Will Rogers/Donald Trump: Times Have Changed!

[Granite]

Oh, come on. You're getting a bit carried away, here. "We" managed to gain a number of important socialist concessions in the years after the Great Depression, including the break up of the larger monopolies and the end of speculative investment banking.

Cosmetic changes that didn't do anything about fundamentally changing the nature of our society and which did nothing to check the power of oligarchs here or anywhere else. Even if what you suggest is true--that we, the people, somehow managed to outwit and outfight the elite for the first time in our nation's history--we're right back where we started, if not in worse shape, than we were then. So if there was anything gained (and that's disputable) it's all been completely lost.

We instituted social security, welfare for the poor, the 40 hour work week, and ended child labor. It was fantastic progress compared to the ruthless greed that controlled this country prior to the depression.

We've always been controlled by ruthless greed. Sophistication hasn't changed that. In the words of C. Montgomery Burns, let the fools have their tartar sauce. These are all good, admirable strides. But they haven't changed anything about the fundamental structure of society. We still work more, play less, earn less, and learn less than the Greatest Generation who earned these "strides" you speak of. We have better toys, true. And as I said earlier our creature comforts have gotten better as the overall standard of living has increased. In the end, however, we're all still serfs.

We haven't squandered all these gains, yet, but we are clearly headed in that direction.

Couldn't disagree more.

I agree. That's exactly why we don't care when our neighbor loses his job, his home, his health, or even his life. Because all we really care about is how we're doing.

Usually people don't get involved until it's personal.

So the question is, how many of us will have to lose everything before there will be enough of us willing to fight back?

Barring a complete collapse, most of us won't lose everything, and we don't have to (nor do the elites need to drop the bottom totally out to get what they need, though they certainly could if it suited them).

This is where you're wrong. The military is still run by us.

What world are you living in and what are you smoking.

And I do not believe it will turn on us even if the government tells it to.

Then you're totally naive.

In every other country where this happens, it only happens after the government manages to create a military that sees itself as being set apart from the civilian population.

No, you simply need enough people in uniform to do as they're trained and follow orders. For crying out loud, man, look around. It's happening and happened. The military as such doesn't need to do the dirty work. They've turned cops into an adjunct of the military in everything but name.

Either by religion, or ethnicity, or by long political and cultural bias … one way or another, they see themselves as their own separate entity within the population of their own countries. Once this idea is developed, and set, the military can be turned against the population if necessary.

See above. We're all potential combatants, all potential threats, all potential terrorists. Most importantly, we aren't them. That in and of itself is enough. Always.

However, 'we the people' better be damn sure that we teach our young people, as they join the military

We could start by making sure they don't join in the first place. Just a thought.

to be very wary of any sort of indoctrination that tries to teach them that they are somehow set apart from the general population.

I think you're living in a kind of bubble.

 

[bybee]

Intelligence is today's necessity. The above average in intelligence who also manage to get educated are today and tomorrows elite.
We do not come into this world as equals. We do not function in this world as equals.

 

[PureX]

Intelligence is today's necessity. The above average in intelligence who also manage to get educated are today and tomorrows elite.
We do not come into this world as equals. We do not function in this world as equals.

In our system it is not intelligence or education that define the ruling elite; it's money. Those who are born into it will very likely keep it regardless of their intelligence or education. And those who manage to acquire wealth in their lifetimes will likely have done so through an intense desire for it, more than anything else. The whole system is designed to enable money to generate more money. And those who have it to make more of it. That's why it's called capitalism. It's a system ruled by the profitable return on capital investment. And the end result can only be that all the wealth ends up in the hands of a very few people. And those people will not be the most intelligent or best educated. They will be the most ruthless, and unscrupulous, and greedy among us.

 

[PureX]

 

[Granite]

Yeah, from now one I'll just use cartoons, PureX, and not waste time actually writing anything anymore.:yawn:

 

[chrysostom]

Yeah, from now one I'll just use cartoons, PureX, and not waste time actually writing anything anymore.:yawn:

and I will not waste time actually clicking on links

 

[quip]

Yeah, from now one I'll just use cartoons, PureX, and not waste time actually writing anything anymore.:yawn:

:idunno: It made it's point...don't you think?

 

[PureX]

and I will not waste time actually clicking on links

:chuckle: Like you ever actually clicked on anyone's link!

 

[PureX]

Yeah, from now one I'll just use cartoons, PureX, and not waste time actually writing anything anymore.:yawn:

That cartoon was not aimed at you. Nor was it in response to your post.

As to your post, it looks like we'll have to just disagree about the severity of the problem. I don't think it's quite as bad as you do. At least I hope it's not. Though I am not at all optimistic about our chances of actually doing anything about it other than continuing to blame each other. We seem to be destined for a new age of servitude to global corporate fiefdoms, and our lives controlled by our new billionaire corporate overlords. And what's doubly sad about this, is that there seems to be a lot of people who really WANT this to be our future! They just hate humanity that much!

 

[Rusha]

Yeah, from now one I'll just use cartoons, PureX, and not waste time actually writing anything anymore.:yawn:

LOL, I read your post and then went back to see what you were talking about.

Hilarious! In regards to Trump, it's fairly accurate.

 

[bybee]

That cartoon was not aimed at you. Nor was it in response to your post.

As to your post, it looks like we'll have to just disagree about the severity of the problem. I don't think it's quite as bad as you do. At least I hope it's not. Though I am not at all optimistic about our chances of actually doing anything about it other than continuing to blame each other. We seem to be destined for a new age of servitude to global corporate fiefdoms, and our lives controlled by our new billionaire corporate overlords. And what's doubly sad about this, is that there seems to be a lot of people who really WANT this to be our future! They just hate humanity that much!

What can be done?

 

[PureX]

What can be done?

We can start by voting every incumbent candidate out of office, regardless of party, every election, until we get some people who will act (not just talk) on real campaign finance reform, and on ending the legalized bribery of our state and federal legislatures.

We have to stop thinking in terms of "us vs them" political party affiliation. Because both parties are totally corrupted, and we're only dividing ourselves by pretending that either of them is better than the other. Vote out every incumbent, every time, regardless of party, until they are willing to take action on our behalf. They will try to pretend they are reformers as soon as they see we're serious, and then they'll try to pass pretend reforms, or small meaningless reforms, but we have to keep throwing them out until they start passing real and effective reforms into law.

And in this election, vote for Bernie Sanders. Forget parties. He's the only candidate of either party that is willing to talk about the real problem of government corruption by wealthy special interests. Maybe he can't or won't do anything to fix the problem, ether, but at least he's willing to speak of it in public, and he's trying to get people to take it seriously. No politician can fix this, we have to start a real groundswell for reform, and then keep pushing for it until we force them to make changes.

 

[bybee]

We can start by voting every incumbent candidate out of office, regardless of party, every election, until we get some people who will act (not just talk) on real campaign finance reform, and on ending the legalized bribery of our state and federal legislatures.

We have to stop thinking in terms of "us vs them" political party affiliation. Because both parties are totally corrupted, and we're only dividing ourselves by pretending that either of them is better than the other. Vote out every incumbent, every time, regardless of party, until they are willing to take action on our behalf. They will try to pretend they are reformers as soon as they see we're serious, and then they'll try to pass pretend reforms, or small meaningless reforms, but we have to keep throwing them out until they start passing real and effective reforms into law.

And in this election, vote for Bernie Sanders. Forget parties. He's the only candidate of either party that is willing to talk about the real problem of government corruption by wealthy special interests. Maybe he can't or won't do anything to fix the problem, ether, but at least he's willing to speak of it in public, and he's trying to get people to take it seriously. No politician can fix this, we have to start a real groundswell for reform, and then keep pushing for it until we force them to make changes.

I think you are naïve. What goes on behind the scenes shall continue to go on. The person's pulling strings have so much power that to go against them probably costs one's life or the lives of family members.
How did a complete unknown like Barak Obama win the presidency? Why didn't Boehner do one thing to oppose Obama? And now Ryan has knuckled under to him. This makes no sense.
Against tremendous public disapproval Obama has released despicable criminals, yet wouldn't lift a finger to assist one of our Marines being fraudulently held in a Mexican jail.
He intends to flood America with violent anti-American Muslim extremists regardless of the overwhelming evidence of the danger this poses.
Social Security remains unchanged despite increasing cost of living. No help for our veterans but an absolute cornucopia of benefits for aliens both legal and illegal.
I see insurrection in the future.

 

[Granite]

That cartoon was not aimed at you. Nor was it in response to your post.

As to your post, it looks like we'll have to just disagree about the severity of the problem. I don't think it's quite as bad as you do. At least I hope it's not. Though I am not at all optimistic about our chances of actually doing anything about it other than continuing to blame each other. We seem to be destined for a new age of servitude to global corporate fiefdoms, and our lives controlled by our new billionaire corporate overlords. And what's doubly sad about this, is that there seems to be a lot of people who really WANT this to be our future! They just hate humanity that much!

I don't think the common man "hates humanity" but I can't believe those at the top of the pyramid are overly fond of us.

 

[bybee]

I don't think the common man "hates humanity" but I can't believe those at the top of the pyramid are overly fond of us.

Those born into the "upper middle class" (most of them that is) haven't a clue what goes on in the life of the common man.
I participate in several different groups in my church and where I live. Those at the top are either incredibly naïve or indifferent.

 

[PureX]

I don't think the common man "hates humanity" but I can't believe those at the top of the pyramid are overly fond of us.

I was more referring to the TOLers who near worship our corporate overlords as the mighty "job-creators" that bring all life and law to the world. They seem to really want the 'big winner/big loser' way of life that comes with unfettered capitalism.

 

[bybee]

I was more referring to the TOLers who near worship our corporate overlords as the mighty "job-creators" that bring all life and law to the world. They seem to really want the 'big winner/big loser' way of life that comes with unfettered capitalism.

You appear to be trapped in an "either/or" world?
You are wise enough to know that is not very productive?

 

[Granite]

I was more referring to the TOLers who near worship our corporate overlords as the mighty "job-creators" that bring all life and law to the world. They seem to really want the 'big winner/big loser' way of life that comes with unfettered capitalism.

On that, we agree. There seems to be a strain, oddly enough, of social darwinism hard at work there.

 

[ClimateSanity]

I think you are naïve. What goes on behind the scenes shall continue to go on. The person's pulling strings have so much power that to go against them probably costs one's life or the lives of family members.
How did a complete unknown like Barak Obama win the presidency? Why didn't Boehner do one thing to oppose Obama? And now Ryan has knuckled under to him. This makes no sense.
Against tremendous public disapproval Obama has released despicable criminals, yet wouldn't lift a finger to assist one of our Marines being fraudulently held in a Mexican jail.
He intends to flood America with violent anti-American Muslim extremists regardless of the overwhelming evidence of the danger this poses.
Social Security remains unchanged despite increasing cost of living. No help for our veterans but an absolute cornucopia of benefits for aliens both legal and illegal.
I see insurrection in the future.

We see eye to eye on this.

 

[PureX]

On that, we agree. There seems to be a strain, oddly enough, of social darwinism hard at work there.

And I think it's partly because these people just don't like their fellow humans very much. I think they take a sick kind of pleasure in the idea of other people being ground into oblivion by poverty. They think they "deserve it". The same way they think women "deserve" to be raped. Or homosexuals "deserve" to be brutalized and ostracized by society.