Who are you?

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
What if the Father and Mother do not honor their children? Abuse, mental and physical and no respect for the children etc. What about that Jakey?
First of all, I am not Jakey. My name is Jacob.

patrick jane,

I do not know what you have gone through in life or what you are standing up for, who you are defending, protecting, or understanding what they are going through.

See Colossians 3:1-25 NASB.

Do you know about John the Baptist?

Malachi 4:4-6 NASB - 4 "Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel. 5 "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. 6 "He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse."

Luke 1:1-80 NASB - 1 Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, 3 it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; 4 so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught. 5 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah; and he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord. 7 But they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren, and they were both advanced in years. 8 Now it happened that while he was performing his priestly service before God in the appointed order of his division, 9 according to the custom of the priestly office, he was chosen by lot to enter the temple of the Lord and burn incense. 10 And the whole multitude of the people were in prayer outside at the hour of the incense offering. 11 And an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing to the right of the altar of incense. 12 Zacharias was troubled when he saw the angel, and fear gripped him. 13 But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your petition has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you will give him the name John. 14 "You will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb. 16 "And he will turn many of the sons of Israel back to the Lord their God. 17 "It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, TO TURN THE HEARTS OF THE FATHERS BACK TO THE CHILDREN, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous, so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." 18 Zacharias said to the angel, "How will I know this for certain? For I am an old man and my wife is advanced in years." 19 The angel answered and said to him, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news. 20 "And behold, you shall be silent and unable to speak until the day when these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their proper time." 21 The people were waiting for Zacharias, and were wondering at his delay in the temple. 22 But when he came out, he was unable to speak to them; and they realized that he had seen a vision in the temple; and he kept making signs to them, and remained mute. 23 When the days of his priestly service were ended, he went back home. 24 After these days Elizabeth his wife became pregnant, and she kept herself in seclusion for five months, saying, 25 "This is the way the Lord has dealt with me in the days when He looked with favor upon me, to take away my disgrace among men." 26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you." 29 But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was. 30 The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31 "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end." 34 Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?" 35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. 36 "And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month. 37 "For nothing will be impossible with God." 38 And Mary said, "Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her. 39 Now at this time Mary arose and went in a hurry to the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 "And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me? 44 "For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy. 45 "And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her by the Lord." 46 And Mary said:"My soul exalts the Lord, 47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 48 "For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave;For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed. 49 "For the Mighty One has done great things for me;And holy is His name. 50 "AND HIS MERCY IS UPON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION TOWARD THOSE WHO FEAR HIM. 51 "He has done mighty deeds with His arm;He has scattered those who were proud in the thoughts of their heart. 52 "He has brought down rulers from their thrones,And has exalted those who were humble. 53 "HE HAS FILLED THE HUNGRY WITH GOOD THINGS;And sent away the rich empty-handed. 54 "He has given help to Israel His servant,In remembrance of His mercy, 55 As He spoke to our fathers,To Abraham and his descendants forever." 56 And Mary stayed with her about three months, and then returned to her home. 57 Now the time had come for Elizabeth to give birth, and she gave birth to a son. 58 Her neighbors and her relatives heard that the Lord had displayed His great mercy toward her; and they were rejoicing with her. 59 And it happened that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child, and they were going to call him Zacharias, after his father. 60 But his mother answered and said, "No indeed; but he shall be called John." 61 And they said to her, "There is no one among your relatives who is called by that name." 62 And they made signs to his father, as to what he wanted him called. 63 And he asked for a tablet and wrote as follows, "His name is John." And they were all astonished. 64 And at once his mouth was opened and his tongue loosed, and he began to speak in praise of God. 65 Fear came on all those living around them; and all these matters were being talked about in all the hill country of Judea. 66 All who heard them kept them in mind, saying, "What then will this child turn out to be?" For the hand of the Lord was certainly with him. 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: 68 "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel,For He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people, 69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for usIn the house of David His servant-- 70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from of old-- 71 Salvation FROM OUR ENEMIES,And FROM THE HAND OF ALL WHO HATE US; 72 To show mercy toward our fathers,And to remember His holy covenant, 73 The oath which He swore to Abraham our father, 74 To grant us that we, being rescued from the hand of our enemies,Might serve Him without fear, 75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all our days. 76 "And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Most High;For you will go on BEFORE THE LORD TO PREPARE HIS WAYS; 77 To give to His people the knowledge of salvation By the forgiveness of their sins, 78 Because of the tender mercy of our God,With which the Sunrise from on high will visit us, 79 TO SHINE UPON THOSE WHO SIT IN DARKNESS AND THE SHADOW OF DEATH,To guide our feet into the way of peace." 80 And the child continued to grow and to become strong in spirit, and he lived in the deserts until the day of his public appearance to Israel.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
I believe the reward of following the law is death. And the reward for following Jesus who fulfilled the law perfectly is life. The reason why I say it's death is because I am a lawbreaker.

Do you believe the Father gave the law to Moses through Christ so that he could kill people?

Wouldn't that be counterproductive to his creation?
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
I don't play the 'Bible quote game' with people, as I am not a Bible worshipper. I consider Bible worship idolatry.

I am a non-religious Christian and philosophical taoist. I have faith in the ideal and promise of 'Christ', and I have been healed and saved from myself by God's love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity acting in me, and through me to others. And through others, to me.

I like the fact that you refer to yourself as a Christian who also converted to Judaism. I find this refreshingly honest. I have long been puzzled by why so many present day Christians think they have to believe and behave like ancient Jews, just because Jesus was a Jew. Because as we all know, Jews are not evangelical. They do not seek to convert others, and they do not believe anyone has to become a Jew to find and follow God. Jesus spoke as a Jew talking to other Jews, because that was generally who he was talking to at the time. But he never stated nor implied that anyone who is not a Jew, must become one. Or that non-Jews should believe and behave as if they were Jews.

Bottom line, the vast majority of todays Christians are not Jews, and are not therefor beholding to Judaic religious texts, ideology, laws, practices, or traditions. So why they keep insisting that they must, is puzzling to me.

That you have deliberately chosen to do so is a perfectly honest and reasonable choice, however. It's not necessary to being Christian, but it's an honest option for those who want it.

Nice to meet you. :)
If you are a Jew or a Christian you understand the importance of scripture. Consider the following.

Acts 17:10-12 NASB - 10 The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men.
 

PureX

Well-known member
If you are a Jew or a Christian you understand the importance of scripture. Consider the following.

Acts 17:10-12 NASB - 10 The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men.
Religion based on scripture is just empty dogma. Religions based on the reality of God's love in the lives of men and women are a pathway to peace and healing. I don't ignore the wisdom of scripture, but neither do I worship it as if it was written by God, Himself.

All men are fallible. All religion is prone to self-aggrandizement and phony self-righteousness. Test scripture against the spirit, not the spirit against the scripture. This last is a fatal error that many religious Christians fall prey to.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Religion based on scripture is just empty dogma. Religions based on the reality of God's love in the lives of men and women are a pathway to peace and healing. I don't ignore the wisdom of scripture, but neither do I worship it as if it was written by God, Himself.

All men are fallible. All religion is prone to self-aggrandizement and phony self-righteousness. Test scripture against the spirit, not the spirit against the scripture. This last is a fatal error that many religious Christians fall prey to.
Can you learn from this?

2 Timothy 3:14-17 NASB - 14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Can you learn from this?

2 Timothy 3:14-17 NASB - 14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
Can you see that nowhere in this quote does it say "I, God, wrote these words and so expect you to treat than as sacrosanct and infallible"?

And since God did not write them, but men did, why should I automatically take their ideas as my own? After all, they were no smarter than I am, nor any closer to God. They have no "divine authority" that I can see, even if they thought they did. So although they may claim to be speaking divine truth, I will still hold their words to the spirt of God within me, to see if they ring true. And where they do not, I will reject them.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Can you see that nowhere in this quote does it say "I, God, wrote these words and so expect you to treat than as sacrosanct and infallible"?

And since God did not write them, but men did, why should I automatically take their ideas as my own? After all, they were no smarter than I am, nor any closer to God. They have no "divine authority" that I can see, even if they thought they did. So although they may claim to be speaking divine truth, I will still hold their words to the spirt of God within me, to see if they ring true. And where they do not, I will reject them.
See Matthew 5:17-20 NASB.

Do you accept this as true?

John 1:45 NASB - 45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, "We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote--Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

I encourage you to read John 5. John 5:1-47 NASB.

John 5:39-47 NASB - 39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. 41 "I do not receive glory from men; 42 but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves. 43 "I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 "How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God? 45 "Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. 46 "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. 47 "But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

See Do you read?
Do you read the Torah? Do you read the Prophets? Do you read the Writings? Do you read the New Testament Scriptures?

Have you read the Gospels?
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Do you believe the Father gave the law to Moses through Christ so that he could kill people?
The law was given to prove all the world guilty, in need of a Savior.

Romans 3:19-20 KJV
(19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
(20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
God cursed humanity because of our descendants sin. We are not made to be unholy though.

In Romans 8:7 Paul said. "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be."

The natural human mind is not subject to the law of God, it was not designed to be. We need God's Spirit. We are not born with it, we must ask for it.

In Luke 11:13 NET Jesus asks, "If you then, although you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
 

PureX

Well-known member
See Matthew 5:17-20 NASB.

Do you accept this as true?
Not for me. Jesus was a Jew talking to other Jews in that quote. He was not talking to me, a non-Jew living two centuries later. He was telling his fellow Jews that he did not come to put an end to their religious adherence. As he did not put an end to his own. But he also did not admonish any non-Jew to become a Jew, or to follow Jewish laws, scriptures, prophesies, traditions, or rituals.

I am not a Jew, so Jesus was not talking to me in that quote. Nor in the others of a similar admonition.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Not for me. Jesus was a Jew talking to other Jews in that quote. He was not talking to me, a non-Jew living two centuries later. He was telling his fellow Jews that he did not come to put an end to their religious adherence. As he did not put an end to his own. But he also did not admonish any non-Jew to become a Jew, or to follow Jewish laws, scriptures, prophesies, traditions, or rituals.

I am not a Jew, so Jesus was not talking to me in that quote. Nor in the others of a similar admonition.
You can change your mind about any of this.

Do you know that Jesus is the Savior of the world?
 

PureX

Well-known member
You can change your mind about any of this.

Do you know that Jesus is the Savior of the world?
Jesus is not the savior of anyone. 'Christ' is. Christ is the state of God's spirit acting within us, and through us, as it acted within and through Jesus of Nazareth, in the story of his life, death, and resurrection. It is this 'Christ within' that heals us and saves us from ourselves. And that will heal the world through us, if we will let it.
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
I will still hold their words to the spirt of God within me, to see if they ring true. And where they do not, I will reject them.

And so PureX is a liberal with extreme secular values and no different than a straight up anti-theist.

There is no spirit of God in you, just you.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Jesus is not the savior of anyone. 'Christ' is. Christ is the state of God's spirit acting within us, and through us, as it acted within and through Jesus of Nazareth, in the story of his life, death, and resurrection. It is this 'Christ within' that heals us and saves us from ourselves. And that will heal the world through us, if we will let it.
Again, you can change your mind.

John 4:42 NASB - and they were saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world."

1 John 4:14 NASB - We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Mark 1:1 NASB - The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

1 John 2:23 NASB - Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

2 John 1:9 NASB - Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
 
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