Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 3

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Arthur Brain

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Come on Art, GFR7/Scot has a license to play dumb in this thread, it hasn't been extended to you.

What's your excuse then?

The neo Nazi movement is closely tied in together. Just because one talks about the IKA doesn't mean that the TYN is any different. If you'd paid attention to the posts about the modern day Nazi movement, you would have known that.

There may very well be similarities between the two but that wasn't the point. If you can't keep track of what's actually being referenced then that's nobody else's fault.
 

aCultureWarrior

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No ranting necessary, merely pointing out the facts.

I'm heading out for awhile, but if you would like to refute what historians like Shirer, Knickerbocker, Lenz and numerous others used in The Pink Swastika said about Hitler and his SS' homosexuality, I would be willing to listen (and Art, an opinionated article from The Southern Poverty Law Center nor a testimony about living conditions in Nazi prison camps from a homosexual doesn't count as "legitimate historians").
 

aCultureWarrior

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There may very well be similarities between the two but that wasn't the point. If you can't keep track of what's actually being referenced then that's nobody else's fault.

The point is (as Lively and Abrams show in their book) that while there is a obvious HATRED of those who engage in homosexual behavior by the modern day neo Nazi movement (be it the ones in the US or Europe) as there was by their Nazi Germany predecessors, many of those who are part of the movememt are sexual deviants themselves.

Remember that there is no room for the Christian doctrine of repentance and salvation in their ranks, like their allies in the LGBTQueer movement, there is only death.
 

Arthur Brain

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I'm heading out for awhile, but if you would like to refute what historians like Shirer, Knickerbocker, Lenz and numerous others used in The Pink Swastika said about Hitler and his SS' homosexuality, I would be willing to listen (and Art, an opinionated article from The Southern Poverty Law Center nor a testimony about living conditions in Nazi prison camps from a homosexual doesn't count as "legitimate historians").

Addressed before by myself, TH along with others as you're well aware. It isn't taken seriously by credited academics and historians as TH showed you back when you first brought the thing up and I recently linked you to that exchange on the last few pages here.

As before, the onus is on you to show why established history is somehow wrong and why non historians/academics should be taken seriously.
 

Arthur Brain

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The point is (as Lively and Abrams show in their book) that while there is a obvious HATRED of those who engage in homosexual behavior by the modern day neo Nazi movement (be it the ones in the US or Europe) as there was by their Nazi Germany predecessors, many of those who are part of the movememt are sexual deviants themselves.

Remember that there is no room for the Christian doctrine of repentance and salvation in their ranks, like their allies in the LGBTQueer movement, there is only death.

There undoubtedly will be some homosexuals as there are with any demographic or 'group', including people who identify as 'Conservative Christians'. Claiming that it's "rife" or that practically all of the SS were gay however, is just plain ridiculous.
 

GFR7

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aCW, it is odd that you will not accept the Jewish Holocaust museum or society material on the persecution of homosexuals under Nazi Germany, nor any of the traditional history books (such as Grau's Hidden Holocaust: Gay and Lesbian Persecution in Germany, 1933-45, 1995, or Plant's The Pink Triangle: The Nazi War Against Homosexuals, 2011); not to mention the myriad of history books and commentary written and published post WW II to the present. Nor will you accept the writings of Patheos' Throckmorton.
But we are to accept Lively as Gospel.
:think:

The problem with Lively's thesis:

According to Bryan Fischer:

Lively's crime? In his book, "The Pink Swastika," Lively exposes a secret homosexual activists don't want you to know about Nazi Germany: that although the Nazis did persecute homosexuals, the homosexuals the Nazis persecuted were almost exclusively the effeminate members of the gay community in Germany, and that much of the mistreatment was administered by masculine homosexuals who despised effeminacy in all its forms.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/080515

So Lively is separating homosexuals into two divergent and warring camps; one is pro-male and pro-machismo; the other effeminate - and this has been confirmed by Showalter's Sexual Anarchy: Gender and Culture at the Fin de Siècle (1992).

But if you understand this in it's historical context, this would only prove that the gays of today have nothing in common with those of Nazism:

The latter are not really gay nor are they homosexual as we understand the term. You might call them masculine men who committed sodomy, (and criminal acts like pedophilia and rape, to their shame and discredit) but they bear no resemblance to the same sex marriage movement gays of our own era.

It is not as though we've found out that LGBTQs were really Nazis in the past: On the contrary, LGBTQs were persecuted under Nazi Germany. These camps were opposing; they appear at the same historical time but do not owe their origins to the same causes nor share the same etiology.

So what is really thereby proven? Nothing, save for the fact that the part of the gay movement that we would today call the sadomasochist and bondage crowd - the "leather boys" set - has its roots in Nazi Germany, or more likely it's costumes' roots - but these are not the ones pushing SSM and their agenda in our schools: It is the softer set and the transsexuals who fared badly under Hitler.

The "Butch" homosexual guards and capos were capable of unrestrained cruelty, sadism and savagery. A guard at Auschwitz, for instance, strangled, crushed and gnawed to death as many as 100 boys and young men a day while raping them at his leisure.

How could their heirs be satisfied preaching anti-bullying campaigns, gender-neutral bathrooms, and same sex marriage? Seriously? It's just so very obvious that the PC postmodern-radical feminist camp of LGBTQs we are dealing with are not derivative of the Nazi kind. Indeed, they are its antithesis. The "war on males and masculinity" and the "hatred of patriarchy" which The Antifeminist and Spiked complain about are the rainbow crowd in the opposite mode of the Nazi era homosexuals. The two groups have nothing in common.


Except for the "leather boy" camp:

And isn't this mainly non-political play-acting???
In short, the thesis advanced by Lively in The Pink Swastica is acceptable when speaking about a subset of the culture in that era - but wholly irrelevant to the LGBTQ problem we have now, in the US and globally. It completely misreads it's etiology and it's agenda.

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Does Lively seriously think for one moment that the blood-lust homosexual Nazis and Storm Troopers would think that THIS was the glory of their movement???

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aCultureWarrior

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aCW, it is odd that you will not accept the Jewish Holocaust museum or society material on the persecution of homosexuals under Nazi Germany, nor any of the traditional history books (such as Grau's Hidden Holocaust: Gay and Lesbian Persecution in Germany, 1933-45, 1995, or Plant's The Pink Triangle: The Nazi War Against Homosexuals, 2011); not to mention the myriad of history books and commentary written and published post WW II to the present. Nor will you accept the writings of Patheos' Throckmorton.
But we are to accept Lively as Gospel.
:think:

Yet you accepted Lively and Abrams research only a few pages ago. (Sooooo many personalities, so little memory).

Regarding the books that you mentioned: The Pink Swastika isn't denying that homosexuals were brutally murdered, so what's your point?

In regards to Warren Throckmorton: Unfortunately ole Warren has joined the sodomite camp on numerous issues (refer to the table of contents, Part 1 I believe, showing information on how Throckmorton has sold out God). Besides, the last time I checked Warren Throckmorton isn't considered a historian (outside of the LGBTQueer camp that is)

The problem with Lively's thesis:

You're confusing thesis (a proposition stated or put forward for consideration) with facts (something known to exist or to have happened).

According to Bryan Fischer:
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/080515

So Lively is separating homosexuals into two divergent and warring camps; one is pro-male and pro-machismo; the other effeminate - and this has been confirmed by Showalter's Sexual Anarchy: Gender and Culture at the Fin de Siècle (1992).

But if you understand this in it's historical context, this would only prove that the gays of today have nothing in common with those of Nazism:

The latter are not really gay nor are they homosexual as we understand the term.

I don't have any first hand experience with this, but the way I understand it GFR7/Scot, is that if a person engages in sex with a person of the same gender, then that would mean that they're engaging in a homosexual act.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

GFR7

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Yet you accepted Lively and Abrams research only a few pages ago. (Sooooo many personalities, so little memory).

Regarding the books that you mentioned: The Pink Swastika isn't denying that homosexuals were brutally murdered, so what's your point?

In regards to Warren Throckmorton: Unfortunately ole Warren has joined the sodomite camp on numerous issues (refer to the table of contents, Part 1 I believe, showing information on how Throckmorton has sold out God). Besides, the last time I checked Warren Throckmorton isn't considered a historian (outside of the LGBTQueer camp that is)



You're confusing thesis (a proposition stated or put forward for consideration) with facts (something known to exist or to have happened).



I don't have any first hand experience with this, but the way I understand it GFR7/Scot, is that if a person engages in sex with a person of the same gender, then that would mean that they're engaging in a homosexual act.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Not until you address the real meaning of my post. :AMR1:
You addressed 25% of it, and that, badly.

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And according to Lively, there are TWO camps of homosexuals. :AMR1: And if I conceded that Hitler was abnormal, that does not in any wise mean that I adhere to Lively's thesis wholly (and it is a thesis because there are counterfactual and alternative theorie which have been in place longer and have yet to be satisfactorily refuted.).

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aCultureWarrior

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Not until you address the real meaning of my post.

The only thing worth addressing from your previous post is this (which I've stated numerous times while talking about the modern day homosexual movement) :

But if you understand this in it's historical context, this would only prove that the gays of today have nothing in common with those of Nazism

How do you think the term "gaystapo" originated? As shown throughout this 3 part thread, the intimidation techniques used by the modern day LGBTQueer movement is something that they learned from the Nazis Brownshirts.

Nazi Tactics in “Gay” Politics

“I shall torture you during the daytime, and will keep you from a peaceful sleep at night.”

Larry Kramer, Founder of ACT-UP (Leo:18).

The “gay” movement has done more than simply adopt Nazi styles and symbolism. Homosexual strategists have also embraced the terroristic tactics of the Nazi Brownshirts to advance their political agenda.

One of the most notorious groups to employ Nazi thuggery is the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power (ACT-UP) which was founded in New York by Larry Kramer and approximately 300 other activists in March, 1987. (Alyson Almanac:42). Within a few months its members had gained national attention for their aggressive actions against those whom they considered enemies. ACT-UP groups invaded Catholic churches in New York during religious services, screaming obscenities and “stomping on communion wafers” (Miller:460). Catholic churches were also targeted in Washington, Los Angeles and Puerto Rico. Newspaper boxes were smashed in Sacramento to punish an editor for his views (Grant, 1993:104). One militant who later regretted his involvement was Washington, D.C. ACT-UP founder, Eric Pollard. The following is an excerpt from his 1992 letter to the Washington Blade titled, “Time to give up fascist tactics”:

This is very hard for me to write. It forces me to squarely confront my past actions and to accept responsibility for the damage I have had a part in causing. I sincerely apologize for my involvement in and my founding of the AIDS activist organization, ACT-UP D.C.. I have helped to create a truly fascist organization...The average Gay man or woman could not immediately relate to our subversive tactics, drawn largely from the voluminous Mein Kampf, which some of us studied as a working model (Washington Blade, January, 1992)

In his 1998 War on Heterosexuality, author Michael P. Wright, quotes AIDS “dissenter” Alex Russell on the fascist character of contemporary “gay” activism.

Many attributes of the HIV Homofascist Movement (or HIVism) resemble those of Fascism and the psychology of Freikorpsmen: an authoritarian personality; extreme emphasis on the masculine principle, male dominance and blood brotherhood; exclusive membership in an elite in-group; and the fetishization and aestheticization of suffering, self-sacrifice and death.
Freikorpsmen made war a way of life....Many HIV Blood Brothers see the war on AIDS as a way of death where the Freudian pleasure principle and the death drive become indistinguishable. The Swastika armband has now been replaced by the HIV positive tattoo and the red ribbon (Russell in Wright:Chapter 5).

Within a few years of its founding, ACT-UP spawned the more radical Queer Nation. Miller writes that Queer Nation’s “in your face” tactics antagonized some in the “gay” community. Randy Shilts [a prominent homosexual writer] called Queer Nationals “brownshirts” and “lavender fascists” (Miller:460). Queer Nation adopted highly militant rhetoric and openly threatened violence. Grant describes their tactics during an Oregon election campaign (see Introduction) in which voters considered a law to ban minority status based on homosexuality:

...flyers appeared on telephone poles warning people to vote against it. One showed the Christian ichthus fish being roasted on a stick over a fire. It read, YOU BURN US, WE BURN YOU...another said CIVIL RIGHTS or CIVIL WAR. Your choice for a limited time only...It also clarified what it meant by “civil war” by listing “QUEER KNIVES, QUEER GUNS, QUEER BULLETS, QUEER MISSLES, QUEER TANKS, QUEER TRENCHES, QUEER FIRE, QUEER WARFARE, QUEER PATRIOTS (Grant, 1993:104f).

Read more: http://www.defendthefamily.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/html/the_pinkswastika_4th_edition_-_final.htm

Need I remind people of Ryan Sorba's attempt to speak on "The Born Gay Hoax" at Smith College in 2008?

Gaystapo in action, part 1


Gaystapo in action, part 2



And according to Lively, there are TWO camps of homosexuals. :AMR1: And if I conceded that Hitler was abnormal, that does not in any wise mean that I adhere to Lively's thesis wholly (and it is a thesis because there are counterfactual and alternative theorie which have been in place longer and have yet to be satisfactorily refuted.).

(I love it when GFR7/Scot/Aaron comes out and plays all intellectual like instead of acting like that whiiiiiiny little GFR7 who tosses things all over the place whenever he goes into one of his many frenzies).

Whatever.
 
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GFR7

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I still don't know who Aaron is, and I still don't see that you're grasping the essential point I'm making. I am taking time to read what you posted, so be patient. :AMR1:

YES I DO CONCEDE THIS WAS FASCIST - ACT-UP WAS DREADFUL:


This is very hard for me to write. It forces me to squarely confront my past actions and to accept responsibility for the damage I have had a part in causing. I sincerely apologize for my involvement in and my founding of the AIDS activist organization, ACT-UP D.C.. I have helped to create a truly fascist organization...The average Gay man or woman could not immediately relate to our subversive tactics, drawn largely from the voluminous Mein Kampf, which some of us studied as a working model (Washington Blade, January, 1992)


But, aCW, don't you think those blood-lust Nazis and Brown Shirts and Storm Troopers who raped and pillaged and tortured, and whose victims sang in the fire, are so proud to see where their movement has all wound up? :think:

Spoiler
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aCultureWarrior

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None of these men are historians

Welcome back to the thread Tracy. Did I mention that I've really missed your profound posts?

Speaking gay historian Warren Throckmorton:

Warren_Throckmorton-small3.jpg

Warren Throckmorton: heartthrob of the ultra leftwing hate group The Southern Poverty Law Center, and LGBTQueer "affirming".

I was curious about the post that I referenced about ole Warren.

Here is part of it from a conversation I had with homosexualist Daedalean's_Sun:

Peter LaBarbera of Americans For Truth About Homosexuality shows that your "source", Warren Throckmorton of Grove City College (who at one time was a good Christian conservative) has become an ally of the homosexual movement:

LifeSite: Grove City College Psychologist Warren Throckmorton Blasted for Backpedaling on Homosexuality

Cites ‘gay’-affirming professor’s “about face”; Throckmorton reneges on answering questions posed by pro-family news service

"March 19, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) — A psychologist teaching at the conservative-Evangelical Grove City College has been making waves by endorsing same-sex civil union legislation, and claiming that homosexuals can live “normal, natural and healthy” lives.

In a recent interview with the Evangelical news service OneNewsNow (ONN), Dr. Warren Throckmorton reportedly said that “he opposes same-sex marriage but believes the Equal Protection Clause permits homosexual civil unions,” according to the news agency.

“Throckmorton says he personally holds a ‘traditional view of homosexuality and sexual ethics.’ However, when asked whether he believes homosexuality is ‘normal, natural and healthy,’ he said he could not answer that with a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ response,” ONN reported...

Throckmorton’s defection from the ex-gay movement has been met with condemnation by Evangelicals. “Though he works for an evangelical institution, Pennsylvania-based Grove City College, which advertises itself on faith-based websites as ‘authentically Christian,’ Warren promotes a new, morally neutral paradigm on homosexuality that affirms people’s ‘Sexual Identity’ according to their feelings (and comfort level with same),”...


Read more:
http://americansfortruth.com/2010/0...on-blasted-for-backpedaling-on-homosexuality/

LaBarbera also points out that Throckmorton has the seal of approval from the left-wing hate organization "Southern Poverty Law Center":

LaBarbera Asks Grove City College Professor Warren Throckmorton to Apologize for Pro-Homosexual Advocacy

"This morning I sent the following public letter to Grove City College professor and homosexuality-affirming blogger Warren Throckmorton, as well as dozens of pro-family leaders. Note that Throckmorton, a frequent critic of conservative evangelical leaders, has been singled out for praise by the leftist Southern Poverty Law Center — the same SPLC that outrageously labeled AFTAH, Family Research Council, American Family Association and other mainstream pro-family organizations as “hate groups.”...


Read more:
http://americansfortruth.com/2011/1...ton-to-apologize-for-pro-homosexual-advocacy/
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3198831&postcount=1705
 

aCultureWarrior

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But, aCW, don't you think those blood-lust Nazis and Brown Shirts and Storm Troopers who raped and pillaged and tortured, and whose victims sang in the fire, are so proud to see where their movement has all wound up?

As mentioned many times before: One of the many common denominators between the Nazi's and the modern day LGBTQueer movement is their extreme HATRED of Judeo-Christian doctrine.
 

TracerBullet

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Welcome back to the thread Tracy. Did I mention that I've really missed your profound posts?

Speaking gay historian Warren Throckmorton:

Warren_Throckmorton-small3.jpg

Warren Throckmorton: heartthrob of the ultra leftwing hate group The Southern Poverty Law Center, and LGBTQueer "affirming".

I was curious about the post that I referenced about ole Warren.

Here is part of it from a conversation I had with homosexualist Daedalean's_Sun:

Peter LaBarbera of Americans For Truth About Homosexuality shows that your "source", Warren Throckmorton of Grove City College (who at one time was a good Christian conservative) has become an ally of the homosexual movement:

LifeSite: Grove City College Psychologist Warren Throckmorton Blasted for Backpedaling on Homosexuality

Cites ‘gay’-affirming professor’s “about face”; Throckmorton reneges on answering questions posed by pro-family news service

"March 19, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) — A psychologist teaching at the conservative-Evangelical Grove City College has been making waves by endorsing same-sex civil union legislation, and claiming that homosexuals can live “normal, natural and healthy” lives.

In a recent interview with the Evangelical news service OneNewsNow (ONN), Dr. Warren Throckmorton reportedly said that “he opposes same-sex marriage but believes the Equal Protection Clause permits homosexual civil unions,” according to the news agency.

“Throckmorton says he personally holds a ‘traditional view of homosexuality and sexual ethics.’ However, when asked whether he believes homosexuality is ‘normal, natural and healthy,’ he said he could not answer that with a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ response,” ONN reported...

Throckmorton’s defection from the ex-gay movement has been met with condemnation by Evangelicals. “Though he works for an evangelical institution, Pennsylvania-based Grove City College, which advertises itself on faith-based websites as ‘authentically Christian,’ Warren promotes a new, morally neutral paradigm on homosexuality that affirms people’s ‘Sexual Identity’ according to their feelings (and comfort level with same),”...


Read more:
http://americansfortruth.com/2010/0...on-blasted-for-backpedaling-on-homosexuality/

LaBarbera also points out that Throckmorton has the seal of approval from the left-wing hate organization "Southern Poverty Law Center":

LaBarbera Asks Grove City College Professor Warren Throckmorton to Apologize for Pro-Homosexual Advocacy

"This morning I sent the following public letter to Grove City College professor and homosexuality-affirming blogger Warren Throckmorton, as well as dozens of pro-family leaders. Note that Throckmorton, a frequent critic of conservative evangelical leaders, has been singled out for praise by the leftist Southern Poverty Law Center — the same SPLC that outrageously labeled AFTAH, Family Research Council, American Family Association and other mainstream pro-family organizations as “hate groups.”...

bla bla blaa ...doesn't change the fact that your historians are not historians at all
 

TracerBullet

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As mentioned many times before: One of the many common denominators between the Nazi's and the modern day LGBTQueer movement is their extreme HATRED of Judeo-Christian doctrine.

except that Christianity was the state religion of Nazi Germany and the Nazi party as a whole embraced Christian teachings and doctrines. Ref
 

GFR7

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As mentioned many times before: One of the many common denominators between the Nazi's and the modern day LGBTQueer movement is their extreme HATRED of Judeo-Christian doctrine.
I have to agree with Tracer on this, aCW. I went to a very prestigious high school and then onto several good Universities and it was always understood that Nazism entailed a hatred of modernism and a return to Christian and traditional folk values. They hated the modern liberal Berlin crowd and the progressive Jews. They extolled Christianity. You have it all backwards, love.
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
As mentioned many times before: One of the many common denominators between the Nazi's and the modern day LGBTQueer movement is their extreme HATRED of Judeo-Christian doctrine.

except that Christianity was the state religion of Nazi Germany and the Nazi party as a whole embraced Christian teachings and doctrines. Ref

I have to agree with Tracer on this, aCW. I went to a very prestigious high school and then onto several good Universities and it was always understood that Nazism entailed a hatred of modernism and a return to Christian and traditional folk values. They hated the modern liberal Berlin crowd and the progressive Jews. They extolled Christianity. You have it all backwards, love.

Ask for a refund GFR7/Scot.

...we will wash off the Christian veneer...


Despite the belief by many pagans and even many Christians alike, Hitler was NOT a Christian. Hitler despised Jews and anything remotely Jewish and so naturally he despised Christianity. Hitler once said in a speech that "Christianity is the greatest trick the Jews every played on humanity". Does this sound like something a Christian would say??? Even though there are some neo-Nazi groups that claim to be "Christian" it doesn't make them so. You can claim to be a bullfrog and even go so far to paint yourself green, but it doesn't make you a bullfrog. In fact, had such "Nazi-Christian" groups existed in Hitler's Germany they would have surely been liquidated after the war. There was to only be one religion in the new Germany had Hitler won, and that religion would have been a state-run version of the Neopagan religion called Odinism

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains...The war will be over one day. I shall then consider that my life's final task will be to solve the religious problem." [Hitler’s Table Talk, p. 142-4]

"Christianity is the biggest lie the Jews ever told humanity"
-- Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.

"So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death," -- Adolf Hitler, 14 October 1941.

"When National Socialism has ruled long enough, it will no longer be possible to conceive of a form of life different from ours. In the long run, National Socialism and religion will no longer be able to exist together…The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity." [Hitler's Table Talk, p. 6-7]

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." [p. 51]

"Christianity, of course, has reached the peak of absurdity in this respect. And that's why one day its structure will collapse. Science has already impregnated humanity. Consequently, the more Christianity clings to its dogmas, the quicker it will decline."[Hitler's Table Talk, pp 58-62]
http://usminc.org/hitler.html

Altogether Hitler’s killing machine murdered 5 million Jews, and 7 million Christians — a little published fact that caused Jewish historian Max Dimont to declare that “the world blinded itself to the murder of Christians” by Nazi Germany (Dimont, 1994, pp. 391-392). In Poland alone 881 Catholic priests were annihilated (Azar, 1990, p. 154). In time many more priests would end up in concentration camps.

Christians in Dachau

Dachau concentration camp held the largest number of Catholic priests — over 2,400 — in the Nazi camp system. They came from about 24 nations, and included parish priests and prelates, monks and friars, teachers and missionaries. Over one third of the priests in Dachau alone were killed (Lenz, 2004). One Dachau survivor, Fr. Johannes Lenz, wrote an account of the Catholic holocaust. He claimed that the Catholic Church was the only steadfast fighter against the Nazis. Lenz tells the agony and martyrdom of the physical and mental tortures Dachau inmates experienced. Men and women were murdered by the thousands in Dachau, and those who survived were considered “missionaries in Hell.” The fact is, official Nazi works taught both anti-Semitic and anti-Christian doctrines:

http://www.trueorigin.org/hitler01.asp

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