'You must be 'born again' or else'!

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Iamimagined

New member
This was the theme of my childhood, slammed into me by my parents and the ghastly Pentecostal church I was forced to attend. I resisted until I was eleven before giving into the pressure of giving 'my heart to Jesus'. I played the part but never felt comfortable with the concept. I never had the slightest feeling any deity was there for me. I had a problem I couldn't share with my parents, and asked Jesus to give me some help with it, but he never came through for me. I drew the obvious conclusion that either he didn't care, or more likely died 2000 years ago. By the time I left home at 19 when I married I had lost my faith, as had my husband.

When our kids were born we left it up to them to decide if they wanted a faith or not with no pressure from us. All three are Christians but not Biblical literalists and liberal in their approach. Religion is never discussed by us.
 
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Iamimagined

New member
The idea of only the 'saved' going to heaven and others, however good they are, going to hell, is very sick indeed. In theory someone as evil as Hitler could have made a deathbed conversion and gone to heaven, whilst an atheist who has done a lot of good in their life would go to hell. The deity would be a psychopath if that was its plan!
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Iamimagined said:
This was the theme of my childhood, slammed into me by my parents and the ghastly Pentecostal church I was forced to attend. I resisted until I was eleven before giving into the pressure of giving 'my heart to Jesus'. I played the part but never felt comfortable with the concept. I never had the slightest feeling any deity was there for me. I had a problem I couldn't share with my parents, and asked Jesus to give me some help with it, but he never came through for me. I drew the obvious conclusion that either he didn't care, or more likely died 2000 years ago. By the time I left home at 19 when I married I had lost my faith, as had my husband.
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I'm sorry you experienced such bad doctrine that would lead you to believe you had to do things and play church. Being born again and giving your heart to Jesus are neither correct nor requirements for salvation. The former is a verse taken out of context to mean something it doesn't and the latter, an empty cliche. Neither had/have the power to save you.
 
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Iamimagined

New member
I know some wonderful Christians who do a lot of good in this world, but I think they would be wonderful even if they were non-believers, it has nothing to do with their faith. I also know a number of Christians who go on about their faith and how they are 'saved', who are pretty unpleasant people, and you wouldn't trust them as far as you could throw them!
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Iamimagined said:
The idea of only the 'saved' going to heaven and others, however good they are, going to hell, is very sick indeed.
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It is our only chance to be delivered from this present evil world (galatians 1:3-4 KJV)
In theory someone as evil as Hitler could have made a deathbed conversion and gone to heaven,
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Amen!

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

whilst an atheist who has done a lot of good in their life would go to hell. The deity would be a psychopath if that was its plan!
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Doing good is not the standard for heaven (Romans 3:10-12 KJV). The righteousness of God is. We all fall short of it (Romans 3:23 KJV). God be thanked that He fixed it so he could be friendly unto us!

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Through Jesus Christ's faith and finished work on the cross in our place (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) the righteousness of God is available unto all!

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

You don't have to go anyhwere or do anything to have the righteousness of God upon you. Salvation is not in doing, but believing. Believe that Christ died for your sins and that He was buried and rose again and God will save you no matter who you are, where you were going or what you were doing while you were there! The righteousness of God will be imputed to you (Romans 4:24 KJV).
 
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Iamimagined

New member
This world is not all bad by any means. I reckon we should make the most of it, and do our best to help others along the way. There is a phrase, 'being so heavenly minded, but no earthly use'. I reckon it is more than likely that when we die we cease to be.
 
OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

New member
SO, WHY ARE YOU HERE ON TOL ? ?

Do you want the Answer to that question?

DO WE CEASE TO BE ???

Answer,

The Technology of the Powers who rule the Universe are Vastly Superior to anything we have.
The Human body contains minerals including IRON which is a Conductor.
From the Time that a child is born, he is being Recorded by God's "Living" Computer .
Plus there are BILLIONS OF ANGELS WATCHING YOU DAILY TO SEE HOW YOU HANDLE LIFE.
AT DEATH YOUR BODY EXPIRES AND THAT LIFE ENERGY IS STORED IN THE COMPUTER
WITH ALL THE MEMORIES AND IS REPRODUCED AT RESURRECTION AND PUT IN AN ENERGIZED BODY .

NEXT QUESTION.
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
Iamimagined said:
"The idea of only the 'saved' going to heaven and others, however good they are..."
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They aren't (Ps 53:3, Mk 10:18).

Iamimagined said:
"...going to hell, is very sick indeed."
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To you (Rom. 2:8, 9). For us, allowing the wicked into heaven would be sickening (Rev. 21:8). Hell wasn't created for you (Matt. 25:41). You've got to step over a lot of Christians to go there (Matt. 10:15). Why have you rejected the light of truth? Ps. 89:15.

Iamimagined said:
"In theory someone as evil as Hitler could have made a deathbed conversion and gone to heaven..."
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You think you're better than him? Ro 3:12. He doesn't blame anyone else (Gen. 3:12). :sozo2: He doesn't claim to be innocent (Matt. 27:24). :eek: He put his trust in Jesus (Matt. 12:17–21). :straight:

You are rejecting an eternal God (Mk 3:29). :reals: Your punishment should be eternal (Matt. 25:46). :burnlib:

Iamimagined said:
"...whilst an atheist who has done a lot of good in their life..."
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They've done no good (Isa 64:6). They are not in Christ (Is. 19:25).

Iamimagined said:
"...would go to hell. The deity would be a psychopath if that was its plan!"
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Is this Bill O'Reilly? :think: We don't refer to God as the deity. :freak: He's got a name (Ex 3:13-14). He's got many names (See: Names of God). God has a plan. He is calling out a people for his namesake. If you don't care for his plan, get your own universe.

Your motto: "I am a figment of my own imagination". :rolleyes:

No, you exist. Ask Descartes. After you accept that, God has something to tell you. He is holy (Rev. 4:8). You are responsible to him (Jn 3:18–20).
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Iamimagined said:
This world is not all bad by any means.
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You're not being honest.
I reckon we should make the most of it, and do our best to help others along the way.
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I am. I'm trying to help you.
There is a phrase, 'being so heavenly minded, but no earthly use'.
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While my affection is set on things above (Colossians 3:1-4 KJV) I am an ambassador for Christ to preach salvation.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

I reckon it is more than likely that when we die we cease to be.
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If you never trust the Lord for salvation believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV before God catches the church up, you will be in for a rude awakening.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

There's no reason for you to perish. Salvation is free unto you.

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


It doesn't cost you a thing.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Iamimagined said:
Posting a lot of Biblical verses, which were written by humans, isn't going to get you anywhere !
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How do you determine what is "good"? Whose standard do you go by? And by what standard do you reject the bible (since it is "written by humans") over and above other works (also "written by humans")?

EDIT : You have to understand that your story of becoming bitter because of your upbringing doesn't clarify much. It is regrettable that you have become that way, but just because you don't like something doesn't mean you are rejecting something that is wrong. If you were constantly berated and warned about being judged by God without realizing that the love of God plays an integral role in salvation, then it is certainly understandable that you would reject what you were taught. But we don't have the benefit of knowing that.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Iamimagined said:
I am not looking for anything. I make a point of challenging extremist Christianity on forums as it can be very abusive as I know to my cost.
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Actually, you are looking. You're looking for the Living God not the god of the religious. That god is a creation of man, and the Living God is the Creator of man.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Iamimagined said:
The idea of only the 'saved' going to heaven and others, however good they are, going to hell, is very sick indeed. In theory someone as evil as Hitler could have made a deathbed conversion and gone to heaven, whilst an atheist who has done a lot of good in their life would go to hell. The deity would be a psychopath if that was its plan!
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Of course that isn't the PLAN. That's religion.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Iamimagined said:
Posting a lot of Biblical verses, which were written by humans, isn't going to get you anywhere !
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You mean it isn't going to get YOU anywhere, and you're correct. But, there will come a day when you WILL cry out to God, and beg for His mercy and grace. Will you wait until you are brought to your knees, or perhaps seek Him out, now, before it is too late? "Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death....."

Acts 17:27
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:​
 
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