Why would God need a hell?
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Mickiel
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Nonsense, I see belief in punishing humans forever, or the eternal death of them, as biblical head hunting, looking to view humans as garbage to be disposed of. Your seeking the truth with a pre conceived mindset of eliminating people YOU think don't deserve to be changed. I call that headhunting, because the nature of satan is to destroy humans who obey God, or disobey God; when a believer in God takes on that mindset, I think its satanic. All the scriptures on forgiveness, all the scriptures on the mercy and grace of God, is simply not enough to appease that torturing eliminating mindset. Its strong in its power to condemn, because the spirit of satan is backing it up.
Man, I could give scripture after scripture, ( and I have been, well over 600 in this thread), that show how those sinful and murderous people who you want to believe that God and Christ can do nothing with, are saved from the inching judgmental murderous mind set of certain believers in God and satan.
This is for those awful sinners you think need to be eliminated; this is for you unbelievers that this man is talking about; He is not your judge, he has absolutely nothing to do with your salvation. Philippians 3:21, now read this with me, and stop paying attention to these believers in God who are condemning you; this is talking about Jesus power to change you, even against your will if you just cannot believe in him; he loves you that much; " Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body,( this is the biblical definition of being born again, not that stuff Christianity is teaching), according to the working whereby he is ABLE to SUBDUE ALL things to himself." That's what is going to happen to you and all who reject Christ; he is going to " Subdue you", he is not going to ask for your choice, or give you the will to be stupid and condemn yourself; he loves you FAR too much!
You are NOT in the hands of Christianity or any other condemning religion, your in Christ hands. And trust me, you'd best be glad that you are not in the hands of the followers of God.
csuguy
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I don't view anyone as human garbage to be disposed of. The loss of anyone is a sad thing. Anyone who rejoices at the destruction of one of God's children clearly lacks the love of God in their own heart. Nevertheless, ultimately neither we nor God can allow sin/evil deeds to go unchecked. Forgiveness and repentance are the preferred solution, but if they refuse to repent then they are left with destruction.
Wrong - I don't want anyone to be eliminated. You are the one with preconcieved views - trying to force these motives onto me.
It is true that anyone CAN turn from sin and be saved. That is certainly the desirable thing to happen, it is what God wants and what we want. But the reality is that not everyone repents - even the majority won't repent. They love the darkness and hate the light.
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?
Mickiel
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That's what you say, that's what you want, its what you believe; Here's what the Great God says; Isaiah 45:22-23, God himself speaking, which superseeds anything else in scripture, anything else the followers of God are teaching and saying to the world;" Look unto me, ( don't look to religion), and be you saved, all the ends of the earth, ( God is including everyone in this), For I am God and there is none else, I have SWORN by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness and shall not return to me empty, that unto me EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY mouth shall confess to me!" Glory! Man I'm glad, so glad that God swore this Holy Vow.
There is no free will in this, God is not asking humans to decide or repent or submit to him, he is going to force them all to submit and believe in him and serve him. This is the biblical supreme destiny of ALL humans , not even Christ can alter this Holy promise from God! This is how God is. Its how it is in heaven. God does ask for obedience , he gives no choices , there is no other way but his, there are no alternatives! Its God's way or nothing. Period!
Christ, the angels, satan and demons, the awesome 24 Elders, all are completely submissive to God, they are given no choices in the matter. And they don't want anything other than God, because they know how God really is. He rules with absolute Love! God is not going to loose any of his children, that is an illusion. And God is NOT giving any choices, that is an illusion about him.
God GET'S his way! Job 23:13, " For he is of one mind and who can turn him? what his soul desires that he does." When it comes to human salvation, God is of one mind, there is only one future for humanity, we all will submit to him. What does this awesome being desire? 1 Tim. 2:3-4, " For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires that ALL men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth." THAT is what God desires, and that is what he is going to do.
It may not be good and acceptable to the followers of God for him to save all, but they have nothing to do with this. Its not in the hands of biblical headhunters.
Zeke
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Mark/Marque/surname/straw-man/artificially created person, all the same thing that Identify you as being a legal slave already caught in that fictions power over you, raised under the rules of obedience that allows you to buy and sell through its (name) use. The ruse/bet is that you will never uncover that truth because you are distracted/blinded and if you do, you won't stop using it because the choice is to dire to honestly face.
Trained to look into some futuristic period when you are already under its power.
csuguy
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You are cherry picking the scriptures for things that might support you if we ignored all else that scripture says. You trust the scriptures as God's Word? Good. Then believe this:
2 Thess 1:6-10 For after all it is only just [c]for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted [d]and to us as well [e]when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with [f]His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified [g]in His [h]saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.
You are disingenuous Mikiel - you are cherry picking the scriptures to try to make them say what you want
Ask Mr. Religion
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This is all nonsense. You seem to think eternal punishment in Hell is something you have seen on television or something. You have been watching Supernatural too much or believe Dante's Inferno actually describes Hell or The Lake of Fire accurately. Let's not speculate and rest in the knowledge that undergoing the everlasting presence of the wrath of God is punishment enough.
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way 2 go
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Luk 16:23 And in hell ...
Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
Lon
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So you are okay with 2000 years of suffering? Is, or is not your 'sensibility' your god? Looks like it to me...
See way2go just above me, hades is the side where he is/was. The thief on the cross was with Jesus in 'paradise' - the bosom of Abraham (other side).
You still act very much like an ignorant/arrogant kid, Cs. You need to knock this garbage off. You are incredibly arrogant with your elders and betters.
Mickiel
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I have used well over 600 scriptures in this thread, I keep count for people like you who like to accuse with no reason. If I can cherry pick that many scriptures, then the bible is a cherry tree.
Mickiel
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The wrath of God is his reaction to sin, sinners have nothing to do with his wrath, neither do humans in the heat of sin. God knows that people don't know what they are doing , the Christians just think people deserve to be punished forever, because that's what THEY would do with them. I don't get my picture of your hell from Dante's Inferno, I got it from what I am doing now; talking to Christians. Eternal hell punishing comes from two minds, the mind of satan, and the mind of Christianity.
I don't care how anyone tries to " Soften eternal hell", its a mindless insane merciless ungodly horror.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Are you an annihilationist? You deny the doctrine of Hell taught in Scripture?
If the sinner has despised and rejected eternal happiness, is there any reason why he should complain against the justice of eternal misery? If there is an infinite evil in sin - as there is - then infinite punishment is its due reward.
Do you think anyone in Hell is going to righteously repent? If that were to happen then that person would readily agree that they are exactly where they need to be. The gnashing of teeth of those in Hell means they continue to lift their fist Godward in defiance of Him. Their continued hatred of God (as they so did in their temporal lives) merits their continued presence therein. Non-believers hate God with every breath, thought, word, and deed. None deserve mercy. That even one person is saved by God is enough to praise Him.
You seem to think if a man sinned for 80 years, then he should only get 80 years of punishment. Friend, if sinners can be saved by satisfying Divine justice in enduring the penalty due to sin, Christ need not have died.
"Depart from Me, ye cursed into everlasting fire" (Matthew 25:41).
Do you actually think it plausible that the Son of God would pronounce this awful malediction upon those who are merely appointed to a season of disciplinary chastisement, after which they will be forever with him in perfect bliss?
If it is true that the damned in the Lake of Fire are still the objects of Divine benevolence; that as the creatures of His hand, the Lord still looks upon them with the most benign regard, and the unquenchable fire is nothing more than a rod in the hand of a wise and loving Father, I ask, How can this be harmonized with the manner in which Scripture uniformly speaks of unbelievers?
God has not left us in ignorance of how He regards those who have openly and persistently defied Him. Again and again the Scripture makes known to us the solemn fact that God looks upon the wicked as cumberers of the earth, as repugnant to Him. The wicked are represented as dross not gold (Psalm 119:119); as worthless chaff (Matthew 3:12); as vipers (Matthew 12:34); as vessels unto dishonor and vessels of wrath (Romans 9:21, 22); as those who are to be made the Lord's footstool (1 Corinthians 15:2 7) as trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots (Jude 12) and therefore fit for nothing but the fire; as those who will be spued out of the Lord's mouth (Revelation 3:16), that is, as objects of revulsion.
The teachings expressed in the above passages (and more) cannot be harmonized with the view that God still looks upon them in love and entertains only the most tender regards for them.
You need to really think about what you are implying. Explain yourself.
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csuguy
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Have you kept track of the number of scriptures that contradict you?
The bible can be treated as a cherry tree by unscrupulous people who don't care about the truth. So you must persevere in your studies to find the truth and not be led astray.
csuguy
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It says Hades, not hell. This is one of those bits that gets lost in translation. The OT spoke of Sheol, which is simply a general place for the dead - though there is a divide therein for the good and bad according to Jewish Tradition. Hades is the Greek equivalent and so that's what it is translated into. Eventually the dead are brought forth for judgement for the lake of fire (the second death) or eternal life in a new heaven and earth.
Yes anyone who worships the beast and its image and receives its mark can expect such a punishment. This is not everyone sent into the lake of fire, however. The beast is a specific entity that appears in the end times.
Mickiel
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Yes, one of the ways I keep from being led astray at a minimum is to not listen to any Christians.
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The favorite of the annihilationist who fail to understand the intermediate state of the damned, wherein the souls of the wicked are cast into hell (Luke 16:23-24; Acts 1:25, Jude 6-7). Hell is a place to wait for the final judgment and there conscious torments therein will efface their empty enjoyments.
The annihilationists also fail to grasp that the eternal state of the damned, having been raised up (Acts 24:15; John 5:29) in dishonor with their souls united with their bodies (Job 19:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:42-44) forever (Job 19:26-27, 1 Cor. 15:42-44), is the lake of fire, wherein the wicked, who know not God, and obey not the gospel of Jesus Christ, are be cast into eternal torments, and be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power. This is the second death.
The annihilationists fail to grasp the distinctions between hades/hell (the place of the dead, Luke 16:22,23) and gehenna (the place of eternal fire, Matt. 5:22; Mark 9:43,44).
Those in this terrible states of eternal punishment in gehenna, the lake of fire, are a standing monument to the glory of God's holy, infinite vengeance (Rom 9:22-23).
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Mickiel
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Anyway lets get back to the word and this good news. I keep screaming to you unbelievers and Atheist , that your future is set with God, you are not the fodder of the hell hounds. You have a God who both loves you and includes you AND is personally aware of you; he made sure that you exist. In 2 Corinth. 5:19, get your bible, "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the WORLD, ( which includes everyone, even those who reject him, especially those who reject him), unto himself, NOT imputing their sins against them."
Hey, this is big, God and Christ NOT COUNTING the sins of the whole world against them. Isn't it strange that some followers of God and Christ, are counting the worlds sins against them. They claim that people cannot change, like they did. That people cannot repent, like they repented. They unbelievers are not worthy, like they are worthy. The giving out of this gospel of truth has NOT been committed to them. You are free of them.
You are not condemned, there is no condemnation, its a fantasy.
Hey, this is big, God and Christ NOT COUNTING the sins of the whole world against them. Isn't it strange that some followers of God and Christ, are counting the worlds sins against them. They claim that people cannot change, like they did. That people cannot repent, like they repented. They unbelievers are not worthy, like they are worthy. The giving out of this gospel of truth has NOT been committed to them. You are free of them.
You are not condemned, there is no condemnation, its a fantasy.
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