Why would God need a hell?

[Caino]

You are talking about the Urantia Book Jesus. You do not accept the Biblical Jesus. If you follow a 'different' Jesus, was I lying? :doh:

The Jesus reported in the Bible books and the Urantia Book Jesus are the same. There is only 1 Jesus. The Urantia Book Jesus was written about by celestials who were on the earth before, during and after the times of Christ. The conflicting and edited gospel accounts of the Bible were well intentioned and written largely after Paul's remixed Christian message had begun to sway peoples recollection and understanding of Jesus.

Jesus taught his original gospel long before the cross. His gospel was what the Jews would be teaching from Jerusalem today if they had not rejected it. So, the light went to others and has suffered from the preconceived religious baggage of religions outside of Israel.


I do remember a coward ran off to the mods because he or she couldn't stand the truth. The Jews banned Jesus and hen his followers, I take it for what it truly is.

 

[serpentdove]

...I knew I needed to change, couldn't change, Thanks be to the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 7:24

And you responded (Ac 17:27). Awesome.

 

[Lon]

The Jesus reported in the Bible books and the Urantia Book Jesus are the same. There is only 1 Jesus. The Urantia Book Jesus was written about by celestials who were on the earth before, during and after the times of Christ. The conflicting and edited gospel accounts of the Bible were well intentioned and written largely after Paul's remixed Christian message had begun to sway peoples recollection and understanding of Jesus.

"Apparent" contradiction vs. the absurd:

122:5.5 (1349.1) The families of both Joseph and Mary were well educated for their time. Joseph and Mary were educated far above the average for their day and station in life. He was a thinker; she was a planner, expert in adaptation and practical in immediate execution. Joseph was a black-eyed brunet; Mary, a brown-eyed well-nigh blond type.

"blonde-type" :rotfl: Tell me U-rantia isn't intentional comedy/parody, and you guys think this stuff is serious? :chuckle:

123:4.1 (1361.1) This was, indeed, an eventful year in Jesus’ life. Early in January a great snowstorm occurred in Galilee. Snow fell two feet deep, the heaviest snowfall Jesus saw during his lifetime and one of the deepest at Nazareth in a hundred years.

:nono: Jerusalem, Bethlehem, maybe.

124:1.1 (1366.2) Though it could hardly be said that Jesus was ever seriously ill, he did have some of the minor ailments of childhood this year, along with his brothers and baby sister.

Said the school nurse....

124:1.2 (1366.3) School went on and he was still a favored pupil, having one week each month at liberty, and he continued to divide his time about equally between trips to neighboring cities with his father, sojourns on his uncle’s farm south of Nazareth, and fishing excursions out from Magdala.

:doh: Said his supposedly 'public school' teacher! (non-existent). Of course Mormons think Jesus visited North America, so why not U-rant calling it rural Carolina!?

Yeah, let's all read this book! :yawn:

Jesus taught his original gospel long before the cross. His gospel was what the Jews would be teaching from Jerusalem today if they had not rejected it. So, the light went to others and has suffered from the preconceived religious baggage of religions outside of Israel.

Proof? (none, just so we are on the same page)
This boils down to simply this: Preference. You may say the same thing about me, but instead of 'correcting' the bible to fit my own self-centered world, I was instead trying to figure out how not to be self-centered and selfish and fit into HIS.

I do remember a coward ran off to the mods because he or she couldn't stand the truth. The Jews banned Jesus and hen his followers, I take it for what it truly is.

Ah. Liar, and now coward. Any other choice names you'd like to toss out there while I am here?

The UB doesn't claim to be the Word of God neither does the Bible, in fact the Bible says the Son is the Word and that Gods will can be found in the heart.

▲This isn't following Jesus Christ, it is following your own inner sin-soaked man and calling him "Jesus"▲ You don't follow the same Jesus I do. I have to be conformed to His image, not Him mine. You were banned for a genuine blasphemy against the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Lon]

I've already written extensively on the subject of ECT, from many different perspectives, links amply supplied. If you'd like to read those and discuss the points therein you're welcome to engage me in a dialogue.

You're assumption that I "hate scripture" is misconstrued, just because I do not hold the Bible to be the only inspired book in the world and draw from a broad spectrum of schools and religious traditions. When addressing specific passages I will research and expound as well as I can regarding translation and 'interpretation'.

Lastly, my exploration and writings on the Urantia Papers represent a varied and speculative discourse on various subjects discussed therein and these commentaries are available for any reader to read in our UB thread

My history of threads and posts here shows a wide variety of study of various subjects. I'm an 'eclectic'. Identifying as a 'theosophist' is a more liberal venture in its philosophical spirit and respect for universal truths and principles. A 'theosophist' is a student or lover of 'divine wisdom'.

You are free to ignore all you wish, but as long as I've been here I've held my own and continue to freely express and expound as a free and liberal spirit. I will question any belief or doctrine that is unsound or unreasonable and dissect it from many dimensions. Don't forget, all opinions, beliefs, assumptions, points of view are subject to change.

:nono: None of it. You are free to over-inflate, over-esteem, over-assert as you like. :wave:

 

[Lon]

Transcendence is forbidden knowledge, and for good reason seeing it frees the mind from the worlds mental slave markets that buy and sell Doctrinally drugged Souls through paper stocks and bonds.

:doh: It is wishful thinking and believing Jonathan Livingston Seagull is a theology book :dizzy: This new-age gunk is most often accompanied by drug-heads past or present, who have damaged brain cells and opened themselves up to the great deceiver "you will NOT surely die."

Er, yes, you will. God is not mocked. You and I will reap what we sow unless we enter the narrow gate.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

:nono: Exactly backwards. Before I came to Christ, I was of your opinion (I was seven and that should tell you something about your own belief).

Basically, there are 2 assumptions 1) that God talks to us/through us, as the univeralist spiritualist assumes and espouses.

Opposite of this is 2) God speaks to us rather extrinsically because we are separated by God because of sin.

I knew when I was seven that I misbehaved and was selfish. I knew I had sinned both against God and other people. There was no question at that time. I knew I wasn't a 'good' kid. That doesn't mean the world would have thought me bad, I was only 7. When I heard that Christ died to forgive our sin and remove it, that we could be new creations, that Jesus buried sin for all who believe and gave life to all who believe, that was a message from God, nothing from inside myself. I was the opposite of the one who thinks God talks to us and we are 'okay' just the way we are. I knew I needed to change, couldn't change, Thanks be to the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 7:24

Are you ever going to quit biting on that forbidden fruit? That is a big part of the downfall. Not knowing when to stop. We've condemned ourselves before we ever give ourselves a chance. That's the way the enemy likes it. It's nice and easy and we will think it's normal to live our lives without self-worth. In fact we justify it upon ourselves because we think it's more important to be right about our beliefs. Just give up on it now and face it before you make it any worse.

 

[Caino]

"Apparent" contradiction vs. the absurd:



Proof? (none, just so we are on the same page)
This boils down to simply this: Preference. You may say the same thing about me, but instead of 'correcting' the bible to fit my own self-centered world, I was instead trying to figure out how not to be self-centered and selfish and fit into HIS.



Ah. Liar, and now coward. Any other choice names you'd like to toss out there while I am here?
▲This isn't following Jesus Christ, it is following your own inner sin-soaked man and calling him "Jesus"▲ You don't follow the same Jesus I do. I have to be conformed to His image, not Him mine. You were banned for a genuine blasphemy against the Lord Jesus Christ.

Great quotes from the Urantia Revelation, it's a pitty you are stuck in the past and unreachable. You are no different than the theology lawyers who hated the God manifest in the person of Liberal Jesus because he did not fit their expectations based on the scripture books they created. So Jesus comes again in the true story of his life but he doesn't fit Lon's concept.

 

[Lon]

Are you ever going to quit biting on that forbidden fruit? That is a big part of the downfall. Not knowing when to stop.

God is NOT within you, He is external from us UNTIL one becomes a new creation in Christ. Sorry, not my rules. I will embrace them and espouse them.

This new-age stuff is, again, often the result of drug and alcohol abuse on feeble and broken minds. I've seen it time and again, of most of the Buddhist/Christian people I've met. They are so mind-gone they don't realize how very badly they've damaged their 'logic' ability. This is why, I believe, drug use and abuse is related to demonology.

If Christians speak Christianease, at least the majority on the planet recognize the language. I'm not sure what you mean by biting the forbidden fruit. What do you imagine it is? By your words, you'd have me "discover the God within me" nonsense. He isn't me, He is separate. The Spiritualist will never understand that. He/she will continue to think that "God" is the universe. He is not. He is apart from His universe and He takes great pains in scripture to remind us He is apart from us. Nobody that has ever read his/her bible misunderstand this. It is very clear. You either accept it or correct/reject (same thing) it according to 'your' own desire. Spiritualism is ALWAYS self-worship, not God-worship. Always.

 

[Lon]

Great quotes from the Urantia Revelation, it's a pitty you are stuck in the past and unreachable. You are no different than the theology lawyers who hated the God manifest in the person of Liberal Jesus because he did not fit their expectations based on the scripture books they created. So Jesus comes again in the true story of his life but he doesn't fit Lon's concept.

Ah, the classic cult fall-back: "Pharisee!" Hint: I'd rather be the Pharisee who Jesus told His disciples to "listen to" than a lost heathen/false teacher who we are told to "have nothing to do with."

Ananias and Sapphira, for lying about a bit of money they kept for themselves, died at the Apostle Peter's feet. Your religion has no understanding of such righteous demands. Your accusation would think Peter and God, the Pharisees, such is the cult mentality, always turning it around and thinking the opposite of what scripture says, even "correcting it where it is 'wrong.'" Glad after years of drug riddling your mind, you feel qualified. I don't feel qualified to 'edit' God.

"I wish" to God, you would hear that Christ died for sinners. That the scriptures are the ONLY infallible word of God. "I wish" you'd be rational and reasonable to hear of the loving kindness of God, who sent His only Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life." Wasn't that the very thing you were banned for? You said the blood of Jesus did nothing, remember? Hebrew 9:22 or was that another ban?

 

[Mickiel]

Are you ever going to quit biting on that forbidden fruit? That is a big part of the downfall. Not knowing when to stop..

Oh Prizebeatz1, This is one of your greatest quotes, if you don't mind, I've got to use it in the future ; simply profound!

 

[Lon]

Oh Prizebeatz1, This is one of your greatest quotes, if you don't mind, I've got to use it in the future ; simply profound!

Er, not unless you explain it. Sin and selfishness are the essence of the fall. "Finding God within" is then a promotion and continuation of 'self' and "you will be like gods!" and "no such thing as sin." All of them lies from the serpent.


What were the lies in the garden?

Serpent: " You will not surely die "
Mickiel: "You will not surely die."

Serpent: "Your eyes will be opened"
Freelight: "Your eyes will be opened."


Serpent: "You will be like God as a god"
Prizebeatz: "You will be like God, as a god."

Serpent: "You'll have real knowledge"
Caino: "You'll have real knowledge."


In truth then, the one remaining in sin, is the one yet slaving to his sin nature, happy to be there, not needing a savior, not understanding the significance of the cross.

Not one of you preaches the cross. Interesting, no? It is just you and me after that, and I'm not so sure about you. I needed saving.

 

[Mickiel]

In Phil. 2:10, "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, the things in heaven, in earth, and in the grave; that every mouth should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the Glory of the Father." I see this as the uncompromised future of all humanity, because why would a great God have it any other way?

I mean, obviously religion wants it another limited way; so its on, either God gets his way, or religion does.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

God is NOT within you, He is external from us UNTIL one becomes a new creation in Christ. Sorry, not my rules. I will embrace them and espouse them.

This new-age stuff is, again, often the result of drug and alcohol abuse on feeble and broken minds. I've seen it time and again, of most of the Buddhist/Christian people I've met. They are so mind-gone they don't realize how very badly they've damaged their 'logic' ability. This is why, I believe, drug use and abuse is related to demonology.

If Christians speak Christianease, at least the majority on the planet recognize the language. I'm not sure what you mean by biting the forbidden fruit. What do you imagine it is? By your words, you'd have me "discover the God within me" nonsense. He isn't me, He is separate. The Spiritualist will never understand that. He/she will continue to think that "God" is the universe. He is not. He is apart from His universe and He takes great pains in scripture to remind us He is apart from us. Nobody that has ever read his/her bible misunderstand this. It is very clear. You either accept it or correct/reject (same thing) it according to 'your' own desire. Spiritualism is ALWAYS self-worship, not God-worship. Always.

You are identified with the enemy. The personality has an unconscious desire to separate from God. It doesn't want to admit that it is avoiding what is infinite and eternal. That would make it bad and wrong and it can't quit biting the fruit of judgement. It conde

 

[Lon]

You are identified with the enemy. The personality has an unconscious desire to separate from God. It doesn't want to admit that it is avoiding what is infinite and eternal. That would make it bad and wrong and it can't quit biting the fruit of judgement. It conde

Sorry, no. You've bought the serpent's lie. God is not within you. He is a separate being. He is the Creator and Master of all. I know the id hates dying to self, but you've turned it around. Satan is both deceived, and a deceiver, he believes what he sells. You do too.

The promise of the Spirit, who 'will be in you' is exclusively to those surrendering their will to God and abdicating the throne of 'me me me.'

 

[Mickiel]

Er, not unless you explain it. Sin and selfishness are the essence of the fall. .

There is no such thing as " The Fall", Adam did not fall in Eden, he was put out standing up. And I think he served God for over 900 years. Adam was set up by God to do everything he did, or really did not do, because Adam did nothing while Eve confronted satan. He said nothing; he just ate that fruit, that's all he did wrong.

Committing one sin is not some " Dramatic Fall", it was the will of God.

 

[Lon]

There is no such thing as " The Fall", Adam did not fall in Eden, he was put out standing up. And I think he served God for over 900 years. Adam was set up by God to do everything he did, or really did not do, because Adam did nothing while Eve confronted satan. He said nothing; he just ate that fruit, that's all he did wrong.

Committing one sin is not some " Dramatic Fall", it was the will of God.

You are, a functional atheist. Interesting that you 'spiritualize' it. You can just jump right to the atheist moniker and avoid this all in the future. It won't need to take pages and pages of your 'pick-n-choose' spirituality shopping. The "god of you" is going to take care of yourself. You functionally deny any other God.

 

[Mickiel]

You are, a functional atheist. Interesting that you 'spiritualize' it. You can just jump right to the atheist moniker and avoid this all in the future. It won't need to take pages and pages of your 'pick-n-choose' spirituality shopping. The "god of you" is going to take care of yourself. You functionally deny any other God.

I have picked and choose over 831 scriptures in this thread , each one of them genuine bible. I recognize you as a believer in God, you can't see me as one because your religion has other believers in plastic groups, because they are not buying the Christian themes. So you judge them into your hell, because its what you desire to do. And I think Christianity helps create many Atheist, because they may be shopping for some truth, just not buying it from condemning people like yourself.

 

[Lon]

I have picked and choose over 831 scriptures in this thread , each one of them genuine bible.

1) Links to verses do not count
2) The verses used in thread do not support universalism
3) Many of your verse (I counted, remember?) admittedly weren't about universalism. That means, between you and me, you don't have that many. Sorry, no. Trying to 'force' a text is wrong and sinful. Satan pulled verses and lifted them before Jesus in exactly this manner. Jesus gave scriptural responses to show Satan he was wrong.

I recognize you as a believer in God, you can't see me as one because your religion has other believers in plastic groups, because they are not buying the Christian themes. So you judge them into your hell, because its what you desire to do. And I think Christianity helps create many Atheist, because they may be shopping for some truth, just not buying it from condemning people like yourself.

When either you are I are so opinionated that we are in the way of God, we are 'god' in His place and in the way. I will say it again and again: It doesn't matter what you or I say, it matters what God says. That's it. Most Christians are not 'stupid' or 'duped.' They honestly do not see the scriptures the way you see them and many of them have read their bibles multiple times. I have. The question then is, while we are seeking Jesus, honestly, fervently, why is it that there are only a handful of Universalists on the planet? How did 'sentimentality' take the place of Revelation and instruction from God? Will you be instructed if God says otherwise? Yes or no?

 

[freelight]

Answer the question

Answer the question

Because you say so? You are trying to emote your way. "Christianity and the Bible offend me, I think I, a mere man, will find something more to my liking."

I first came to Christ, had not a lot of idea about hell, but as it related to Catholics. Later, I had to deal with scriptures, but my embrace of Christ was already resolved, regardless. Atheists and you weren't resolved. You have to make-your-own and that's sad. I know, for a fact, that I'm just a man and incapable of defining a God who isn't me. I am a creature in this universe and will remain but a creature. I've no desire to be god or to then try to be god to another. It may look like that, as I taut a definition I believe comes from God concerning Himself, and that demands I (and you) meet Him on His terms, but don't mistake that for me trying to be god or your god. I am trying to take Him as He is, not change Him.

Let's ask again,.......Would you Lon torture your children forever and ever condemning them to endless punishment for all eternity because they failed to love you or meet your standard of righteousness or for any reason whatever?. That is what is immoral and heinous. The concept of ECT is horrendous on principle alone and rejected by anyone having some intelligence, reason and a conscience. Now you can answer the question if you have the intellectual honesty and moral fortitude to do so.

 

[freelight]

:nono: None of it. You are free to over-inflate, over-esteem, over-assert as you like. :wave:

Then you choose to be an ignoramus and refuse to read my points, consider them and make an intelligent reasoned response in defense of your traditional misconception of 'hell' and pre-packaged version of 'God'.

It is your presumed caricature of 'God' and depraved sense of justice (with no mercy) that clouds your vision. 'Conditional immortality' trumps ECT with better scriptural support, while Universalism also has passage support, both views rejecting the sadistic concept of ECT.