Correct-objective revelation of what is right/wrong, vs. the walk in fulfilling it.
Why the Righteous Man Does Not Need Rules, Laws or Religion, 1 Timothy 1:9.
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Correct-objective revelation of what is right/wrong, vs. the walk in fulfilling it.
What is amazing to me is that there is something to do but if I didn't know anything to do my father or boss might expect me to do it or to do something that is right anyway, even if I haven't been told what it is. If you have been told the difference between right and wrong you should be able to make decisions on your own. Wisdom comes with the abundance of counselors. God's Law is good, perfect, right. That a man fails or breaks it or sins or transgresses is a failure on his part, even if he wasn't told. If a person is told they are accountable. Each and every person must become responsible. Responsibility is doing what is right. If you know the Law you can be guilty of breaking it. If you don't know the Law you may observe it anyway. God's Law is for Israel and the whole world. We observe it because it is God's instruction. It is more than morals or morality where we should know and know to do what is right. God's Law is moral. It includes for Israel and the Nations many things to do, different things that we can do. I understand that the New Covenant is for the House of Israel and the House of Judah. See 1 Corinthians 11:25. It is written on minds and hearts in Yeshua Messiah, Yeshua HaMashiach. Is it for Gentiles and Gentile converts as well? There is no requirement for circumcision. But to observe Passover and be a part of Israel there is. Circumcision is still a commandment of God. Then whether circumcised or uncircumcised keep the requirement of the law. We have the gospel, and it is not opposed to God's Law. No one is saved by works or the works of the Law. We should obey God and His commandments, even those found in the Law, if we are to be found in obedience to God and Jesus Christ. Obedience and works? Obedience. Faith. Works. Good works. Good deeds. What are the works of the law? That we cannot be saved by? What should we do even though we are not saved by doing it?
Shalom.
Jacob
You know very little about spiritual things.
The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and teacher, not the law, John 16:13-15.
glorydaz
Well-known member
No comprende.
Do you have a scripture that says this?
JonahofAkron
New member
My bad. I fixed it. I asked if we thought we should follow Paul if he contradicts Messiah.
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More evasion.
No, that is more made up mumbo jumbo, as you just fabricate "doctrine." Scripture knows no such distinction,thing as "spirituallu....but physically, ..." You are either a sinner, or you are not, deceiver.
You said that you were a sinner, Pate, and thus, as I predicted, your response is not one, is evasion, a sound byte, that means nothing. You said that only sinners need the law, quoting 1 Timothy 1:9 KJV, over, and over,Pate. You said that believers do not need the law-only sinners. You said that you were a sinner, arguing against others, on other threads, that we are not saints, that we are sinners. There is no "in between," so stuff your making up this jazz about "spiritually we are not sinners, but physically we are sinners." That is more of your demonic, dementia "reasoning."
Again...More meltdown into the world of confusion, deceit, diminished capacity,for this wolf. He has been caught, in another lie, contradiction, twisted, demonic "reasoning." To wit-He argues:
Thus, he continues to argue, that the law was abolished for Christians, but not for sinners, quoting 1 Timothy 1:9 KJV, dozens of times in recent days, asserting that the law only applies to sinners, not Christians. He asserts that Christians are not under the judgment of the law, because it no longer exists, citing "Where there is no law there is no transgression," i.e., no sin can be charged against Christians, as there is no law, to define the offense, the transgression. That is his on record "logic." And yet, in the "same breath," he asserts, again, on record,ad nauseam......
http://theologyonline.com/showthread...alvation/page3
Post #32
http://theologyonline.com/showthread...octrine/page14
Posts #198, 200, 204......:
Tell us, Pate, with more of your demonic "logic"- how can Christians be called sinners, i.e., be charged with committing sins, by definition, when, as you "argue," there is no law for Christians, only sinners(distinguishing them, the lost, as sinners, from Christians), you quoting 1 Timothy 1:9 KJV, when there is allegedly no law, it being abolished,according to you, to define sin for Christians, to define the offense?
Tell us, POPE Pate, how can a Christian be termed a "sinner," which, by definition, is one who commits a sin/transgression, if there is no law for them to be charged with a sin/offense/transgression?Your entire "argument" for the law being abolished for Christians, is, that if there is no law, the Christian cannot be charged with a sin/transgression, you quoting "Where there is no law there is no transgression." So, how is that a Christian, is a "sinner?" A sinner, by definition, commits a sin. What sin?
Pate quoted this, dozens of times, in his "argument:"
1 Timothy 1:9 KJV
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
Pate:The law was made for sinners, John W., not Christians. Apparently, you need the law, being a sinner!!!!!!!!!!!
Other/me, to Pate: You said Christians are still considered sinners, Pate. How can that be, since, if there is no law, according to you, by which they can be judged to commit a sin/transgression? .Remember....Your "argument"....Where there is no law there is no transgression, no sin!!!!That is why the law had to be abolished, according to your premise.
Pate: Well, urr, uh,....You need the law....I am led by the Holy Spirit, you see, uh, urr....
Go ahead, Pate. Spin, lie, change biblical words, delete words, re-invent the meaning of words, to get yourself out of this ditch you are in.
Go ahead, Pate.
Watch the spam, 1 line sound bytes with which he replies. Watch...
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glorydaz
Well-known member
You're really asking if Jesus contradicted Himself, aren't you?
The revelation He gave the Apostle Paul was different.
Pate: If the laws of foreign countries exist, you will be judged by the laws of foreign countries.
This is the continued demonic, diminished capacity "logic" of this troll.
JonahofAkron
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It was rhetorical. If Paul contradicts Jesus, he is not an Apostle.
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glorydaz
Well-known member
JonahofAkron
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Your snarkiness is palpable.Oh, rhetorical. No wonder I didn't get it.
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glorydaz
Well-known member
Really? And here I was being serious. Lots of stuff goes right over my head.
JonahofAkron
New member
Ha. My bad. I feel that. Especially if I'm in the forums.
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glorydaz
Well-known member
The law cannot save or justify. The law only judges and condemns. This is why Paul said to be under the law is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10.
In the judgment you will either be found "In Christ" or under the law. As it appears right now you are under the law.
In the Gospel Jesus comes into the world to perfect our humanity and take it back to heaven. All that believe that Jesus has justified, sanctified and redeemed them are "In Christ".
Spiritually we are ALREADY perfect and complete "In Christ". No law or religion needed, Ephesians 2:6.
You lied. You say that you commit sins. You assert that you are a sinner, by definition, one who commits sins.What law defines that you committed a sin/transgression of the law, since sin is a transgression of the law?
Answer the question, you devious, satanic troll.
You lied, again. You asserted that the law was made for sinners, not Christians, per 1 Timothy 1:9 KJV. You admit that you are a sinner, thus, you are under the law, satanist.
Sin is the transgression of the law. You commit sins, by your own admission.
1. So, what law did you transgress, that resulted in your sin/transgression, that defines the transgression/sin? It cannot be the perfect, good, just, holy, spiritual law of God, since you assert that law no longer exists for you/Christians, being abolished, "poof/gone," void.
2. How can you commit a transgression/sin, such as murder, robbery/theft, adultery, lying................if there is no law against it, no law defining it as a transgression/ sin?
How can you commit an offense/transgression/crime, against the laws of the US, such as theft, speeding, arson, murder,....................if there is no law defining them as offenses/transgressions/crimes, giving you knowledge that they are offenses/transgressions/crimes?
Why do you not propose to abolish the laws of the US against theft, speeding, arson, murder,...................so that there is no offense/transgression/crime for breaking them, such as you do in justifying why the law of God must be abolished?
3. How did you come to know that you commit sins/transgressions, .....
Romans 3 KJV
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 7 KJV
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
.....without a/the law defining them as sins/transgressions, letting you know that they are sins/transgressions?
Tell all of TOL, Pate, and quit spamming your spin, misdirection.Tell us, troll.
Poor lost John W. He frets and rants and carries on like a Pharisee. The law, the law, the law.
There is no concern about laws and rules for those that are "In Christ". Those that are "In Christ" don't need laws or rules. We believe that Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it for us. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we stand before God's holy court as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Unfortunately John W. is not there. He prefers to be under the law.
Caught lying, again.You assert that the law was made for sinners, per 1 Timothy 1:9 KJV. You admit that you are a sinner, thus under the law, demon.
Evasion,misdirection, as I predicted.
You lied-again.. You say that you commit sins. You assert that you are a sinner, by definition, one who commits sins.What law defines that you committed a sin/transgression of the law, since sin is a transgression of the law?
Answer the question, you devious, satanic troll.
You lied, again. You asserted that the law was made for sinners, not Christians, per 1 Timothy 1:9 KJV. You admit that you are a sinner, thus, you are under the law, satanist.
Sin is the transgression of the law. You commit sins, by your own admission.
1. So, what law did you transgress, that resulted in your sin/transgression, that defines the transgression/sin? It cannot be the perfect, good, just, holy, spiritual law of God, since you assert that law no longer exists for you/Christians, being abolished, "poof/gone," void.
2. How can you commit a transgression/sin, such as murder, robbery/theft, adultery, lying................if there is no law against it, no law defining it as a transgression/ sin?
How can you commit an offense/transgression/crime, against the laws of the US, such as theft, speeding, arson, murder,....................if there is no law defining them as offenses/transgressions/crimes, giving you knowledge that they are offenses/transgressions/crimes?
Why do you not propose to abolish the laws of the US against theft, speeding, arson, murder,...................so that there is no offense/transgression/crime for breaking them, such as you do in justifying why the law of God must be abolished?
3. How did you come to know that you commit sins/transgressions, .....
Romans 3 KJV
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 7 KJV
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
.....without a/the law defining them as sins/transgressions, letting you know that they are sins/transgressions?
Tell all of TOL, Pate, and quit spamming your spin, misdirection.Tell us, troll.
Not a peep, from the bible deleter, troll who asserts that the Lord Jesus Christ was an impotent, not being able to die for all of our sins in the future, and thus asserts that the law must be abolished, since he is unable to die for those sins-on record.
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