Aaron the Tall
Member
You made my point exactly - your measure of what is appropriate punishment was all about man, who man is, how long man lives, what is in man's heart...
Why would God need a hell?
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You made my point exactly - your measure of what is appropriate punishment was all about man, who man is, how long man lives, what is in man's heart...
Aaron the Tall
Member
Jesus says what eternal life is - it is not just existence - it is having relationship with Jesus and the Father. John 17:3
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
better schedule an appointment with yer optometrist
You fail to come to him his way (Pr 14:12).
Tell him that to his face (Phil 2:10).
opcorn:
Mickiel
New member
There will be no need for the Christian hell, because we have a God who can change men's hearts. Jer. 24:7, " And I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the Lord." See God is the one who gives the human mind to be conscious of him , that is not a " Self willed thought"; the biblical process is that God is the one who gives the human the will to know him. Phil. 2:13, " For it is God who works in you THE WILL to know him." That's not free will choice, its heavenly manipulation.
[YT="You have made me very angry ~ Marvin Martian”]xdq9B7OZ01s[/YT]
So by your token of reasoning, we don't need to live an earthly life either. God should have put us to heaven all at once.
By your same token, we don't need to believe in Jesus in order to be saved either. If this is your declaration in public and it turns out that your are wrong (as a human you are subject to mistakes), then those who believe what you advocate here will be in hell. You will be the soul murderer leading to their very death.
You are not God, so don't pretend that you are. We are humans, the Bible is one of the crucial sources for us to get information from God with or without comprehending His intention.
We go to heaven (2 Tim. 4:8). :straight: You go to hell (2 Thess. 1:6–10, Matt. 13:36–43). :reals: You've been warned (2 Cor. 5:10, 11). :burnlib:
"Re 21:4 wipe away every tear. Since there will never be a tear in heaven, nothing will be sad, disappointing, deficient, or wrong (cf. Is. 53:4, 5; 1 Cor. 15:54–57).
21:5 true and faithful. Cf. 3:14; 19:11. God always speaks truth (John 17:17).
21:6 the Alpha and the Omega. See note on 1:8. water of life. Cf. 7:17; 22:1, 17. The lasting spiritual water of which Jesus spoke (John 4:13, 14; 7:37, 38; cf. Is. 55:1, 2). him who thirsts. Heaven belongs to those who, knowing their souls are parched by sin, have earnestly sought the satisfaction of salvation and eternal life (cf. Ps. 42:1, 2; Is. 55:1, 2; John 7:37, 38).
21:7 He who overcomes. Cf. 1 John 5:4, 5. Anyone who exercises saving faith in Jesus Christ (see note on 2:7). inherit. The spiritual inheritance all believers will receive (1 Pet. 1:4; cf. Matt. 25:23) is the fullness of the new creation. Cf. Rom. 8:16, 17.
21:8 A solemn, serious warning about the kinds of people who will be outcasts from the new heaven and the new earth in the lake of fire. The NT often goes beyond just citing unbelief in listing character and lifestyle traits of the outcast, so that believers can identify such people (1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Gal. 5:19; cf. John 8:31). sorcerers. See note on 9:21. lake which burns with fire. See note on 19:20. brimstone. See note on 9:17. second death. See note on 20:6." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., pp. 2022–2023). Nashville, TN: Word Pub
Mickiel
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You are not listing my reasoning, your simply listing yours. I gave the scriptures, I gave my reasoning deduced from scripture. The only reason the Christian hell exist in their minds, is because they need something to do with sinners who reject God; so they created this eternal place of suffering. A place to herd these people who are not conscious of God. But if the scripture teaches that God can give a human a heart to believe in him and serve him, then those people you Christians are canceling out from salvation can be saved, because God can manipulate their will to believe in him; and that's bible, its not my reasoning.
I am sorry to upset you, but your hell is just going to have to give those sinners back.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
"Ps 1:3 He shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that brings forth its fruit in its season, whose leaf also shall not wither; and whatever he does shall prosper.
God loves to bless His obedient children. He moves out ahead of them, preparing the way, bringing them into a good and pleasant place. He doesn’t promise lack of trials, but He does promise eventual victory." Stanley, C. F. (2005). The Charles F. Stanley life principles Bible: New King James Version (Ps 1:3). Nashville, TN: Nelson Bibles.
Mickiel
New member
See religion is teaching hell, and they are teaching free will, and that men are " Free willing themselves into eternal hell. In other words they are teaching that people are stupid enough to freely submit to eternal torture. And that God is rewarding their stupidity by allowing hell to exist. And there are scriptures that seem to support this madness. So its an easy subject for satan to deceive; and satan has done a sizzling job of deception on this.
First of all, God would not allow humans to freely condemn themselves , just to honor their will system.
Because God knows we are born foolish. Jer.10:23, "O Lord I know that the way of man is not in himself, it is not in man to direct himself." And God knows this. Why would God allow us to decide our eternal future and we don't even know our way? This is WHY people reject God, they don't know what they are doing.
You don't condemn people for being natural.
First of all, God would not allow humans to freely condemn themselves , just to honor their will system.
Because God knows we are born foolish. Jer.10:23, "O Lord I know that the way of man is not in himself, it is not in man to direct himself." And God knows this. Why would God allow us to decide our eternal future and we don't even know our way? This is WHY people reject God, they don't know what they are doing.
You don't condemn people for being natural.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
of course they are
we saw a little foreshadowing of that in 2008 when many people demonstrated that they were stupid enough to freely submit to four years of torture by electing bammy
Stupidity :idunno: evil
“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’” Lk 16:19–31
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Mickiel
New member
The whole way of viewing salvation is " A belief system", a way many have traditionally been taught. Salvation has morphed into what people have been taught, more so than what God intended. Instead of salvation being a God thing, now its a people taught thing. This is how satan changes the thought of man, get them off of what God thinks, and get them to think for themselves. Especially where the word of God is concerned. The devil , like a Trojan horse, parks himself inside of churches and works from the inside out, and has done this since Adam, so he has gotten better at doing this confusion thing; dressing confusion to appear like intelligent biblical interpretation.
The devil does not want Christians to see that Jesus is " Calling unbelievers, more than he is calling believers." The righteous mindset can't handle that truth, because its righteousness needs to massage itself and place itself as " The only one's being called." Luke 5:32, Jesus teaching something that believers in God are just primed to ignore; " I came NOT to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." In other words, Jesus did NOT come to earth for HIS churches, NO! He came here for unbelievers, so the believers who selfishly covet Jesus, just can't hear this truth, because they are condemning those people Jesus came for. This is why I have a hard time here on site, because I am snatching people from hell, and those who put them in hell, don't want to let them go. They want them to stay in hell, because they have been conditioned in condemnation, not this supreme salvation.
So its a fight for sinners.
The devil does not want Christians to see that Jesus is " Calling unbelievers, more than he is calling believers." The righteous mindset can't handle that truth, because its righteousness needs to massage itself and place itself as " The only one's being called." Luke 5:32, Jesus teaching something that believers in God are just primed to ignore; " I came NOT to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." In other words, Jesus did NOT come to earth for HIS churches, NO! He came here for unbelievers, so the believers who selfishly covet Jesus, just can't hear this truth, because they are condemning those people Jesus came for. This is why I have a hard time here on site, because I am snatching people from hell, and those who put them in hell, don't want to let them go. They want them to stay in hell, because they have been conditioned in condemnation, not this supreme salvation.
So its a fight for sinners.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
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