ECT Which Gospel?

Interplanner

Well-known member
Heir,
the exact same. Most confusion about the Gospel and about salvation generally is over sin as debt vs sin as impurity. Sin as a debt is dealing with all our sins as things we did in the past, whether we are young or old. In Christ we are justified from those sins. Justification is not in the category of the modern term 'rationalization' because it would then be allowing a license to sin (I mention this because someone here at TOL just used justification in that sense yesterday in a thread. Not.). Instead, justification is a term from court proceedings and means the Judge has canceled the list of charges (Col 2:14) against a criminal, and at the same time, is crediting that person with a clean bill of righteousness. This term crediting is what imputed or transfered righteousness means in the NT (2 Cor 5:18). It is not inherent in the person; it is not something he has done. It is something another true human has done, however, and that was Christ. He was made a sin offering for us so that we could be the righteousness of God in Him.

Therefore:
Justification is God's work for us in Christ.

But sanctification is God's work in us through the Spirit.

Now let's talk about sin as impurity. These are the current ongoing sins or areas we are trying to improve on. With God's help of course, but not the past, historic, debt-clearing Christ did. Justification inspires sanctification; we clean up our act out of honor for Christ who loved us and gave himself up for us (Gal 2). We will never get total victory. Not until glorification in the new creation.

Since we will never get total victory, we are sent back to the Gospel to reinforce our hearts "whenever they condemn us" (I Jn 2) that we are justified from our sins. This is the new power of the Spirit over sin.

You can check some of the great hymns of our faith, and it will relate these clearly yet distinct:

"Rock of Ages...be of sin a double cure...save me from its guilt and power."

He means that two things are going on and we need the Gospel for guilt and then we need its inspiration and love for power over ongoing sin. That love for God is what 'kills' sin or 'puts it to death' (Col 3:1-4). There are several NT passages that show that we never 'outgrow' justification because anything we do in the future (any failures) will be things we need justification from; I Cor 2, 15, Rom 8.

This is the power of the new creation already at work. It is the way of the Spirit because the Spirit dwells in us richly (Eph 5:18) when the Word of Christ dwells in us richly (Col 3:16).

No need for two Gospels when you've grasped this one!
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Heir,
the exact same. Most confusion about the Gospel and about salvation generally is over sin as debt vs sin as impurity. Sin as a debt is dealing with all our sins as things we did in the past, whether we are young or old. In Christ we are justified from those sins. Justification is not in the category of the modern term 'rationalization' because it would then be allowing a license to sin (I mention this because someone here at TOL just used justification in that sense yesterday in a thread. Not.). Instead, justification is a term from court proceedings and means the Judge has canceled the list of charges (Col 2:14) against a criminal, and at the same time, is crediting that person with a clean bill of righteousness. This term crediting is what imputed or transfered righteousness means in the NT (2 Cor 5:18). It is not inherent in the person; it is not something he has done. It is something another true human has done, however, and that was Christ. He was made a sin offering for us so that we could be the righteousness of God in Him.

Therefore:
Justification is God's work for us in Christ.

But sanctification is God's work in us through the Spirit.

Now let's talk about sin as impurity. These are the current ongoing sins or areas we are trying to improve on. With God's help of course, but not the past, historic, debt-clearing Christ did. Justification inspires sanctification; we clean up our act out of honor for Christ who loved us and gave himself up for us (Gal 2). We will never get total victory. Not until glorification in the new creation.

Since we will never get total victory, we are sent back to the Gospel to reinforce our hearts "whenever they condemn us" (I Jn 2) that we are justified from our sins. This is the new power of the Spirit over sin.

You can check some of the great hymns of our faith, and it will relate these clearly yet distinct:

"Rock of Ages...be of sin a double cure...save me from its guilt and power."

He means that two things are going on and we need the Gospel for guilt and then we need its inspiration and love for power over ongoing sin. That love for God is what 'kills' sin or 'puts it to death' (Col 3:1-4). There are several NT passages that show that we never 'outgrow' justification because anything we do in the future (any failures) will be things we need justification from; I Cor 2, 15, Rom 8.

This is the power of the new creation already at work. It is the way of the Spirit because the Spirit dwells in us richly (Eph 5:18) when the Word of Christ dwells in us richly (Col 3:16).

No need for two Gospels when you've grasped this one!
When I ask, "what is the gospel of your salvation?" it's because there is more than one gospel in the bible, yet only one that is the word of truth (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), the gospel of your salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV).

Asking the question is the quickest way to see if someone has trusted the Lord for salvation believing what Christ did on the cross and God raising Him from the dead for our justification as Paul preached or an other gospel, a very real gospel, that was preached by Peter and the boys, but had requirements to a certain people of DOING something, unlike Paul's preaching of salvation to all men by NOT DOING anything.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
It's a loose expression I use to describe Peter and the 11. LOL You really should get yourself a life.

No, you make subtle negative remarks about Peter and the Apostles because you see them as a lesser people than Paul and Barnabas and those you claim who were in the "body" program.

You think your "body" gospel is superior to the "kingdom" gospel.

That's what happens when you divide Christ's people, you have to make one people superior to the other people.

As Andy C put it, you have "country club people" and the "slave people" in your two gospel system.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
That's basically your response because you reject the pure and preserved words of the Lord. Your god couldn't preserve them, only corrupt them.

Let's look at Matt 26:36 in the King James

(Matt 26:36 KJV) Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

Now, let's look at what the 1611 King James Bible Second Edition/Impression puplished in 1613 says:

(Matt 26:36 KJV) Then cometh Judas with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

Which King James Bible is correct?

Was it Jesus or Judas?

My guess is you will keep ignoring this, and pretend it doesn't exist.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Let's look at Matt 26:36 in the King James

(Matt 26:36 KJV) Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

Now, let's look at what the 1611 King James Bible Second Edition/Impression puplished in 1613 says:

(Matt 26:36 KJV) Then cometh Judas with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

Which King James Bible is correct?

Was it Jesus or Judas?

My guess is you will keep ignoring this, and pretend it doesn't exist.

where did you find that?
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Peter referred to those things as the futile way of life. So much for having them in addition.

When i was discussing the Gospel with a Messianic Jew they stayed with me until they said that I had to have their view of Acts 9 or else quit. That turned out to be a rehearsal of what Peter went through, and the precise problem was: they believed Peter went to Gentile homes but did not eat their food. What about the specific visions Peter saw? The MJs did not go there. The ultimatum was to believe that Peter did not eat.

So now you Heir might want to explain yourself in relation to Peter rehearsed.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
The Gospel of righteousness by faith (Rom 1) is specifically linked to justification. With that intro in Rom 1 we see why the most essential paragraph in all the Bible (Rom 3:21+) is about the good news of justification. We also see from Acts 13's sermon that when saying what the good news is, Paul summarized that it was that God has raised Christ from the dead, proving that there is justification from sin (v36+).

The Gospel is that there is justification from our debt of sin.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
where did you find that?

There have been numerous errors in different printings of the KJV.

See the following:



The Blasphemous Comma: Several editions: Luke 23:32 reads "And there were also two other malefactors [crucified with Jesus]." It should have read "And there were also two others, malefactors."

"Judas Bible", from 1611: This Bible has Judas, not Jesus, saying "Sit ye here while I go yonder and pray." (Matthew 26:36)

"Printers Bible", from 1612: In some copies Psalm 119:161 reads "Printers have persecuted me without a cause" rather than "Princes have persecuted me..."

"Wicked Bible", "Adulterous Bible" or "Sinner's Bible", from 1631: Barker and Lucas: Omits an important "not" from Exodus 20:14, making the seventh commandment read "Thou shalt commit adultery." The printers were fined £300 and most of the copies were recalled immediately. Only 11 copies are known to exist today.

"More Sea Bible", from 1641: "...the first heaven and the first earth were passed away and there was more sea" rather than "...the first heaven and the first earth were passed away and there was no more sea." (Revelation 21:1)

"Unrighteous Bible" or "Wicked Bible", from 1653: Cambridge Press: Another edition carrying this title omits a "not" before the word "inherit", making I Corinthians 6:9 read "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall inherit the kingdom of God?..." In addition, Romans 6:13 reads "Neither yield ye your members as instruments of righteousness into sin..." where it should read "unrighteousness".
"Sin On Bible", from 1716: Jeremiah 31:34[10] reads "sin on more" rather than "sin no more".

"Vinegar Bible", from 1717: J. Baskett, Clarendon Press: The chapter heading for Luke 20 reads "The Parable of the Vinegar" instead of "The Parable of the Vineyard." One reviewer called this particular edition "a Baskett full of errors," what with its being replete with numerous other specimens of typographical errata throughout. One copy sold for $5,000 in 2008.

"The Fools Bible", from 1763: Psalm 14:1 reads "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God", rather than "...there is no God". The printers were fined £3,000 and all copies ordered destroyed.
"Denial Bible", from 1792: The name Philip is substituted for Peter as the apostle who would deny Jesus in Luke 22:34.

"Murderer's Bible", from 1801: "Murmurers" is printed as "murderers", making Jude 16 read: "These are murderers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage."

"Lions Bible", from 1804: 1 Kings 8:19 reads "thy son that shall come forth out of thy lions", rather than "loins". This edition had another error in Numbers 35:18 which read: "The murderer shall surely be put together" rather than "...put to death".

"To-remain Bible", from 1805: In Galatians 4:29 a proof-reader had written in "to remain" in the margin, as an answer to whether a comma should be deleted. The note inadvertently became part of the text, making the edition read "But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit to remain, even so it is now."

"Discharge Bible", from 1806: "Discharge" replaces "charge" making I Timothy 5:21 read "I discharge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality."
"Standing Fishes Bible", from 1806: "Fishes" replaced "fishers" making Ezekiel 47:10 read "And it shall come to pass, that the fishes shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many."

"Idle Shepherd", from 1809: Zechariah 11:17 reads "the idle shepherd" rather than "idol shepherd".

"Ears To Ear Bible", from 1810: Edition which makes Matthew 13:43 read: "...Who has ears to ear, let him hear." The correct phrase should be "ears to hear". In the same edition, Hebrews 9:14 comes out as "How much more shall the blood of Christ ... purge your conscience from good works [should be "dead works"] to serve the living God."

"Wife-hater Bible", from 1810: "Wife" replaces "life" in this edition, making Luke 14:26 redundantly read "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own wife also, he cannot be my disciple."

"The Large Family Bible", from 1820: Isaiah 66:9 reads: "Shall I bring to birth and not cease to bring forth?" rather than "Shall I bring to birth and not cause to bring forth?".

"Rebecca's Camels Bible", from 1823: "Camels" replaces "damsels" in one instance, making Genesis 24:61 read "And Rebecca arose, and her camels, and they rode upon the camels, and followed the man: and the servant took Rebecca and went his way."

"Affinity Bible", from 1927: Contains a table of family affinities that includes the line "A man may not marry his grandmother's wife."

"Owl Bible", from 1944: "Owl" replaces "own", making 1 Peter 3:5 read, "For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their owl husbands." The error was caused by a printing plate with a damaged letter n.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
There have been numerous errors in different printings of the KJV.

See the following:



The Blasphemous Comma: Several editions: Luke 23:32 reads "And there were also two other malefactors [crucified with Jesus]." It should have read "And there were also two others, malefactors."

"Judas Bible", from 1611: This Bible has Judas, not Jesus, saying "Sit ye here while I go yonder and pray." (Matthew 26:36)

"Printers Bible", from 1612: In some copies Psalm 119:161 reads "Printers have persecuted me without a cause" rather than "Princes have persecuted me..."

"Wicked Bible", "Adulterous Bible" or "Sinner's Bible", from 1631: Barker and Lucas: Omits an important "not" from Exodus 20:14, making the seventh commandment read "Thou shalt commit adultery." The printers were fined £300 and most of the copies were recalled immediately. Only 11 copies are known to exist today.

"More Sea Bible", from 1641: "...the first heaven and the first earth were passed away and there was more sea" rather than "...the first heaven and the first earth were passed away and there was no more sea." (Revelation 21:1)

"Unrighteous Bible" or "Wicked Bible", from 1653: Cambridge Press: Another edition carrying this title omits a "not" before the word "inherit", making I Corinthians 6:9 read "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall inherit the kingdom of God?..." In addition, Romans 6:13 reads "Neither yield ye your members as instruments of righteousness into sin..." where it should read "unrighteousness".
"Sin On Bible", from 1716: Jeremiah 31:34[10] reads "sin on more" rather than "sin no more".

"Vinegar Bible", from 1717: J. Baskett, Clarendon Press: The chapter heading for Luke 20 reads "The Parable of the Vinegar" instead of "The Parable of the Vineyard." One reviewer called this particular edition "a Baskett full of errors," what with its being replete with numerous other specimens of typographical errata throughout. One copy sold for $5,000 in 2008.

"The Fools Bible", from 1763: Psalm 14:1 reads "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God", rather than "...there is no God". The printers were fined £3,000 and all copies ordered destroyed.
"Denial Bible", from 1792: The name Philip is substituted for Peter as the apostle who would deny Jesus in Luke 22:34.

"Murderer's Bible", from 1801: "Murmurers" is printed as "murderers", making Jude 16 read: "These are murderers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage."

"Lions Bible", from 1804: 1 Kings 8:19 reads "thy son that shall come forth out of thy lions", rather than "loins". This edition had another error in Numbers 35:18 which read: "The murderer shall surely be put together" rather than "...put to death".

"To-remain Bible", from 1805: In Galatians 4:29 a proof-reader had written in "to remain" in the margin, as an answer to whether a comma should be deleted. The note inadvertently became part of the text, making the edition read "But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit to remain, even so it is now."

"Discharge Bible", from 1806: "Discharge" replaces "charge" making I Timothy 5:21 read "I discharge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality."
"Standing Fishes Bible", from 1806: "Fishes" replaced "fishers" making Ezekiel 47:10 read "And it shall come to pass, that the fishes shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many."

"Idle Shepherd", from 1809: Zechariah 11:17 reads "the idle shepherd" rather than "idol shepherd".

"Ears To Ear Bible", from 1810: Edition which makes Matthew 13:43 read: "...Who has ears to ear, let him hear." The correct phrase should be "ears to hear". In the same edition, Hebrews 9:14 comes out as "How much more shall the blood of Christ ... purge your conscience from good works [should be "dead works"] to serve the living God."

"Wife-hater Bible", from 1810: "Wife" replaces "life" in this edition, making Luke 14:26 redundantly read "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own wife also, he cannot be my disciple."

"The Large Family Bible", from 1820: Isaiah 66:9 reads: "Shall I bring to birth and not cease to bring forth?" rather than "Shall I bring to birth and not cause to bring forth?".

"Rebecca's Camels Bible", from 1823: "Camels" replaces "damsels" in one instance, making Genesis 24:61 read "And Rebecca arose, and her camels, and they rode upon the camels, and followed the man: and the servant took Rebecca and went his way."

"Affinity Bible", from 1927: Contains a table of family affinities that includes the line "A man may not marry his grandmother's wife."

"Owl Bible", from 1944: "Owl" replaces "own", making 1 Peter 3:5 read, "For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their owl husbands." The error was caused by a printing plate with a damaged letter n.

"The Greek..."-Tettie the Clownie


Fraud.


Identify the infallible source authority, from which you were able to assess these errors, bible rejector.

Tet: Well, I just compare a bunch of fake bibles, all of them containing errors, and compare them with each other, to arrive at perfection, as to what the bible should say.

=Here is a bunch of fake bibles, and I will use them to "correct" each other, to arrive at the "no error" bible.

Can't be done, you moron.


How did you get so stupid, bible corrector/rejector?
 
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