What is the express image of God?

[Ps82]

Bump - Keypurr - just taking some time off? or Not sure what you want to say?
I'll keep checking in until TG and company grabs my time away.

 

[keypurr]

I'm gonna post this here. I replied to this in another thread.

For your reference in the KJV

Hbr 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

"who being in the brightness of his glory" Who's glory?

express image is charaktēr not eikon image We find image of the invisible God in Col. "the image of the unseen"

Express image is seeing the character of real person inside
NASB

Hbr 1:3
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,


That is what express image is "character" of God's true nature

I agreed with you at one time. But not any more. God is spirit and so is his express image who is his real son.

 

[keypurr]

Thanks for the scripture - I'll check it out in context.

For me The Christ was a spiritual entity (being God) ... and the Christ became a spiritual + a finite entity when the ONE creator manifested his own presence within the world as Our Savior Lord Jesus the Christ.

The Christ had two natures at that time: The Spirit of God + the image of God in mortal flesh.

The Father had similar natures being: The Spirit of God + the image of God in a super-natural angelic form - called the Angel of God and the Angel of the LORD.

John 17:3
This was a prayer that was recorded for us that our Lord Jesus spoke out loud.
Christ makes a request in verse three which was that people would know the only true God AND Jesus Christ whom was sent by God.

In verse 5 Christ goes on to explain that HE (being the WORD/ the Christ/the Savior of Isaiah 43:11/My Lord/the Son of God-son of man) had shared the glory that belonged to God with God the Father before the world was.

The reason that Lord Jesus said that he shared the glorious presence with the Father before the world was ... is because God created only ONE image for his personal use.

God came as the Father bearing that ONE image and God came as the Promised Son/the Christ/the WORD bearing that same ONE image.

Eternal life is knowing the Father and the Jesus. They are the ONE God!

God created all things. All things were created by HIM and for HIM!

God was able to reveal himself as both the originator and the inheritor. God is they and they are Him.

But we must not overlook the fact that his express image is a creation.

Keypurr,
I have a question for you:

How do you interpret this NT verse ...
Matthew 1:
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is - God with us.

when it is linked with these OT verses?

Isaiah 7:14 (A sign for house of David of Immanuel)
14 Therefore the LORD himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:11
11 I (God), even I am the LORD, beside ME there is no savior.

Isaiah 45:21,22
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together:
Who hath declared this from ancient time?
Who hath told it from that time?
Have not I the LORD?
And there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside ME.
22 Look unto ME and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I AM God, and there is none else.

Keypurr, this is why we must look upon (acknowledge) that our Lord Jesus the Christ is the Savior who is God that saves.


What do you say about these verses?

God is telling you he is sending a Savior into the world. It does not say he is sending himself. Christ is a servant of his God, he came with powers. He is telling you that there is no other God but him. Christ NEVER said he was God.

 

[keypurr]

Bump - Keypurr - just taking some time off? or Not sure what you want to say?
I'll keep checking in until TG and company grabs my time away.

I came back, see my posts.

 

[Ps82]

Hi Keypurr:
You wrote:

But we must not overlook the fact that his express image is a creation.

You know I agree with you about his. God's chosen image was created by God and used by God to reveal himself as the Father and the Son

You also wrote:

God is telling you he is sending a Savior into the world. It does not say he is sending himself. Christ is a servant of his God, he came with powers. He is telling you that there is no other God but him. Christ NEVER said he was God.

But the book of Isaiah also tells us who the Christ/Savior/Son/Redeemer will be.
Isaiah 43:11
I (God) even I, am the LORD (the name God gave to his created image Exodus 33:19; Exodus 34:6) beside ME (God as LORD) there is no Savior.

Isaiah 45:21 .... Have not I the LORD (declared this from ancient time)? And there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband: the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy one of Israel; the God of the whole earth shall he be called.

IOW - the Redeemer is the God of the whole earth - the Maker called LORD.

Isaiah 9:8
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, The everlasting Father, The Prince of peace.

Is it any wonder that our Lord Jesus said that he and the Father are ONE?

God did reveal that he was God. In fact, the religious leaders in his day even understood that this was what he was implying. That is why they wanted to kill him - because they understood by what he was saying that he was God.
John 10:30-33
I and my Father are one (IOW - one and the same).
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them "Many good works have I showed you from my Fatehr, for which of those works do ye stone me?"
33 The Jews answered him, saying, "For a good work we stone you not; but for blasphemy; and because you, being a man, make yourself God."

When Jesus said that he and the Father are ONE ... they understood that he meant that he was saying he was God; therefore, they wanted to stone him ... for they did not want to accept the truth about who he was.

Of course you know all the verses about how: Anyone who has SEEN ME (Lord Jesus) has seen The Father.

How much more clear can Jesus be about his being the Father God come as God the Son?

John the Baptist tells us that when people saw our Lord Jesus that it was the first time ever that anyone had seen God, as the begotten the Son.

John 1:18
No man at any time (before that age) hath seen God, the only begotten Son, which is (by the time this was recorded already) in the bosom of the Father, he (John the Baptist) hath declared HIM (God the Son).

 

[Ps82]

keypurr, you wrote to tomlapalm:

I agreed with you at one time. But not any more. God is spirit and so is his express image who is his real son.

I agree with you that God is Spirit and invisible ... BUT God's express image is visible and was created by God in order to reveal his presence when he came among men. God appeared as the Father with a super-natural image... Exodus 24

And God appeared once again unto men when he appeared as the Son with a natural mortal flesh image. Colossians 1 tells us that Jesus was the express image belonging to God ... and it tells us that the image God created is known as the first born of all creatures.

Colossians 1:15
(Lord Jesus) Who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature.

The image of the Son was not spirit ... but was in the form of flesh and blood.
The image of the Father was not an invisible Spirit ... but was of a super-natural visible angelic form ... That is why IT was sometimes called: The Angel of God, or by its name - The Angel of the LORD.

 

[Truster]

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


Who or What is this EXPRESS image of God?

1. God is a spirit, so his image would be a spirit.
2. This is God's firstborn of every creature, a creation.
3. This spirit has deity for it has the fullness of the father.
4. This spirit was with God before the creation, creation was done through this spirit.
5. This spirit is a form of God

I use the term Christ spirit to discribe this image.

What do YOU think it is?

Go back to the Creation narrative and read about image and likeness. It carries on until Seth is mentioned as being in the image and likeness of Adam. It may take a while, but focus on what was created and what was lost. Then you'll have your answer.
And once you have that answer a flood gate opens up…

 

[oatmeal]

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


Who or What is this EXPRESS image of God?

1. God is a spirit, so his image would be a spirit.
2. This is God's firstborn of every creature, a creation.
3. This spirit has deity for it has the fullness of the father.
4. This spirit was with God before the creation, creation was done through this spirit.
5. This spirit is a form of God

I use the term Christ spirit to discribe this image.

What do YOU think it is?

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,

What or who?

Jesus Christ, the son of God, is the effulgence of God's glory and the resulting impression of God's underlying principles upon Jesus Christ by Jesus Christ choosing to love and believe God via scriptures.

 

[keypurr]

Hi Keypurr:
You wrote:

You know I agree with you about his. God's chosen image was created by God and used by God to reveal himself as the Father and the Son

You also wrote:


But the book of Isaiah also tells us who the Christ/Savior/Son/Redeemer will be.
Isaiah 43:11
I (God) even I, am the LORD (the name God gave to his created image Exodus 33:19; Exodus 34:6) beside ME (God as LORD) there is no Savior.

Isaiah 45:21 .... Have not I the LORD (declared this from ancient time)? And there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband: the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy one of Israel; the God of the whole earth shall he be called.

IOW - the Redeemer is the God of the whole earth - the Maker called LORD.

Isaiah 9:8
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, The everlasting Father, The Prince of peace.

Is it any wonder that our Lord Jesus said that he and the Father are ONE?

God did reveal that he was God. In fact, the religious leaders in his day even understood that this was what he was implying. That is why they wanted to kill him - because they understood by what he was saying that he was God.
John 10:30-33
I and my Father are one (IOW - one and the same).
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them "Many good works have I showed you from my Fatehr, for which of those works do ye stone me?"
33 The Jews answered him, saying, "For a good work we stone you not; but for blasphemy; and because you, being a man, make yourself God."

When Jesus said that he and the Father are ONE ... they understood that he meant that he was saying he was God; therefore, they wanted to stone him ... for they did not want to accept the truth about who he was.

Of course you know all the verses about how: Anyone who has SEEN ME (Lord Jesus) has seen The Father.

How much more clear can Jesus be about his being the Father God come as God the Son?

John the Baptist tells us that when people saw our Lord Jesus that it was the first time ever that anyone had seen God, as the begotten the Son.

John 1:18
No man at any time (before that age) hath seen God, the only begotten Son, which is (by the time this was recorded already) in the bosom of the Father, he (John the Baptist) hath declared HIM (God the Son).

I consider the God who sent a redeemer is the the true savoir of the world.
My PC is not working properly at this time but I will try to give you answers to your questions soon.

 

[JosephR]

GOD is anything he wishes.... for GOD cannot lie for all he says becomes real..

physical or spiritual....

 

[keypurr]

Go back to the Creation narrative and read about image and likeness. It carries on until Seth is mentioned as being in the image and likeness of Adam. It may take a while, but focus on what was created and what was lost. Then you'll have your answer.
And once you have that answer a flood gate opens up…

Understand that man was made in the image of God but in what way?
Also understand that there is only one express image of God that was created BEFORE everything else. In fact, this express image created all for his Father. This express image is spirit like his creator. This is much more than a man. Jesus was a man, but Christ is spirit. Jesus is the body prepared for God's son Christ. Hebrews 10:5.

 

[beloved57]

keypur

Understand that man was made in the image of God but in what way?

By being made in the Image of Christ ! Adam was the figure of Him to come. Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

The figure means:

I.
the mark of a stroke or blow, print

II.
a figure formed by a blow or impression
A.
of a figure or image

B.
of the image of the gods


III.
form

So Christ was God to come in the Flesh ! That proves Christ is Elohim also. I have explained this to you many times before, but you do not believe, because you cannot, God has blinded you pal !

 

[Ps82]

I consider the God who sent a redeemer is the the true savoir of the world.
My PC is not working properly at this time but I will try to give you answers to your questions soon.

Of course God is the redeemer. He claimed that he was in Isaiah 43:11.

That is why our Lord Jesus having claimed to be God and making the Jews so angry ... and his saying that people correctly called him Lord are such wonderful revelation. This is the very reason he was said to be Emmanuel (God among men).

The key to how the ONE God could be known as the Father AND the Son is to understand how God used HIS image among men.

 

[Truster]

Understand that man was made in the image of God but in what way?
Also understand that there is only one express image of God that was created BEFORE everything else. In fact, this express image created all for his Father. This express image is spirit like his creator. This is much more than a man. Jesus was a man, but Christ is spirit. Jesus is the body prepared for God's son Christ. Hebrews 10:5.

I spent years on the difference between image and likeness. Every commentary I've read says they are both the same and every concordance says the same. But they are not the same. Image and likeness are two different words and have two different meanings.

You cannot waste time on this study, because that is what is required. You may feel as if you are going round in circles and you are, but if and when you are given the answer you'll wonder why you didn't see it before. Like looking for your handset when its in your hand…been there?

 

[keypurr]

keypurr, you wrote to tomlapalm:





I agree with you that God is Spirit and invisible ... BUT God's express image is visible and was created by God in order to reveal his presence when he came among men. God appeared as the Father with a super-natural image... Exodus 24



And God appeared once again unto men when he appeared as the Son with a natural mortal flesh image. Colossians 1 tells us that Jesus was the express image belonging to God ... and it tells us that the image God created is known as the first born of all creatures.



Colossians 1:15

(Lord Jesus) Who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature.



The image of the Son was not spirit ... but was in the form of flesh and blood.

The image of the Father was not an invisible Spirit ... but was of a super-natural visible angelic form ... That is why IT was sometimes called: The Angel of God, or by its name - The Angel of the LORD.

Think again my friend. The express image of an invisible God can not be seen. Like the wind you can only see the effects of it. Christ, the spiritual son of God is an invisible spirit. God did not come to us, he sent his son Christ to dwell in Jesus, the body God prepared for Christ. Christ, the invisible express image of God is God's firstborn. All things God created were created by his first creation, Christ. Christ became flesh and blood when he entered Jesus.


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[Bright Raven]

Think again my friend. The express image of an invisible God can not be seen. Like the wind you can only see the effects of it. Christ, the spiritual son of God is an invisible spirit. God did not come to us, he sent his son Christ to dwell in Jesus, the body God prepared for Christ. Christ, the invisible express image of God is God's firstborn. All things God created were created by his first creation, Christ. Christ became flesh and blood when he entered Jesus.


Posted from the TOL App!

Acts 7:54-55

King James Version (KJV)

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Jesus is visible friend.

 

[keypurr]

keypur







By being made in the Image of Christ ! Adam was the figure of Him to come. Rom 5:14



14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.



The figure means:



I.

the mark of a stroke or blow, print



II.

a figure formed by a blow or impression

A.

of a figure or image



B.

of the image of the gods





III.

form



So Christ was God to come in the Flesh ! That proves Christ is Elohim also. I have explained this to you many times before, but you do not believe, because you cannot, God has blinded you pal !

I disagree, God did not come in the flesh, HE SENT HIS SON. Christ is the ONLY express image of the father. I understand it is not easy to kick old thoughts, but if you wish to see truth you must allow yourself room to see what could be. God gave man the power to think and rationalize, but his express image is far greater than man. It deserves your full attention. God is spirit, so is Christ. God calls Christ a god in Hebrews 1, but then he states that "God, your God", telling us that the father is the God in charge. Consider Hebrews 1 again.


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[keypurr]

Acts 7:54-55



King James Version (KJV)



54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.



55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,



Jesus is visible friend.

Did you notice the word AND?

The glory of God AND Jesus standing on his right.


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[Bright Raven]

Did you notice the word AND?

The glory of God AND Jesus standing on his right.


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And if the Glory and Jesus are both the same, how do you tell the difference?

 

[keypurr]

I spent years on the difference between image and likeness. Every commentary I've read says they are both the same and every concordance says the same. But they are not the same. Image and likeness are two different words and have two different meanings.

You cannot waste time on this study, because that is what is required. You may feel as if you are going round in circles and you are, but if and when you are given the answer you'll wonder why you didn't see it before. Like looking for your handset when its in your hand…been there?

If you think it is a waste of time don't study it. But the plain truth is I have very reasonable theory about the EXPRESS IMAGE of God. Some translations word it in a different manner but it says the same. If you could see what I see it will completely revamp your understanding of scripture. Christ is a creation, the first creation. Christ is spirit like his father.


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