When does the biblical day begin?

[S-word]

No, the Israelites remained in their dwellings until the morning after the midnight when the first born throughout Egypt were killed:

"And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning" (Ex.12:22).​

The Israelites as a whole may not have left their houses until sunrise of the 14th, and I never said that they did, but Moses and Aaron were called by the King in the darkness of the night of the 14th, sometime well after Midnight of the 14th, when God had killed all the first born males who were not protected by the blood of the lamb.

Exodus 12: 29; And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.

31 And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as ye have said.

And by the time they had got themselves organised, they left Egypt as the sun set on the 14th day of Passover, and the 15th, the first of the seven day festival of Unleavened Bread was Just beginning.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

No, it does not make sense. The passover was eaten with unleavened bread (Ex.12:80. so if you are right then the first meal with unleavened bread was on the 15th. And if you are right ten unleavened bread was eaten the next six days (Lev.23:6).

If you are right then that would mean that unleavened bread was eaten for seven days. However, the Scriptures reveal that it was eaten for eight days:

"In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even" (Ex.12:18).​

The Feast of Unleavened Bread lasted 7 days. The first day was the 15th and the last day was the 21st:

Leviticus 23:6
'Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.

However, they were not to eat unleavened bread from the when Evening began on the 14th, which is when the sun is setting, till the evening on the 21st, but the 14th Is called the Passover while the 15th is the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread:

Exodus 12:18-20
'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening. 'Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land. 'You shall not eat anything leavened; in all your dwellings you shall eat unleavened bread.'"

However, this was when God first gave Moses the instructions for the Feast of Unleavened Bread but 2000 years later in Jesus' time the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread was then considered day 13:

Mark 14:12
On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus' disciples asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"

This was because of what Esther had done when she fasted from the 13th to the 16th:

Esther 3:12
Then on the thirteenth day of the first month the royal secretaries were summoned.

Later that day:

Esther 4:15-16
15 Then Esther sent this reply to Mordecai: 16 “Go, gather together all the Jews who are in Susa, and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my attendants will fast as you do. When this is done, I will go to the king, even though it is against the law. And if I perish, I perish.”

Esther broke with tradition and rather than eat the Passover meal she decided to fast in the hope of receiving God’s Favour, as she was about to break a law that could have resulted in her receiving a death sentence. After this event many Jews fasted over these three days in recognition of this event that saved the Jewish people and so they had the Passover meal early, on the evening of the 13th and ate the lamb on the night of the 14th, I believe this was practised by the Essenes and after the last supper Jesus also fasted over these same three days, ending on the evening of the sixteenth day when He broke bread with Cleopas and the other disciple in Emmaus. He then immediately appeared to the eleven disciples in the upper room that night and asked for some broiled fish to eat. His disciples also fasted over that time just as Jesus had said they would:

Mark 2:19-20
19 Jesus answered, “How can the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? They cannot, so long as they have him with them. 20 But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them, and on that day they will fast.

This is not known by many Christians but is more familiar to Jews.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Lambs killed between the evenings...eaten the SAME DAY...the wrath passes over at midnight the SAME DAY 14th...15th begins in the morning...

Have we discussed that it is impossible to separate the darkness that was upon the face of the waters from the first Night of that first day when Light was created?

Ya need light to separate darkness from night...that light was called day...not evening...there is light in evening...

It says Evening and Morning not Morning and Evening:

Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Darkness came first and then the light, thus representing night followed by day.

Evening
noun
1.the period of time at the end of the day, usually from about 6 p.m. to bedtime.

Morning
noun
1.the period of time between midnight and noon, especially from sunrise to noon.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

4 hours is much too generous...Joseph came to ask permission of Pilate when it was already evening...and it still had to be verified...

Try walking 3 mph during rush hour on a annual high holiday...much less get an appointment with the courts late on TGIF...lol

Besides that is your issue only if it must be done by sundown when the new day begins...

Seeing as a meal had to be prepared and eaten in their homes that evening...who would be left to take down dead bodies to prevent them hanging overnight? That was forbidden...

Mathew 27 states Jesus died around 3pm:

45From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,c lemasabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”). 47When some of those standing there heard this, they said, “He’s calling Elijah.” 48Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. 49The rest said, “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to save him.” 50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. 51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people. 54When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!”

John 19 states that the Jewish leaders had the legs broken before Joseph of Arimathea went to Pilate (the video says it was the other way around?):

30When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. 31Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”c 37and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”d

38Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away. 39He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.e 40Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. 41At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

Mark 15 confirms that the centurion had already checked that Jesus was dead by the time Joseph asked Pilate:

44Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died. 45When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph. 46So Joseph bought some linen cloth,

Luke 23 also confirms that although evening was approaching when Joseph went to ask Pilate it shows that He had laid Jesus in the tomb before the Sabbath began and that the women watch this and they also prepared the spices when they went home:

50Now there was a man named Joseph, a member of the Council, a good and upright man, 51who had not consented to their decision and action. He came from the Judean town of Arimathea, and he himself was waiting for the kingdom of God. 52Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus’ body. 53Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen cloth and placed it in a tomb cut in the rock, one in which no one had yet been laid. 54It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin. 55The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

Sunset was around 7pm according to that time of year so this gave Joseph of Arimathea about 4 hours to go to Pilate, ask for the body, hear the centurion confirm Jesus had died, buy the linen (while Nicodemus bought the spices), go to the cross, take Jesus down, wash His Body, put the spices on, wrap Him in the shroud and lay Him in the tomb. The distance from Herods Palace to the Garden Tomb is less than 800 meters in a straight line but even doubling this would only take about 20 minutes to walk, at about 3 mph which I can easily do even when it's a busy shopping day in town.

So 4 hours is more than enough time to do all of this before sunset and the bodies had be at least taken down before the sunset because this was when the Sabbath was about to begin.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

yup He sure did...and that Day turned into evening...which turned into darkness but now called NIGHT because it then came to be morning--the first day completed.

And after the act of creating Light was done, every act of creation was done during the daylight portion of the day and then it came to be evening and then morning--the Xth day the act was done...then night came then the the morning and finally the day is complete and numbered

nope. Darkness was not called night...darkness was called night only after light...

daylight...the end of the day light...evening needs light...diminishing light...how did the first day ever have an evening to begin it?



Especially sunrise which divides the time period from midnight to noon into two days...

The act of creation done during the daylight portion...it came to be evening...into night...it came to be morning...the day now completed it is numbered...

Maybe we should move to other texts in the Bible? Just sayin'...

The reason you want to move on to other texts is because these texts (that are the most important for establishing when the day begins) are the most problematic to your argument.

Also if you wish to state here and now that the dictionary definitions are wrong then please just state that clearly.

God explains in the very first few verses when the day begins because this must be a very important point God wants to make and I believe this is because He wants us to know when the Sabbath starts. This is an interesting discussion

 

[clefty]

Yes, and that means that these events happened on the 14th, and not the 13th as you claim:

"Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare? And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready. And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer" (Lk.22:7-15).​

Last supper occured the evening portion of the day before the 14 the day the lambs were killed...they ate bread leavened no lamb mentioned...judas left they thought to buy things for the feast next day...(as if shops would be open on passover) and LEFT the room to go outside singing to pray and sleep and get arrested in the garden and into the trial and crucifixion the next morning of the day the lambs were killed...and He died

 

[S-word]

The Feast of Unleavened Bread lasted 7 days. The first day was the 15th and the last day was the 21st:

Leviticus 23:6
'Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.

However, they were not to eat unleavened bread from the when Evening began on the 14th, which is when the sun is setting, till the evening on the 21st, but the 14th Is called the Passover while the 15th is the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread:

Exodus 12:18-20
'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening. 'Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land. 'You shall not eat anything leavened; in all your dwellings you shall eat unleavened bread.'"

However, this was when God first gave Moses the instructions for the Feast of Unleavened Bread but 2000 years later in Jesus' time the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread was then considered day 13:

Mark 14:12
On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus' disciples asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"

This was because of what Esther had done when she fasted from the 13th to the 16th:

Esther 3:12
Then on the thirteenth day of the first month the royal secretaries were summoned.

Later that day:

Esther 4:15-16
15 Then Esther sent this reply to Mordecai: 16 “Go, gather together all the Jews who are in Susa, and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my attendants will fast as you do. When this is done, I will go to the king, even though it is against the law. And if I perish, I perish.”

Esther broke with tradition and rather than eat the Passover meal she decided to fast in the hope of receiving God’s Favour, as she was about to break a law that could have resulted in her receiving a death sentence. After this event many Jews fasted over these three days in recognition of this event that saved the Jewish people and so they had the Passover meal early, on the evening of the 13th and ate the lamb on the night of the 14th, I believe this was practised by the Essenes and after the last supper Jesus also fasted over these same three days, ending on the evening of the sixteenth day when He broke bread with Cleopas and the other disciple in Emmaus. He then immediately appeared to the eleven disciples in the upper room that night and asked for some broiled fish to eat. His disciples also fasted over that time just as Jesus had said they would:

Mark 2:19-20
19 Jesus answered, “How can the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? They cannot, so long as they have him with them. 20 But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them, and on that day they will fast.

This is not known by many Christians but is more familiar to Jews.

A very informative post, thank you.

BTW, the other disciple was Simeon the son of Cleophas and half brother to Jesus, Simon only recognised the man who travelled with them as the risen Christ, by the manner in which he broke the bread.

Cleophas returned to Jerusalem where the disciples, which included Simon Peter, and Simon the Patriot, were cowering in a darkened room, the only one missing that night, was Thomas Didymus Jude, who was called the Twin, and was another son of Cleophas/Alpheaus, and Cleophas cried out, "He has Risen, he appeared to Simon."

 

[clefty]

It says Evening and Morning not Morning and Evening:

Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Darkness came first and then the light, thus representing night followed by day.

Evening
noun
1.the period of time at the end of the day, usually from about 6 p.m. to bedtime.

Morning
noun
1.the period of time between midnight and noon, especially from sunrise to noon.

Yup it does...light was created was called day...becoming diminishing light called evening became no light darkness now called Night and then night it came to be morning--the first day of creation...finally day one...completed previously

All the subsequent works of creation were done during the daylight period of the day...THEN it became evening and it came to be morning...the Xth day of creation

"If we look at the essentials of a day of rest and reflection which has a religious orientation, it is possible to justify the shifting of Sabbath worship to Friday evening, the celebration of the vigil/night watch was moved back to the eve of the Feast as early as the middle ages..." (Judaism: Between Yesterday and Tomorrow, p. 518).

"...a sacred day of rest on the 7th day (the Sabbath). Days were reckoned from morning to morning..." (New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 11, pg. 1068).
"Following the reign of King Josiah (c. 640-609), and especially after the Babylonian exile, a number of significant and enduring changes occurred in the Israelite calendar showing that the Jews gradually adopted the Babylonian calendar of the time...The day however, was counted from evening to evening, after the Babylonian fashion...." (New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 11, section titled “Later Jewish Calendar”).

“...shortly after the beginning of the Greek period, [236 BC] came the change in the method of reckoning the day, from evening to evening instead of from morning to morning as of old...” (The Calendars of Ancient Israel, p. 146).

http://www.fcogl.org/english/literature/Article_Day begins in morning.pdf

 

[clefty]

The reason you want to move on to other texts is because these texts (that are the most important for establishing when the day begins) are the most problematic to your argument.

not at all...and if anything once clarified will reveal that indeed evening needs light diminishing light of which the night of the first day had none...


Also clarified is that once the act of creation was done it was declared good and then it came to be evening it came to morning...the Xth day of that creation act...evening and morning WERE (past tense) the Xth day of creation

By your count the act is done before the day even begins...evening into night...when is the act of creation actually complete? Placement within the text is key...if indeed it was evening first into night into morning then it should read:

And the evening and the morning were the first day...and He created Light and called it day...and evening and the morning were the second day...and He separated the waters...evening morning of 3rd day -- plants were made etc

But now the first day had no evening to begin it...you need light to seperate the darkness from night of the first day...you need diminishing light for an evening into the first night of the first day...there is none

The act of creation happened during the daytime portion of the day...and then it came to be evening..and then it came to be morning (after the night)--the Xth day of creation...evening and morning WERE the completed (it was over) Xth day of creation

Also if you wish to state here and now that the dictionary definitions are wrong then please just state that clearly.

God explains in the very first few verses when the day begins because this must be a very important point God wants to make and I believe this is because He wants us to know when the Sabbath starts. This is an interesting discussion

Yup

 

[S-word]

Yup it does...light was created was called day...becoming diminishing light called evening became no light darkness now called Night and then night it came to be morning--the first day of creation...finally day one...completed previously

All the subsequent works of creation were done during the daylight period of the day...THEN it became evening and it came to be morning...the Xth day of creation

"If we look at the essentials of a day of rest and reflection which has a religious orientation, it is possible to justify the shifting of Sabbath worship to Friday evening, the celebration of the vigil/night watch was moved back to the eve of the Feast as early as the middle ages..." (Judaism: Between Yesterday and Tomorrow, p. 518).

"...a sacred day of rest on the 7th day (the Sabbath). Days were reckoned from morning to morning..." (New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 11, pg. 1068).
"Following the reign of King Josiah (c. 640-609), and especially after the Babylonian exile, a number of significant and enduring changes occurred in the Israelite calendar showing that the Jews gradually adopted the Babylonian calendar of the time...The day however, was counted from evening to evening, after the Babylonian fashion...." (New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 11, section titled “Later Jewish Calendar”).

“...shortly after the beginning of the Greek period, [236 BC] came the change in the method of reckoning the day, from evening to evening instead of from morning to morning as of old...” (The Calendars of Ancient Israel, p. 146).

http://www.fcogl.org/english/literature/Article_Day begins in morning.pdf

Jesus ate the Passover meal with his disciples in the evening of the 12 hours of darkness on the 14th day of Abib as commanded by the Lord. HE was sentenced to death by Pilate at about the 6th hour of the 12 hours of darkness on the 14th day of Abib. HE was nailed to the cross on the 3rd hour of the 12 hours of daylight that followed the 12 hours of darkness on the 14th day of Abib. Darkness covered the land at the 6th hour of the 12 hours of daylight on the 14th day of Abib. Jesus died at the 9th hour of the 12 hours of day light on the 14th day of Abib, and was buried just as the sun was setting on the 14th day of Abib, and the evening of the 15th day of Abib was beginning, when the Jews, who had abandoned the one day festival of Passover and had incorporated the Passover meal into the evening and beginning of the first of their seven day festival of unleavened bread, were sitting down to eat of the Lamb that they had slaughtered between the two evenings that preceded their Passover.

The two evenings mentioned in the Hebrew bible, was Midday, when the sun began its descent and twilight as the sun began to sink below the horizon, 3PM would be the centre of the two evenings that preceded the Passover.

Thus sayeth the words of the Lord.

Your words do not take preference over the words of the Lord Clefty.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Yup it does...light was created was called day...becoming diminishing light called evening became no light darkness now called Night and then night it came to be morning--the first day of creation...finally day one...completed previously

All the subsequent works of creation were done during the daylight period of the day...THEN it became evening and it came to be morning...the Xth day of creation

"If we look at the essentials of a day of rest and reflection which has a religious orientation, it is possible to justify the shifting of Sabbath worship to Friday evening, the celebration of the vigil/night watch was moved back to the eve of the Feast as early as the middle ages..." (Judaism: Between Yesterday and Tomorrow, p. 518).

"...a sacred day of rest on the 7th day (the Sabbath). Days were reckoned from morning to morning..." (New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 11, pg. 1068).
"Following the reign of King Josiah (c. 640-609), and especially after the Babylonian exile, a number of significant and enduring changes occurred in the Israelite calendar showing that the Jews gradually adopted the Babylonian calendar of the time...The day however, was counted from evening to evening, after the Babylonian fashion...." (New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 11, section titled “Later Jewish Calendar”).

“...shortly after the beginning of the Greek period, [236 BC] came the change in the method of reckoning the day, from evening to evening instead of from morning to morning as of old...” (The Calendars of Ancient Israel, p. 146).

http://www.fcogl.org/english/literature/Article_Day begins in morning.pdf

You will need to proved a better source for that, that is contemporary to the time that it changed. Also, and most importantly this is impossible because if Jesus did not keep the correct Sabbath then He would not have fulfilled the law and would not have been an acceptable offering to God.

Your argument has just fallen down big time. If the change had have occurred after Jesus death and you had contemporary documented evidence then you may have had a chance but this is incontrovertible proof that it is nothing more than here-say.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

not at all...and if anything once clarified will reveal that indeed evening needs light diminishing light of which the night of the first day had none...


Also clarified is that once the act of creation was done it was declared good and then it came to be evening it came to morning...the Xth day of that creation act...evening and morning WERE (past tense) the Xth day of creation

By your count the act is done before the day even begins...evening into night...when is the act of creation actually complete? Placement within the text is key...if indeed it was evening first into night into morning then it should read:

And the evening and the morning were the first day...and He created Light and called it day...and evening and the morning were the second day...and He separated the waters...evening morning of 3rd day -- plants were made etc

But now the first day had no evening to begin it...you need light to seperate the darkness from night of the first day...you need diminishing light for an evening into the first night of the first day...there is none

The act of creation happened during the daytime portion of the day...and then it came to be evening..and then it came to be morning (after the night)--the Xth day of creation...evening and morning WERE the completed (it was over) Xth day of creation



Yup

You also believe that on day one it was dark then light then dark again? Which is not what it says. It says it was dark and then light. Evening and then morning. But this is incidental, now that I know your argument is trying to say that Jesus broke the law.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Last supper occured the evening portion of the day before the 14 the day the lambs were killed...

No, it happened on the 14th, after the lambs were killed:

"Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare? And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready. And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer" (Lk.22:7-15).

 

[WeberHome]

-
I used to be very confused with the language of the passages below until I caught on that the lamb dinner and the feast of unleavened bread begin together.

● Ex 12:8 . . And they shall eat the flesh that same night, roasted with fire, and they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.

● Ex 12:18 . . In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

● Lev 23:5-6 . . In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Once I caught on to what those passages are saying I understood that both the lamb and the bread straddle the 14th and the 15th because Bible days and nights begin and end together at sundown. I pity the poor souls who haven't got that figured out yet.

/

 

[jamie]

● Ex 12:18 . . In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

Yes, the observers of the law understood a new day began at the evening that began night. That night was designated a special night to be observed each year as a memorial. (Exodus 12:42)

 

[clefty]

Jesus ate the Passover meal with his disciples in the evening of the 12 hours of darkness on the 14th day of Abib as commanded by the Lord. HE was sentenced to death by Pilate at about the 6th hour of the 12 hours of darkness on the 14th day of Abib. HE was nailed to the cross on the 3rd hour of the 12 hours of daylight that followed the 12 hours of darkness on the 14th day of Abib. Darkness covered the land at the 6th hour of the 12 hours of daylight on the 14th day of Abib. Jesus died at the 9th hour of the 12 hours of day light on the 14th day of Abib, and was buried just as the sun was setting on the 14th day of Abib, and the evening of the 15th day of Abib was beginning, when the Jews, who had abandoned the one day festival of Passover and had incorporated the Passover meal into the evening and beginning of the first of their seven day festival of unleavened bread, were sitting down to eat of the Lamb that they had slaughtered between the two evenings that preceded their Passover.

The two evenings mentioned in the Hebrew bible, was Midday, when the sun began its descent and twilight as the sun began to sink below the horizon, 3PM would be the centre of the two evenings that preceded the Passover.

Thus sayeth the words of the Lord.

Your words do not take preference over the words of the Lord Clefty.

It was leavened bread they ate at the last supper...and they went out to the garden...disciples thought Judas was buying stuff for the feast...what shop would be open on passover?

 

[clefty]

You will need to proved a better source for that, that is contemporary to the time that it changed. Also, and most importantly this is impossible because if Jesus did not keep the correct Sabbath then He would not have fulfilled the law and would not have been an acceptable offering to God.

Your argument has just fallen down big time. If the change had have occurred after Jesus death and you had contemporary documented evidence then you may have had a chance but this is incontrovertible proof that it is nothing more than here-say.

Nothing in scripture about His keeping Sabbath Friday night...it was the correct Sabbath DAY...nowhere is there anything about Sabbath night...

 

[clefty]

You also believe that on day one it was dark then light then dark again? Which is not what it says. It says it was dark and then light. Evening and then morning. But this is incidental, now that I know your argument is trying to say that Jesus broke the law.

Oh my...how much longer are you going to be histrionic about all this...nowhere did I say He broke the law...

And well I have repeated it often now...

It was dark...but not called NIGHT...and then Light was created called day and then it became evening...and then morning...the first day...complete now...

And then the action of the second day began during the daylight period and then it was evening again...then morning--the second day finally compete...

You do see the pattern of the act of creation done on the daylight portion it the comes to be evening and then morning and then the numbering of that day complete...evening and morning WERE the Xth day...

Please seperate the night of the first day from the darkness before it...you cant...

Because NIGHT followed DAY...as Light was created and evening came and it was dark again but this time the darkness is called NIGHT...see? Coming AFTER DAY...

 

[clefty]

No, it happened on the 14th, after the lambs were killed:

"Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare? And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready. And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer" (Lk.22:7-15).

Now the last supper happened AFTER the lambs were killed? Why did they eat leavened bread then?

 

[clefty]

-
I used to be very confused with the language of the passages below until I caught on that the lamb dinner and the feast of unleavened bread begin together.

● Ex 12:8 . . And they shall eat the flesh that same night, roasted with fire, and they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.

● Ex 12:18 . . In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

● Lev 23:5-6 . . In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Once I caught on to what those passages are saying I understood that both the lamb and the bread straddle the 14th and the 15th because Bible days and nights begin and end together at sundown. I pity the poor souls who haven't got that figured out yet.

/

Rather pity those who ignore that it was leavened bread broken at the last supper not unleavened as Passover required...

Pity too the Lambs to be eaten the SAME DAY they are offered...that is the 14th

And those the Wrath killed passing over on the 14th...