Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

[Ben Masada]

1 - God said in the Tanakh that He would make a new covenant with Israel. "'Behold, days are coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers,...My covenant which they broke....But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,' declares the LORD, 'I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.'" (Jeremiah 31:31-33, NASB)

2 - So apparently God intended to make a new covenant to replace the old one.

3 - The Law of Moses could not save anyone, because it was intended to point forward to a Ransomer that COULD save the people.

4 - All of the sacrifices of the Law were fore-runners of the sacrifice that the Lamb of God would make.

5 - In 70 A.D. the system of sacrifices came to an end with the destruction of the temple. Wouldn't that kind of give the Israelites a hint that Jesus might have had something to do with the Law being fulfilled?

6 - The Tanakh says that the people are cursed who are under the Law. So Law cannot save them. That is because no person could keep the Law perfectly. "Cursed is he who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them." (Deuteronomy 27:26, NASB) Not MOST of the Law, but every word.

7 - As one ancient man of God once said: "Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: 'Accursed is every man hanged upon a stake (or, tree).'" (Galatians 3:10-13; Deuteronomy 21:23)

8 - So if a person cannot keep every detail of the Law, he is cursed, according to the Tanakh. No one is able to, so where does that leave them? Learn more about the New Covenant.

1 - Yes, He did it but, with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one nation. (Jer. 31:31; Ezekiel 37:12) No Gentile is mentioned, although, they are invited to join through Isaiah 56:1-8. The "new" about that covenant prophesied by Jeremiah is in the method of observance and not by any means different from the one given in Mount Sinai. The New Covenant was in the heart and not in the flesh. (Deut. 30:6, 11-14)

2 - Yahweh never... but never intended to replace the Sinaitic Covenant with the New but only in the method of observance. If it were so as you claim above, you would simply be implying that Jesus was a liar when he mentioned in his parable of the Richman and Lazarus that the only way to escape hell-fire is by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 36:29-31)

3 - Did Jesus save the people? The people were sinners before Jesus was born and became worse in their sins after he passed away. He couldn't even save the people from being crucified daily by the Romans.

4 - Regarding salvation through the Law it is a verified fact that if you obey the Law, you remain saved from all kinds of trouble. The opposite is true that you are subject to all kinds of punishments if you transgress the Law.

5 - Too bad because according to the prophets of Yahweh, no one can be sacrificed for the sins of another. Since Jesus a Law-abiding citizen, he could not have acted against the word of the Prophets. (Jer. 31:31; Ezek. 18:20)

6 - True that the sacrifices came to an end with the destruction of the Temple but they had nothing to do with the crucifixion of Jesus. Had they any thing to do with Jesus, they would have come to an end at the soon at the moment Jesus had died but, another generation of 40 had to go by for the Temple to be destroyed which cause the end of the sacrifices.

7 - One is not saved BY the Law but through the Law which is a proven fact. True that for being humans, we are subject to temptations but, the Lord has provided an alibi through Isaiah that, to set things right with the Lord so that our sins, from scarlet red may become as white as snow, all we need is to repent, and return to the obedience of the Law.

8 - "Confirm" all the words of the Law" is the way the Lord spoke. The transgression would be to reject any of the words of the Law. Jesus released no one from the Law; Paul did it if you read Rom.7:6. Jesus could not contradict himself in what he said in Mat. 5:19. "Whoever shall break even one of these commandments of the Law and so on..." How could he himself have released any one else from the Law?

 

[Crucible]

So, the Jews killed Jesus because you have decided that it was so. I got you! It means you accept no evidences pointing to the fact that the Romans did that job! Okay, so you need some more persuading.

Oh yeah, go and scapegoat it on the Romans. The Jews were the one's who caused it, having brought him up before Pilate demanding that he be killed, having him fear an uprising otherwise.

The Romans weren't Jewish. They didn't see Jesus as a threat and therefore had no other motive to have him crucified.

 

[Ben Masada]

Why Jews don't Accept Jesus?

Why Jews don't Accept Jesus?

Oh yeah, go and scapegoat it on the Romans. The Jews were the one's who caused it, having brought him up before Pilate demanding that he be killed, having him fear an uprising otherwise.

The Romans weren't Jewish. They didn't see Jesus as a threat and therefore had no other motive to have him crucified.

Do you know something Crucible? Your problem is that you don't read your NT enough. That's quite frustrating to the readers to have to discuss the Bible with people who don't read their own Bible.

Pilate loved to crucify Jews but he would not crucify one because of his problems with the Jewish authorities but, to crucify insurrects was his business and he loved it. Hence, according to Josephus, Pilate would lose his day the day he didn't crucify a Jew. The reason Jesus was crucified was because he was being acclaimed king
of the Jews in a Roman province which was Jerusalem at that time. Read Luke 19:37-40. Therefore, if you want some one to blame for the crucifixion of Jesus, look for him among his own disciples and you will find him. The Jewish authorities would have no interest to appeal to the Romans against a Jew who had born to obey and confirm the Law and the Prophets down to the letter if you read Mat.5:17-19. You will not persuade me to the contrary.

 

[SabathMoon]

I can hardly see plagiarism in what I have said above. And BTW, salvation from what if I may ask? From our sins? That's up to us if you read Isaiah 1:18,19. The best way to set things right with the Lord so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow, all we have to do is to repent and return to the obedience of the Law.

You realize how the messiah king is totally unnecessary, and impossible. Only God will interrupt the next holocaust, and it will be the Muslims not the Jews.

 

[SabathMoon]

Do you know something Crucible? Your problem is that you don't read your NT enough. That's quite frustrating to the readers to have to discuss the Bible with people who don't read their own Bible.

Pilate loved to crucify Jews but he would not crucify one because of his problems with the Jewish authorities but, to crucify insurrects was his business and he loved it. Hence, according to Josephus, Pilate would lose his day the day he didn't crucify a Jew. The reason Jesus was crucified was because he was being acclaimed king
of the Jews in a Roman province which was Jerusalem at that time. Read Luke 19:37-40. Therefore, if you want some one to blame for the crucifixion of Jesus, look for him among his own disciples and you will find him. The Jewish authorities would have no interest to appeal to the Romans against a Jew who had born to obey and confirm the Law and the Prophets down to the letter if you read Mat.5:17-19. You will not persuade me to the contrary.

They believed there to be a God, but didn't trust his meager son. Pilate was most entertained by the knavery, and posted the crime as being a king of a Jews. He didn't use the charge of blasphemy or rather insult of the most high god, which was the Jewish tribe's charge.

 

[Elia]

Oh yeah, go and scapegoat it on the Romans. The Jews were the one's who caused it, having brought him up before Pilate demanding that he be killed, having him fear an uprising otherwise.

Bs"d

That is of course only if you first believe that the NT is true.

Please give me some proof that the NT is the inspired word of God.

[quoteThe Romans weren't Jewish. They didn't see Jesus as a threat and therefore had no other motive to have him crucified.[/QUOTE]

He presented himself as a messianic leader, thereby posing a threat to the Romans, who in those days crucified tens of thousands.

He wasn't exactly the only one.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[Elia]

God said in the Tanakh that He would make a new covenant with Israel. "'Behold, days are coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers,...My covenant which they broke....But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,' declares the LORD, 'I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.'" (Jeremiah 31:31-33, NASB)

So apparently God intended to make a new covenant to replace the old one.

Bs"d

No. Read again what you yourself posted here above: "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,' declares the LORD, 'I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.'"

The new covenant is Gods laws, the laws of Gods old covenant, being written on the hearts of the Jews, and the Jews being Gods people.

Since Christians are totally lawless, this cannot apply to Christianity. It is the old covenant in a new form.

" The Law of Moses could not save anyone, because it was intended to point forward to a Ransomer that COULD save the people. All of the sacrifices of the Law were fore-runners of the sacrifice that the Lamb of God would make.

You are totally making that up of course.

In 70 A.D. the system of sacrifices came to an end with the destruction of the temple. Wouldn't that kind of give the Israelites a hint that Jesus might have had something to do with the Law being fulfilled?

It gave as much a hint of the law being fulfilled as the destruction of the first Temple, about 500 years before. That is: No hint.

The Tanakh says that the people are cursed who are under the Law.

Nonsense. Somebody who doesn't observe the law is cursed.

So Law cannot save them.

We don't need the law to save us, God saves us.

That is because no person could keep the Law perfectly. "Cursed is he who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them." (Deuteronomy 27:26, NASB) Not MOST of the Law, but every word.

Of course not "every word".

Many laws only apply to the priest, those do not have to be fulfilled by the common man. Out goes the "every word" fulfillment.

Women have different laws than man. In different circumstances men have different obligations. No such thing as "You must fulfil EVERY WORD".

As one ancient man of God once said: "Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: 'Accursed is every man hanged upon a stake (or, tree).'" (Galatians 3:10-13; Deuteronomy 21:23)

Only totally lawless people would call the law a curse. Why would God want to curse the Jews by giving them an accursed law?

This is what righteous law abiding people say about the law:

"Blessed are You, O Y-H-W-H!
Teach me Your statutes.
13
With my lips I have declared
All the judgments of Your mouth.
14
I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies,
As much as in all riches.
15
I will meditate on Your precepts,
And contemplate Your ways.
16
I will delight myself in Your statutes;
I will not forget Your word."

"Teach me, O Y-H-W-H, the way of Your statutes,
And I shall keep it to the end.
34
Give me understanding, and I shall keep Your law;
Indeed, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
35
Make me walk in the path of Your commandments,
For I delight in it."

"And I will delight myself in Your commandments,
Which I love.
48
My hands also I will lift up to Your commandments,
Which I love,
And I will meditate on Your statutes."

"70 But I delight in Your law."

"72
The law of Your mouth is better to me
Than thousands of coins of gold and silver."

"Oh, how I love Your law!
It is my meditation all the day.
98
You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies;
For they are ever with me.
99
I have more understanding than all my teachers,
For Your testimonies are my meditation.
100
I understand more than the ancients,
Because I keep Your precepts.
101
I have restrained my feet from every evil way,
That I may keep Your word.
102
I have not departed from Your judgments,
For You Yourself have taught me.
103
How sweet are Your words to my taste,
Sweeter than honey to my mouth!
104
Through Your precepts I get understanding;
Therefore I hate every false way."

"163
I hate and abhor lying,
But I love Your law."

"Y-H-W-H, I hope for Your salvation,
And I do Your commandments.
167
My soul keeps Your testimonies,
And I love them exceedingly."

"174
I long for Your salvation, O Y-H-W-H,
And Your law is my delight."

Psalm 119

That's something different than "the accursed law".

That is something totally different from the lawless pagans.



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

 

[Ben Masada]

Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

1 - They believed there to be a God, but didn't trust his meager son.

2 - Pilate was most entertained by the knavery, and posted the crime as being a king of a Jews.

3 - He didn't use the charge of blasphemy or rather insult of the most high god, which was the Jewish tribe's charge.

1 - The first statement makes no sense to me. Sorry!

2 - That's what I meant, "You are not reading your NT. Pilate charged Jesus for being acclaimed king of the Jews by his disciples and not because he made up that idea out of entertainment. (Luke 19:37-40)

3 - That's what I said above, because he was not concerned about the problems regarding the religion of the Jews but, he considered the other charge of king of the Jews in replacement of Caesar then the verdict was approved for condemnation of Jesus to the cross. With the verdict INRI. (Luke 19:37-40)

 

[Ben Masada]

Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

You realize how the messiah king is totally unnecessary, and impossible. Only God will interrupt the next holocaust, and it will be the Muslims not the Jews.

Jesus was not the Messiah because an individual could not be the Messiah. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a people before Yahweh forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) Just as Prophet Habakkuk said in 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel, the Messiah.

 

[Ben Masada]

Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

Short answer for why Jews don't accept Messiah in 3 parts:

1 - 1) heinous crimes against Jews since the lie about Jews killing Messiah began,

2 - 2) as the Torah is still vital to the life of Jews, telling them that they need to disavow it because Messiah did prevents them from belief, and finally,

3 - 3) the Messiah has been made to look like a Gentile. I'm sure there's more, but I wanted it to be short.

1 - The Jews did not kill Jesus. The Romans did it.

2 - Jesus never taught the Jews to disavow the torah. Paul did it. (Acts 21:21)

3 - Jesus was not the Messiah because the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before Yahweh forever. (Jer. 31:35-37)

 

[Lon]

Mat.5:17-19. You will not persuade me to the contrary.

Only because you quote-mine instead of read our literature.
Our expectations are different, thus our conclusions are as well.

"If I had cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not have listened." Psalm 66:18

Does God listen to you? Answer you?

His thoughts are not our thoughts. His ways are not our ways.
Isaiah 55:8-9


Micah 6:8

 

[Elia]

3 - Jesus was not the Messiah because the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before Yahweh forever. (Jer. 31:35-37)

Bs"d

On top of that: He didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[Lon]

1 - The Jews did not kill Jesus. The Romans did it.

"Barabbas or Jesus?" - "Barabbas!"

2 - Jesus never taught the Jews to disavow the torah. Paul did it. (Acts 21:21)

False dichotomy. Paul was chosen by Jesus. You are only quoting what agrees with your Jewish notion.

3 - Jesus was not the Messiah because the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before Yahweh forever. (Jer. 31:35-37)

"Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People..."
I 'think' tradition has messed you guys up on this one. Expectation (commentary and traditions) isn't the same as the scriptures themselves. That is why you have divergence in rabbinical writings of acceptable alternate. Some TOL Jews don't actually talk or debate like Jews I've come in contact with prior, not that Jews can't differ in personality, but you are generally not proselytizers. Do debates happen in synagogues over these discussions?

Bs"d

Or without it, but I pray for that help as well.

On top of that: He didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

You both should be aware of converted Jews by now to know this is purely an assertion. The argument, again, is over interpretation. Frankly, I don't see how a Jew can interpret Isaiah any other way than a Messiah exactly as Jesus Christ is portrayed. It is the 'hanging of civil hopes' that blind the eyes from how He would and must come. I'm sad you are blind, but I don't believe you can excuse it because Isaiah was used by Handel for "Messiah" as a celebration of Jesus' birth, life, and work.

 

[Elia]

Frankly, I don't see how a Jew can interpret Isaiah any other way than a Messiah exactly as Jesus Christ is portrayed. It is the 'hanging of civil hopes' that blind the eyes from how He would and must come. I'm sad you are blind, but I don't believe you can excuse it because Isaiah was used by Handel for "Messiah" as a celebration of Jesus' birth, life, and work.

Bs'd

That's what you get if your can only read Isaiah in a corrupted Christian translation.

But the fact of the matter is: There is not the slightest indication, let alone any proof, in Isaiah, or the rest of the the Tanach, that Isaiah 53 speaks about the messiah.

The proof for Isaiah 53 speaking about Israel is abundant and irrefutable.

For the finer details look here: http://Isaiah53.notlong.com



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

 

[Ben Masada]

Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

1 - "Barabbas or Jesus?" - "Barabbas!"

2 - False dichotomy. Paul was chosen by Jesus. You are only quoting what agrees with your Jewish notion.

3 - "Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People..." I 'think' tradition has messed you guys up on this one. Expectation (commentary and traditions) isn't the same as the scriptures themselves. That is why you have divergence in rabbinical writings of acceptable alternate.

4 - Some TOL Jews don't actually talk or debate like Jews I've come in contact with prior, not that Jews can't differ in personality, but you are generally not proselytizers. Do debates happen in synagogues over these discussions?

5 - You both should be aware of converted Jews by now to know this is purely an assertion. The argument, again, is over interpretation. Frankly, I don't see how a Jew can interpret Isaiah any other way than a Messiah exactly as Jesus Christ is portrayed. It is the 'hanging of civil hopes' that blind the eyes from how He would and must come. I'm sad you are blind, but I don't believe you can excuse it because Isaiah was used by Handel for "Messiah" as a celebration of Jesus' birth, life, and work.

1 - That never happened. That's a distortion made by the Hellenist former disciples of Paul who wrote the gospels. BTW, none of the apostles of Jesus wrote a single page of the gospels. But, lucky you that I still find 20% in the gospels worthy learning something from.

2 - You are totally wrong. Jesus never even dreamed that the man Paul would ever rise. Jesus had been dead about 10 to 15 years before Paul showed up in the horizon.

3 - My reference here is to Israel as the Messiah referred to in Isaiah 53 aka the Suffering Servant. (Isa. 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21) It has nothing to do with tradition but all with the Tanach, especially the Prophets.

4 - Jews outside TOL are not interested in the NT for any purpose whatsoever and they usually avoid any discussion about the Messiah because of the Christian connotation with Jesus. And with regards to proselytizing, you are right, the Jewish prohibition from the 4th Century was meant to prevent death of Jews who would be caught by the Catholic Church in the act of proselytizing. Then the ban has remained to this day and we never discuss on this matter in the synagogues.

5 - I do discuss the Messiah according to Isaiah 53 but, the true Messiah in Israel and not a pseudo one which Christians claim to have been Jesus. The Messiah cannot be an individual but the collective in Israel. According to Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord in Israel.

 

[Ben Masada]

Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

1 - Only because you quote-mine instead of read our literature.
2 - Our expectations are different, thus our conclusions are as well.
3 - "If I had cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not have listened." Psalm 66:18.
4 - Does God listen to you? Answer you?

5 - His thoughts are not our thoughts. His ways are not our ways.
Isaiah 55:8-9; Micah 6:8

1 - If by your literature you mean the NT, I have probably read it more than you have.

2 - You surely can say that again. I am a Jew; you are a Christian.

3 - Every one in his life has cherished some kind of iniquity because there has never been a man upon earth to done only good and never sinned. That's in Ecclesiastes 7:20.

4 - But of course He does listen to us. Regarding an answer, I never ask Him any question or put up any request beyond what He has already done for me. So, my prayers are usually in the form of praises.

5 - Of course! Yahweh cannot be compared with man. (Isa. 46:5)

 

[Ben Masada]

Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

Bs"d

On top of that: He didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.

"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”Joshua 24:14-15

Yes, Elia, you surely can say that again! BTW, I read all your posts but, usually I give replies only to those addressed to me by name.

 

[Lon]

1 - If by your literature you mean the NT, I have probably read it more than you have.

You sit down and read it once a year all the way through???

2 - You surely can say that again. I am a Jew; you are a Christian.

Once is enough.

3 - Every one in his life has cherished some kind of iniquity because there has never been a man upon earth to done only good and never sinned. That's in Ecclesiastes 7:20.

Right, up until Solomon. Jesus lived after. You are just being dismissive. Probably #2 makes it mandatory.

4 - But of course He does listen to us. Regarding an answer, I never ask Him any question or put up any request beyond what He has already done for me. So, my prayers are usually in the form of praises.

This was the answer I expected.

5 - Of course! Yahweh cannot be compared with man. (Isa. 46:5)

If we disagreed on everything, there'd be no point to you being on TOL with a bunch of Christians but there was a point to be made concerning a Jewish expectation of Gd's nature, and the nature of Messiah. God is Sovereign and the Apostles were all Jews. Christianity bridges the gap between Jew and gentile or gentiles would be lost. Give it more thought, you are a bit too indoctrinated. Jesus Christ certainly fits my expectations from Isaiah as well as other messianic expressions.

 

[Lon]

Bs'd

The proof for Isaiah 53 speaking about Israel is abundant and irrefutable.

For the finer details look here: http://Isaiah53.notlong.com



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

:nono: Because I and others do in fact refute it and have for a long time. You are over-asserting.

 

[Elia]

Yes, Elia, you surely can say that again! BTW, I read all your posts but, usually I give replies only to those addressed to me by name.

:thumb: