Town Quixote's

[Town Heretic]

The Wrap
on Monday



Chimed in on a curious note by...

You ever wondered what the "best thing" was before sliced bread?

Swinging doors.

No, before sliced bread the best thing was just bread...which was great. And then some progressive had to make sure everyone got the same amount...except for the poor bastard who got an end piece.

Liberals.

Then...

People didn't trust sliced bread at first, they thought that slicing it before hand just meant that it would all mold faster. And they were right.

And that's how you get penicillin...or cheese. Something. Chemistry was a morning class.

re: liberals

Where?

Where aren't they...I mean except for the Electoral College. lain:

Regarding Trump links in Scotland...

Why aren't people mad at Scotland for letting him do it?

Maybe he didn't ask, just walked up and grabbed the land, started building all over it. You know, like a star. lain:

On sports...though if the Chiefs keep the winning going I may have to find a Brown's fan to torment...

Hey meshak, hey everyone. :wave2: I haven't been in here in a while.

This is normally where I'd say, "Like the Chiefs in the end zone"...but I'm not going to. :nono:

CC just roared off the rails with...

Making an argument is what lawyers do who get rapists and murderers off in trials. Its no wonder that is your focus, because you do the same: Make pointy-headed argujents to defend infanticide

Actually I've been against abortion for as long as I've had an opinion on it, long before my conversion to Christianity. It's a blight on the nation, our latest moral and ethical tragedy and I've never defended the practice or confused it with a right. It is an abrogation of right.

If you were actually a person of any importance you might be dangerous.

There are only two people I need to be important to and that works for me. If I was a person of any particular importance you'd never have a moment with me.

So fool was educating me on some of the back chatter about Palin...

Azealia Banks wanted Palin gang raped;
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...ealia-banks-over-profanity-filled-tweets.html

Well, that's now isn't it? We were talking about her run as VP. . . though my first thought was, "Azealiz who?"

And Martin Bashir had to resign from MSNBC after he said someone should **** in her mouth;
http://www.salon.com/2013/12/04/mar...msnbc_over_controversial_sarah_palin_comment/

That's a pretty big deal. Martin Bashir was a major face.

Can you really use "major face" and MSNBC in the same sentence?

Cruc went into a discourse on methodology...

I don't need to back what needs no backup.

No one does. But that's not what we're talking about.

All one needs to do is look out their window and behold, it may even give you a wave

If looking out the window is how you determine any truth other than "what's outside my window" that explains a lot about the education you didn't get.

I think you all are in denial about many things, and so it's like convincing a wall that it's a wall.

You might think cheese is money, but it won't help you spend it.

And global warming may be debated, but...

I can argue fine,

Let me know if you ever present evidence to back that thesis statement.

Before accusing me of supporting:

homoseuality,

Gay readings of Seuss? No.

big taxes,

No, I like my taxes the regular size. Money too. It's a pain to carry around giant bills. lain: Unless you're a large stork...but that's only common sense.

and you spend all day every day defending it, and finally you tell everyone else they can't make an argument.

No, just people like you who can't.

You are scum - the slimiest of scum. I hope you have a friggin heart attack and croak.That way you'll finally stand in front of someone who you can't argue with, and you'll get whats coming to you.

And now you speak for God. That's some hat trick...but the hats too big for you, which is impressive.

Tomorrow? :think: That's going to leave a mark.

 

[Town Heretic]

Video Bonus: very funny

 

[Town Heretic]

The Wrap
on Thursday


Nonon advanced a conspiracy theory...

It's not like Trump is pardoning them. He said he wasn't taking the investigations off the table. What would you do in this situation? Press charges on Hillary and have Obama pardon her? Gotta wait till he's president!

So you're saying he's not telling the truth now? Or was he not telling the truth then?

It's a pickle. :chew: And who doesn't like pickles?

Then Cruc raised a flag with ye olde and griffins...

Tradition works,

Not as an argument. It's a logical fallacy.

...There has never been a universal idea of feminism

Curiously, not your standard of proof for any other idea. lain:

Before continuing on his merry, misogynistic way...

Feminist men fail to discern the difference between a legitimate concern and simply being self-centered.

You can't tell the difference between an argument and just saying something.

feminism is animosity driven, which you deny.

Well, I'm rational, so yeah.

Fool chimed in on Trump's decision not to try to try Hillary after all...

The Donald shows his great Mercy!

Maybe. Some around here seem to think he's lying and that it's okay to do that so long as you're not in the media. oly:

While PJ reminded anyone who hadn't noticed...

The majority of ELECTORAL votes go to TRUMP !

Which is like saying more land supported him and more people supported her. lain: Which is something.

Differed with rm on the EC...

...In a pure democracy yes, but in a representative republic no.

The EC isn't necessitated by the Republic. Look, I understand why the decision was made to create it, why popular vote was considered and ultimately rejected and the initial ideas are sensible, but the concerns are largely outdated by technology. Before mass communication was possible the founders were concerned that you'd essentially have popular sons in states or regions supported by their area of the country and this would make it nearly impossible to elect a president with a popular majority. Most people would have thin to no real exposure to competing candidates, couldn't then really make an informed decision. Technology has eliminated that concern. Slavery and suffrage have been dealt with. There's not a particularly compelling reason to keep the EC now.

To my mind the real question is: is there sufficient reason to go through the trouble to eliminate it given that as I noted the popular vote and the electoral vote have only contrasted as an outcome five times in the nation's history, and given getting rid of it would take a Constitutional convention. That's a lot of work for an exception, though given the importance of the exception, maybe its enough even so.

In the end we do not elect the president of San Francisco, New York city, Chicago, or Los Angeles where the major populace lives we elect a president for the many that do not live in the urban areas and have an equal voice in their state under this system, even the people in rural Nebraska or North Dakota have a voice, and to deny them an equal voice through mob rule which is what you are positing creates a disservice to them & the states

That's just a way to suggest the few should have more power than the many or that land should should be given a vote. We have a Congress and a House that are popularly elected to represent the regional and more narrow interests. The president is supposed to represent the whole. Nothing represents the whole better than a pure expression of their will. And one man's mob is another's "We, the people."

When glory took exception to my note that rm and others who want Trump to go after Hillary are essentially attempting to make the prosecutor a political tool fashioned for a do-over...

Just because you claim the other guy's view is "political" doesn't make it so.

What makes it political is that he wants the same process but with another administration. That's hoping for a different outcome with a different political party at the helm.

We actually might disagree with what this president and this AG does because they have injected their own politics into what should be a totally legal process.

Well, the president didn't actually decide anything here. And the AG followed the recommendation of the FBI. The head of the FBI, once praised and easily put into his position by both right and left, made the decision upon recommendations of his experts and a consideration of the facts.

But then/so...

By golly, you're still thinking you're smarter than everyone else. :chuckle:

No, not everyone else.

Then fool was back with speculation over the Oval Office remodel conspiracy...

It doesn't take a year to put in windows.

It does when the government is in charge of it. lain:

Speaking of...

The current Oval office wasn't completed until 1939 so it's not a huge deal to move to another room and hang out there. I can see Trump renovating the entire White House it is after all what he does.

:think: I wonder how long it will take to gilt everything.

And elsewhere, Spit lamented...

Wow. I killed this thread.

Not if you believe that brain activity is required for a thing to be living. lain:

Before things turned ugly...well, no, but they could have...maybe...

Well, this thread was fewer than 20 posts away from achieving relevance according to your own metrics

But keep in mind that car wrecks attract attention.

prior to its sudden demise

You mean right up until you made it disco.

Surely it wouldn't come that close without some kind of intellectual engagement.

That's just...adorable.

Tomorrow? Horses of varying colors, Scottish migrations, and I contemplate a gift list. oly:

 

[Town Heretic]

The Wrap
on Friday


So fool and a few of us were having a conversation about Trump's Scotland golf course and, well...

Have you ever gone to visit your mother's birthplace and ended up building a golf course on a protected wetland?

He has.

But you know he knows more about building in wetlands than the environmentalists, believe him. He will build the (deleted) out of them. lain:

And before you know it...

Why would you close off a perfectly good coastal area full of nothing but rare birds when you could put in a golf course?

See, that's just ridiculous on its face...I mean, how could a bird even begin to hold the clubs? :think:

Now a golf course in an area where you have an inordinate amount of monkeys, different matter. Give me a congress of baboons (or, in the case of America, give all of us one) and it makes sense.

I mean it's Scotland, they invented golf. The birds can go elsewhere.

Oh, so NOW you're okay with immigration. lain:

Culminating in...

Legal immigration yes, and so is Trump. He's brought at least 1,000 people here on H-2B visas that he sought on their behalf.

And how many birds were part of that plan? Specifically, how many Scottish birds fleeing recreational persecution?

I'll wait while we all consider the plain, hard truth.

While in the NFL thread...

Hope for a turnaround [in] Chicago as the Bears' Jay Cutler announces season ending surgery.

Cruc found another issue to take the wrong side of...

There are many activists who have taken to using the term who have nothing to do with Spencer, though they sympathize with the notion of white nationalism...

...If you sympathize with white nationalism you're sympathizing with racist nonsense.

...you all call everyone racists and bigots- or in your case right now, trying to threaten me with the labels thereof, you're just being a straight up moron.

Again, I'm not calling "everyone" any particular thing... I've said you've given cause to wonder with a number of comments...

[case in point:]

Trump was elected...BECAUSE EVERYBODY HAS LASHED AGAINST THE WHITE MAN. Let it sink in, and stop trying to dumb it down to 'racism'.

This woman, an anesthesiologist in Denver, wrote the following about the president's wife: “Monkey face and poor ebonic English!!! There! I feel better and am still not racist!!! Just calling it like it is!”

See, what you think about what you say doesn't necessarily define it.

Before driving home the point by labeling European culture...

They're all white culture

Now wrap this up with another more obviously racist foundation so I can see what fool has to say about Scottish seagulls today.

You all put it that way to continue trying to strip white men of their dignity and right to stand up for themselves.

That'll work.

It's done blew back in your faces

Oh come on. If you're going to troll you have to keep enough mystery in it. No need to wink, Jethro.

Then AB asked the burning question (as in "IEEEAAAAYYYA! My eyes!!")...

Could Hugh Hefner & Donald Trump Be Homosexual?

You mean...with each other? lain:

Tomorrow? Theft and taxes (and how one thing is not very much like the other), football, one sentence movie reviews and someone wins a door prize (hint: it isn't you). :think:

 

[Town Heretic]

The Wrap
on Friday


Answered one context on taxation with another...

Taking money from one person, with the threat of violence, and giving it to another is theft. Demanding money at the penalty of prison or worse, is extortion...

Theft is not paying taxes, taking the benefits derived while attempting to avoid payment for services rendered. Extortion and theft are the taking of that to which you have no legal or ethical claim. That's not the case here.

While in the speech thread I noted of a student complaining about a leftist professorial rant...

The professor sounds like a doofus who needs to separate her private political stake from classroom materials and presentations.

The student sounds like some of the people Trump supporters have been calling babies and whiners. You "feel" censored and bullied? Drop/add. You think it affected your grade? Due process and the Dean's office await. You don't like the education you're getting? Transfer and/or be more selective in the classes/professors you take.

He's a member of a Republican club on campus and her views/political position isn't common knowledge? I'm getting almost as tired of these staged public outrages as I am of the people who give them the excuse.

Tried my hand at a one sentence movie review...

Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them: a not that fantastic film is how I found it. lain:

Noted fools response to speculation regarding his optimistic foresight on the Trump potential...

...the laser like foresight of OMEGA is unassailable. I merely hope that by shotgunning out as many things as possible I might hit the side of the barn a little bit.

Whose barn? lain: That's the question. The rest is damages and payment.

Then Daniel was back on taxes with the tried if not quite true/parallel...

Well, what if I write down on a piece of paper that I can mow your lawn without your permission then just help myself to your money? I'll get some of my buddies to sign it.

The inherent false note in your attempt at parallel is the reduction of right to a two party disagreement and the arbitrary attachment of value and obligation by one compelling the other, unequally empowering within a context that never begins to rise to the actual premise and function of law.

How is that different from the Constitution?

Let's begin with the fundamental distinction founded in right and our equality relating. That fundamental equality is what protects us from arbitrary actions, like your hypothetical neighbor. You aren't empowered to do more or less than I am, and you are as equally obligated as I am. Taxes are neither arbitrary nor theft. They're the grease on the rails of a republic that provides necessary protections from inherent dangers that accompany any social order.

...Taxes are the obligation owed for benefits derived and access to full participation in a social compact you are at no point mandated to accept, unless you want those benefits. If you want them but you don't want to pay for them they you're more accurately approaching the ethical, working definition of thievery.

Discussed objections to Cabinet appointments by Trump...

So, if you want to reform a department, would you appoint a cheerleader for that department or a huge critic of that department?

I think you can make two mistakes: appoint someone wearing rose colored glasses or appoint someone who hates his job description. I'd go for appointing a problem solver, then identify what's wrong, to the extent something is, and address it.

And that's just one reason I'll never be president. lain:

And...

See, I don't get that.

You can't get someplace by running in the wrong direction. . . unless you run for a very, very long time.

None of these Cabinet picks need these jobs. Cabinet is a dead end road. I'd say it's a step down from Governor of Texas as far a real power wielded. He could turn down the job if he hated it.

I didn't say he hated the power. Putting a guy in charge of a thing he once vowed to end, when he finally remembered what it was he wasn't fond of, isn't exactly a way to reform anything, except our expectations.

Wrapping for the moment with...

You don't think a guy who wanted to end a department is going to reform it?

No, because instead of seeing the problem in the department he sees the department as the problem. How you can see the methodological weakness of the cheerleader and miss the other side of that coin baffles me...and I'm not easily baffled.

Cruc was back with his usual suspect declaratives...

Woman wanted quite frankly what they didn't idealize, build, or fight and die for...you go back and call patriarchy evil and 'equaity' as something heroic.

I'd call denying anyone their God given rights evil and equality before the law an objective good.

Answered a degree of cynicism with optimistic pragmatism...

...You have this world in which people are dishonest, corrupt, and inept, and therefore need to elect a portion of these corrupt, dishonest, inept people to run society. If people aren't fit to run their own lives, how can you select some of them to run the lives of everyone else?

Rather, most people, whatever their nature, understand self interest and that self interest is served by having rights which are served by protecting them, etc. Self interest can be a public angel, when it's wedded with the understanding that what is good for my neighbor is likewise good for me and what harms him without recourse threatens my happiness.

You needn't be a saint to propound or support a system that protects them.

Government has shown over, and over for milenia that it cannot be trusted.

I'm not confusing our government with every government. That's a muddled context. And ours has shown me that while it gets all sorts of things preposterously wrong, it does the best job I've seen along that historical line at protecting my rights and it's shown that over time it grows out of some bad habits. Like us, it's imperfect.

Meanwhile, AB's deft examination of another Cruc masterpiece...

Wow, what an idiot.

Led to...

that is an insult to idiots everywhere

True. I myself was rather insulted by it...

I just wish I knew what that meant. lain:

Speaking of which...

The Founding Fathers would think you all were as big a moron as I've ever stated you all to be- on a good day

I think Jefferson in particular would be stunned by that summary...or at least by the grammar.

Liberals called everyone against them the same, and labeled half the country as bigots, and then try to act like there's some conspiracy against them when they lose an election which their party had rigged from the get go.

...the use of conspiracy theory as a charge right before you join in a conspiracy theory on the election is a little funny.

Finished up with Cruc on women...

-You're trying to say that they were oppressed and couldn't do anything, and also that they did a lot and deserve it all.

Only if by "a lot" you were to mean what was there to be done and by "all" you mean what anyone should have before the law.

- women were given those rights out of men's compassion for them despite that they did not warrant them.

Not even close to accurate, which either you know or should (see: Suffrage Movement).

It's as simple as that, and what they got in return is a bunch of misery and malcontents who, a century later, are adversarial to men. And you defend that, why? Because you're a damn idiot, that's why, looking to use it to make yourself look holy.

I've never tried any such thing, though the reason you raise it is the same reason some raise intelligence in rebutting a claim that made no particular assertion related, you understand on some level that your position is worse than untrue and uncharitable and it surfaces in your attempt. It's your moral center that's crumbling, here on the point of women, there on the identity of the unborn, and in a pervasive inability to see beyond the thinner distinctions of race and encompass the broader, more meaningful and shared humanity.

Tomorrow? :think: How to bake a turkey and trim a ham. . . and a few bits on food too. lain:

 

[Town Heretic]

The Wrap
on Tuesday


Cruc had a few things to get off his shoulder...

Compared to revolutionary movements, women's rights was more of a pageant.

But really, why would anyone do that? Compare a movement born in violence to oppose and overthrow a government with a peaceful movement to attain simple human dignity and right?

It doesn't seem to bother you that so many women from the beginning to now have argued against feminism

Show me a poll where women today are arguing against equality under the law.

Why don't you try looking up all the women against feminism.

...A woman can be opposed to a perception of modern feminism without agreeing with misogynists who would be happy to remove her voting rights, property rights, and ability to compete in the workforce.

To defend feminism is insanity it's a complete mockery to men's dignity.

Only the weakest, most fearful sort of man would find protecting the dignity of women an offense against his own.

You simply presume too much from statistics is all.]Statistics don't take into account anything other than numbers

lain:

Talked politics with pj...

With 306 Electoral votes it is obvious that Donald J. Trump has a mandate.

With Putin?

Donald seriously trounced Hitlery forget about the tainted popular vote.

And concentrate on the unpopular vote?

When jeffb said...

i'll pay for your ticket to Cananda since the "deplorables" run this country now.

Are you trying to make America grate again? lain: And how isn't aCW all over the man date business?

And the EC with rm...

And you cannot prove if every vote was legally cast so, the notion that the popular vote is even a valid number is in question.

Rather, anyone disputing the validity of the votes has the burden of proof and the assumption is that absent that the numbers are exactly what they purport to be...an additional irony over the dispute by the winning side is that those same numbers generated the EC victory, divided along state lines. So if the process is inherently suspect the outcome is equally suspect no matter who wins.

the senate & house both maintained full majorities that translates into a republican mandate
to change the direction of the country

Only a Republican could translate losing the popular vote handily, and losing seats in the House and Senate into a mandate to change directions. :chuckle:

...period.

More like an ellipsis.

Rebutted the playwright (bonus pts available)...

Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.

Rather, those who can teach those who will. Pshaw. oly:

There was a goofy bit of conversation about race and its practical impact...by way of example:

Did I say all black people can not swim?

No, you said:

There is data out there suggesting black men cannot swim. This justifies my reluctance to hire them as lifeguard.

And I noted that the words you chose invite misunderstanding. Prior to that I wondered why you'd presume anything instead of simply screening applicants.

There's nothing to suggest black men can't swim, empirically, whether or not, for one reason or another, they largely don't choose it as recreation. Blacks also don't tend to play hockey, but it doesn't follow that they can't play hockey, only that they mostly don't.

No. So quit accusing me of it.

lain: Nothing in that post accused you of anything.

No "real impediment". That's like saying being short is no real impediment to playing basketball.

And it isn't. Now if you want to be a professional center, you need height. But short isn't really a parallel to black, unless you can show a physical disadvantage you aren't offering.

And so my question.

Later CS, who wonders aloud why some think he might have a problem with race said...

Traditional Americans will eventually die off due to lack of jobs and low birth rates.

Traditional Americans? lain: I think the Native Americans are doing fine these days.

PJ had a thought on polling...

Polls. LOL !!! With the margin of error factored in, polls are useless.

50% of pollsters disagree with your conclusion (with a plus/minus of 50). lain:

Summed my objection to anecdotes as argument...

I don't share your evaluation of anecdotes .

It's not mine, though I made it, any more than any true thing belongs to the person who knows it. Science should have taught you that. You don't flip a coin once and say, "Well, a coin flipped will always come up heads." You don't observe the only Native American family you know and from that determine the conduct and character of every Native American. And you don't or shouldn't conflate your personal educational experience with the true sum of every, absent some objective metric that can establish it regardless of the desire of anyone.

They are meaningful to me

And that's fine.

I know that where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

Smoke isn't subjective.

There is usually some truth to the anecdote and even at times it's a representative of reality.

And the way we know when that is? Exactly, by a larger, objective methodology that confirms whatever part of the anecdote may be true. The anecdote itself cannot accomplish it.

After noting that taxation can't be reasonably called theft...

And chattel slavery was legal and abortion is legal. Doesn't make it right.

The law is not a particular moral instrument, though it tends to serve a moral end. The law is a balancing of right and necessity.

I understand that you won't debate the morality of taxation, and that is fine.

I think at that point it becomes so pointlessly subjective that it's a bit like arguing which ice cream is better.

On this I hope we can agree in that Jesus, Peter, Paul all said to pay your taxes, no matter how burdensome they can get so we should pay as to not offend them.

Caesar's is Caesar's, so long as Caesar doesn't demand we give him that which is God's. How's that?

Which led to...

To late you already did that!

If you're speaking to me you need a new hat.

Tomorrow? :think: A bright smile for some/a bright fire for others. Here's hoping you get presents.

 

[Town Heretic]

Merry Christmas, TOL! :cheers:

View attachment 25083

Here's wishing you all:

Peace
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Joy
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And unexpected happiness
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Or at least some sort of rope pulling, cat clawing pantomime...something.
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[theophilus]

Merry Christmas, TOL! :cheers:

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And the same to you!

 

[theophilus]

Merry Christmas, TOL! :cheers:

View attachment 25083

Here's wishing you all:

Peace
View attachment 25084

Joy
View attachment 25085

And unexpected happiness
View attachment 25086

Or at least some sort of rope pulling, cat clawing pantomime...something.
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There really is no such thing as "too much fun" is there?



Merry Christmas [MENTION=7640]Town Heretic[/MENTION]!

May you and yours have an AMAZING 2017!

 

[theophilus]

Merry Christmas, TOL! :cheers:

View attachment 25083

Here's wishing you all:

Peace
View attachment 25084

Joy
View attachment 25085

And unexpected happiness
View attachment 25086

Or at least some sort of rope pulling, cat clawing pantomime...something.
View attachment 25087

Everything USED to be better with Coke.

Looks like your "better with everything" is Jack.



Happy New Year!

 

[Town Heretic]

The Wrap
on Tuesday


john was being john in the NFL thread, where after I called a contest a dead heat...

Where would we be, TH, without such insight

Best guess? Inside your head.

What thread is this again?

:think: "Ol john w's backyard"?

Which led to...

All right, that's it.....You have now moved down to my "17th favorite Town Heretic,"

Though in fairness the other 16 are sock puppets.

and you are blowing it!

Curiously enough, that was the general critical reception to my all brass, jazz-funk album entitled, "Horny For You". lain:

I was never clear on what they meant by it either.

Noted that the right wing of the Republican party has found an ally in the EC and will be loath to alter it...

That said, the electoral college should be done away with in future elections.

The right can't allow it. The thing that popular vote told you was that even as unpopular within her party as Hillary was, she could beat the Republican nominee among the people. The EC is the only way for them to hold onto power while they try to build a connection to the young and minorities, assuming they try. If not, you'll just have to wait a while and they'll sort themselves out...of power. Personally, I hope they find that connection, because it will mean a return of the reasoned, moderate Republican and the death of this strangle hold the hard right has on the party.

Q said...

Someone could make you out to look like an idiot with a simple edit.

With some it's easier to just repost everything they wrote. lain:

As if to illustrate, Cruc stopped by one of anna's threads...

This thread is a troll.

By way of...

You're a bunch of tools, and she's an expert in her Eveism :chuckle:

Zeke...well....

Is that soup all CAPS their ABA?

So you just don't walk the crazy walk.

Cruc's attempt to defend the EC seemed another ironic stroke of the gong...

The EC has it's purpose, and can potentially save any part of the political spectrum from being sacked by small majorities.

That's an inventive way of noting that it can be used by a sufficiently large minority to rule the majority. It's also no particular virtue and in conflict with a government whose genesis was a struggle against authority without representation and a celebration of the individual.

I fail to see the Left's vote as anything else then rapid bias fueled from fanatical ideology,

We all have our limitations. The trick is to recognize what they are.

There has never been a conspiracy or overturning of true interests of Americans by the EC

I never said it was a conspiracy. It was, however, as an operation of mechanics, a process that did exactly that for most voting Americans.

And...

Conformity is not a friendly word in America

In America we mass produce t-shirts with UBU on them. lain:

, people are often spastic and arbitrary, and so they made a system that was both democratic and still resisted tyranny of majority.

There's nothing about the president being elected by a popular vote that would support a tyranny. How can I know this? Easy, in almost every case the EC has rubber stamped the popular candidate.

The EC is part of that system- what you are stating is really just a cop out.

Slavery was a part of our economic system once too. There's nothing about my inquiry and contemplation that could be called a cop out, just as there's little about your position that could be called an argument.

Then he trotted out another observation in need of...

Everything is racist, sexist, bigoted, anon anon- name one single liberal complaint that hasn't included those words.

I could list out any number, from the cost of college to infrastructure, but you wouldn't care.

So...

The issue with college costs are the student's fault as far as I'm concerned.

I don't care. You said give you an issue without one of your hot buttons. It's one of many that undoes your attempt at tying everything the left is concerned about into a few emotionally driven particular bits of outrage.

And back on the EC:

That's five times America resisted becoming Europe

That's another dodge of the point. Five of fifty-seven? That's not resistance, it's aberration.

Appeal to tradition is not a logical fallacy on this subject

It's actually a logical fallacy whenever its used.

Then Dave decided to defend the idea that the world is flat...

I spent many months now watching every conspiracy theory on you tube I could find.

You know, I had a feeling you might have.

Having lived through the 50's to today I have no good reason to believe our government, the CIA, NASA, or modern science about anything.

You actually do have reason to accept the volume of film and credible claims by eye witnesses, some of whom you've been given and one or two noted, without actually commenting on what that should tell you. Anyway, the simplest reason is that were those agencies and individuals not telling you the honest truth it would represent the most massive and impressive actual conspiracy in the history of man.

No one is that good at keeping a secret and no governmental agency has ever been that good at its job.

I think that the you tube conspiracy folk should be heard and have a right to freely publish on the internet.

Me too. Especially on a slow weekend when it rains. :rain:

But after posting links to authority and notes on science only to be met by cherry picking and mobile goal posts...

Things I have learned about the Flat Earth model.

Are you technically allowed to use "learned" and "Flat Earth" in the same sentence? :think:

1. The UN logo is pretty much what it looks like.

I'll go one better and say the logo is exactly what it looks like. lain: What?

The North Pole is at the center and Antarctica surrounds everything in a circle of ice.

Where does the Great Turtle come into this? (Ha! Trick question, as we come into the Great Turtle! :reals

2. The sun and moon are much closer than in the globe model. They circle the earth mainly at the equator.

Whereas this theory circles the drain from a much nearer distance.

3. The sun and moon are about the same size and the moon gives off it's own light.

How would it manage to do that?

3. The stars are not planets and are not millions of miles away.

No one believes that stars are planets and the distances vary, but we can calculate that the nearest neighboring star is 93 million miles...that's the sun, by the way. The next nearest star system is around 4.37 light years from the sun.

How do we know how far away things are from us in the cosmos? Well Hipparchus did it with the parallax. Objects observed from different angles shift in line of sight by degree, with the nearer causing the greater shift. Want to demonstrate the effect yourself? Hold out your arm and give it the old hitchhiker's thumb. Close one eye, then open it and close the other. You'll see the shift is dramatic with the thumb and not so much with the objects farther away and behind it. So he applied a little geometry in observing the moon from two cities at a fixed distance and came within less than a 10% variance from our modern and more accurate assessments.

4. There is a canopy or dome that contains the atmosphere. We cannot go beyond it.

What's it made of? lain:

5. There is more land or continents beyond the wall ice south in all directions.

Is it infinite?

6. Finally, Scully, we may not be alone, not from outer space but from beyond the ice wall.

I've always said that most of the real problems of the world could be traced to ice walls.

Tomorrow? More fun with phonics. lain:

 

[Town Heretic]

The Wrap
on Sunday


Cruc had an astounding insight into liberals...

you are a percentage of society,

Before asking...

...When are people going to fully recognize the fact that the liberals run most of the media

Probably when the number one venue for news stops being the waterboy for the Republican party.

And, on the impact of land on the election...

...You can blame the EC

Or just recognize that twice now in a relatively short period of time it has given the public a president elected by the minority and wonder why that's a good idea.

this country wasn't about to let you all continue to keep it down the path it was going.

Except that's what it did...unless you believe the land itself was speaking, in which case you probably shouldn't be voting. . . or driving.

I suppose it's because liberals keep wanting to see the Presidency as a monarch

That's because your thinking tends to be driven by non sequiturs. A monarch is typically put in place by a small, powerful group. A minority, if you will, with enough of that power. Sound familiar?

Continued to differ with GJ over the vestment of humanity and abortion...

I put stock into what experts say.

An appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. And where that opinion is demonstrably subjective, an arbitrary valuation, it has no more weight than what your local butcher believes, or the guy who changes your tires.

You're right, there is not a definite, consensus opinion to draw from. There is data suggesting that around 22 weeks is when "humanity" begins and that's based on science, which I wouldn't consider particularly arbitrary.

I take exception to that idea. Humanity isn't a stage in development on any biological/medical chart. It does not describe process or reflect a demonstrable thing, which is the province of scientific fact. Instead, humanity exists as a reflection of our response to biology, as a point where we value that collection of cells and recognize the vesting of right. Now you can believe that point should be at conception, or where those collected cells experience pain, or where they can exist independently of the host (the Roe standard), or with the first breath, but wherever you place value, you aren't doing it by logical necessity.

That's the problem of any assignment and the danger in failing to protect the unborn at every point along our line of chronological being, given that all of us recognize that point exists.

And I don't think that a pregnant woman should have to care for a child that she neither wants nor has the means to care for if the science backs her up, and the only opposition is "what if"

Except that you do believe it once the demonstrable "what if" becomes a certainty to you. At that point you're as militant as any.

Wondered after JF's connection of certain dots...

Dave has made it quite clear that just like with his creationist beliefs, his flat-earth beliefs stem from Christianity.

And Charles Manson's direction to murders were founded in his understanding of a Beetle's album.

Should we have charged John, George, Ringo and Paul? Or ridiculed their record? lain:

On liberals and Trump...

... Hitler is the liberal's go-to argument

Hitler isn't used as an argument so much as an illustration in parallel. And that use isn't a liberal singularity. Google Hitler/Obama. I did and got Twenty million, four hundred thousand results.

Edit: I Googled Hitler and Trump and it came in at around 25 million. So, finally, Trump is ahead by a few million on something directly related to the actions of people.

An ongoing attempt by many to move Dave off the ol flat earth business reduced to a single, cogent inquiry vital to the foundation of that business and unaddressed, despite repeated postings, by Dave...

Who's behind this conspiracy and why?

We're running into our own wall here, the age old problem of trying to move people from a point by reason who arrived at their position via another route. Or, as they say in Mississippi, "That boy's four cents off a nickle." lain:

Cruc summed his feeling on difference over gender with...

It was for the same reason as women not being able to vote or own property- white men didn't want to share what others didn't put in on.

A neat trick. Make laws that don't allow full participation then claim the people denied it don't deserve it because they don't fully participate. lain:

Reasons you believe women should have had those rights:

Equality before the law is the right of every member of the compact living within it.

So...

...Saying you are a cuckolded wimp with Stockholm syndrome is the most piercingly accurate label that could be placed on you all...

I'd attempt to place the most accurate label possible on you, but I am untrained in the mental health sciences.

Noted a peculiar complaint from GM, given...you'll see...

Don't be fooled by the Islamic Agenda. They seek to kill and destroy.

No. Were that true, given the billion and a half adherents, the world would be on fire. Rather, there is an element within Islam that, empowered, seeks to eradicate not only those who diametrically oppose their faith, but those within their faith who fail to agree with their principles. That's why most of the people dying at the hands of radicalized Islam and most of the people actually risking their necks fighting it are Muslims.

Those who are not followers of Islam are called "Infidels." Christians, Jews, and the U.S. as a whole are considered such.

What do you call Muslims, brothers?

The Muslim name for God is Allah and Allah, according to the Quran has no Son. Muslims deny the Trinity and worship "Another god" other than the God of the Bible.

Or, to put it another way, they aren't Christians and so don't follow Christian dogma. True of every religion and adherent who isn't a member of the Body.

God forbid that Christians accept Islamics as brothers.

See what I mean? Supra.

Their "Religion" is another satanic counterfeit.

And you found "infidels" alarming? lain:

Differed a bit on taste, with glass...

That would imply that taste can be better or worse, which I don't think it can.

I think it absolutely can. There's personal taste, the subjective response to stimuli of one form or another and there's a larger appreciation that can be superior in relation to form, whatever our response to it on a personal level. So you can appreciate that Shakespeare is arguably the greatest writer of any generation though you may prefer to read romance novels.

Then...

...A mother may consider her child's painting hanging on her refrigerator to be of an infinitely greater value than anything hanging in the Louvre.

She will treasure the fact that the work on her refrigerator springs from the hand of her beloved, but no mother who is rational will compare her child's playing of Twinkle, Twinkle with Andsnes playing a Beethoven concerto. And even that mother would recognize the growth of her young prodigy over time and understand the superiority produced by the growth of his or her skills, valuing it beyond the sentimental association. And she will understand that likened and superior (in construction) works are appearing on refrigerators across the world, while Monets are not.

And...

...There's really no such thing as an objectively "great" work of art. It's only great if people say it's great.

We don't practice a thing because we believe we won't get better at it. Better implies an inherent scale relative to skill and the same is true for art, by and large, though choosing between great artists and works tends to be a more subjective reflection on how they speak to us.

Try singing [a Beyonce tune] around a campfire (if you like campfires) with others who enjoy it - preferably people you really care about.

If I really cared about them I'd do better by them (shudders).

Then fool said...

I think Trump resonated because he's real. A working class man.

That's why I told my father to be sure to leave me a million or two, so I can be a real working class man. lain:

He has 23,000 employees.

Like most working class, salt of the earth, bring your lunch pail men do.

Trump is a small businessman

Like suggesting a guy who has his millions scattered across enough companies is actually a small investor.

Tomorrow, matzoh balls, pitchforks and a good length of trope...lain:

 

[Town Heretic]

The Wrap
on Friday


First there was Cruc, transforming a post into his own worst enema...

[Trump] dealt with frustrated white people, who could put more into the economy than your average college student...Is it just me, or did this country do better when there weren't so many uselessly smart people walking around

It's you...

Because most college students I've met couldn't change a flat on their car.

That tells me you either haven't met many or you live near a really, really bad commuter college.

Then fool rushed in with his take on Trump as the working man...

[Trump] eats taco bowls form the grill downstairs, just like anyone else that walks in and orders one.

I'd bet JFK once ate a matzoh ball or two. Didn't make him a Jew.

Trump won and now he is the wheelhouse.

No, he's the power. It doesn't mean he actually knows more about everything, even if he seems to think that he does. Not that he isn't a smart guy. He is. He's a Wharton man, like my brother. That's an Ivy League education in play.

Hotels and casinos are pretty easy to relate to.

Daddies handing you millions to make more with is less so.

On approach:

Why didn't anyone else think of that?

A lot of people did. He just out sold them. That's his gift.

Didn't Hillary have people in charge of thinking of things?

Hillary had the numbers, but not the distribution. Distribution, as any Wharton man will tell you, is important.

Which didn't lead to my more general observation about life on the boards...

Give some people enough trope and they'll hang themselves with it. lain:

Before...

...People voted for Hillary out of a sense of duty and after she shafted Sanders alot just didn't show up for her.

I completely agree. And even so she out performed him at the ballot box.

Trumps people would have waded thru the mud to vote for him.

Why not, they waded through worse to endorse him.

Closing on an optimistic note...okay, not really, but you can imagine it might have...unless you voted...

...]And oh yeah she lost land that had been blue for six elections, alot of it.

It's still land.

Not in the right places though.

Depends on whether or not you think one guy's vote having more power than the other guy's is a good idea.

It was a huge risk to send him, but it paid off.

Remains to be seen. You don't crown a national champion before the game.

Sometimes opportunity is wearing overalls when it knocks.

And sometimes the farmer's daughter gets knocked up and the salesman is half way to Duluth.

Then Cruc revived the MOTD thread with this ditty...

Nobody has ever met a Muslim who compassionate of gays nobody has ever worked with a Mexican who cares one bit about white people and nobody has ever seen a Jew even pretend that they have any interest in American prominence. Mexicans hustle white people- this is what liberals don't really get...The Jews have all their money banked in on either Zion interests, or globalization..the Goldsteins down the road harbor more wealth than the Smiths a block over...

It's not rocket science

Lucky break for you.

How are you not all over the flat earth thread. lain: Dave could use your help.

Talked EC with rm...

The "principle of equality before the law"...does not exist in a "majority rules" pure democracy form which you desire.

Rather, I advocate the end of the EC and the popular election of the president, who should reflect that "We the people". Beyond that, there's something funny about seeing the right argue for a position that allows the minority to control the majority.

Why you feel it is reasonable that one or two major metropolis' should dictate who should set policy for every city & state because the mob has ruled is contrary to the foundational principle.

This mob rule business is simply a mirage distinction. You're no different on the point, only you want the smaller mob to have a shot at overturning the majority, something you'd vehemently resist when it gores your traditional ox.

And...

...Calling it mob rule, majority rule, pure democracy, etc is a distinction of a paradigm which this nation rejected at it's founding.

Except that it didn't. Majority rule exists in any election process, but in the case of the presidency we interject another level of interference that, from time to rare time, causes an outcome that has nothing to do with any expression of principle or meaning and the minority takes by that operation what it could not take at the ballot box

GM gave me an insight into a point of curiosity...

I hope that time accelerates so Obama doesn't have enough time to create more damage. He's brought about enough destruction in the last eight years... it appears he's remaining in Washington in order to set up some form of makeshift "Shadow Government" type of influence.

lain: Now I know why you thought I was naive. You're paranoid...I wonder how much power you guys need to have before you stop thinking like victims and what you're going to do when there's literally no one in the power structure that fits this easy villains role you've invested so much time creating. I suspect you'll turn on your own again, go RINO hunting and ascribe the failures of leadership to that same shadow.

Cruc did a laundry list of demonizing leftists, before this particular gem...

They want to end you, as amply demonstrated in the list above.

Oh, please. Most of them don't even believe anyone should own a gun. lain:

While back in the flat earth thread a rare mayo y mayo was in the making...:think: I might need to brush up on my Espania...

I agree. That is why there is no truth to the conspiracy theory that Uncle Arthur, on "Bewitched," for obvious reasons, wacked Darren #1, to install Darren #2

There was no Darren #2. That was just an enormous conspiracy cooked up by the networks to...to...to...

Sure....And Uncle Arthur really was not on "The Hollywood Squares."

Okay, that one happened....hilariously. I think it might have been below the horizon though, so it doesn't count.

Very funny.....No soup for you. Next!

And then they came for my spoon...lain:

Tomorrow? Course corrections, political bingo, and a conversation about beholders ends beautifully...

 

[Town Heretic]

The Wrap
on Friday



Cruc was up and at it...

It's madness that if a woman wants her husband out of the house, the police will try to make up something that will suffice for him being thrown out of his own home.

I'd agree that your believing that's the rule is madness.

It's madness that you are concerned with women being payed less for the same work (a lie)

Again, I don't believe we've ever had that discussion. I invited you to quote/nudge me if I'm mistaken on the point. What I've read on the point sustains the idea. By way of example, this recent article in Forbes from March of 2016: Women Are Still Paid Less Than Men - Even In The Same Job.

and don't care about the fact that women do less time for the same crime (a fact).

Are you suggesting that men serve too long or women too little? In any event, as with sentencing relative to race, it's a point in need of address. It's also not an either/or. That is, you don't reasonably have to say, "I'd like to see equity in pay, but not so long as men are incarcerated longer for the same crime."

It would be a peculiar segue, to say the least.

I can go on and on

Oh, don't sell yourself short, you will. Just not in this particular post.

Took a moment for an NFL note...

The Saints have apparently cut most of their defensive and special team coaches.

This came as a real shock to die-hard Saints' fans who had no idea those positions existed. lain:

And then...

Speaking of the 1970 draft.....

And why wouldn't anyone? lain:

there were only two Hall of Famers selected in that draft:

Terry Bradshaw

Terrific gal.

Mel Blount

His Elmer Fudd is a classic.

While in Dave's flat world thread...

In order to believe in a spinning ball flying through space we have to set aside our senses, close our eyes and use our imagination.

--Dave

Like Helen Keller with rainbows?

That was Dave, if you missed it.


Then in an apparently closed thread...

Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe
President-elect Trump is asking taxpayers to pay for "The Wall."

Bought it when it first came out. Some good stuff, but if I hear "We don't need no education!" ...wait, that's the new DeVos motto...and I've spoiled it.

And...

Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe
:chuckle: I just couldn't get through all of your "Gobbledygook."

Well, that's a shame. I made this batch with extra chocolate chips...at least I think they were chocolate chips. We have had a bit of a mouse problem lately...let's go with chips anyway, just chew your way through with optimism. Make America bake again!

And...

Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe
You're a "Brit" therefore, mind your own business.

They can't. But they've been scaling back for generations. Right now it's us and some island off the Argentine coast.

Do we GRIPE about your Queen?

I do. All the time. When it rains I raise a closed fist to the sky and yell, "Dad-blasted, Elizabeth, cut that out!" When the crops fail or job growth slows to a trickle I send another nasty letter to Buckingham Palace. I sometimes show up outside to ask for her birth certificate or call out loudly that I'm almost certain she's a German. That sort of thing. lain: So it's my fault that AB is up in arms and on the prowl. Or, to put it in a way that will make much more sense to you, Obama.

While over in this year's bah-humbug thread...

I agree that Christmas is not biblical , explain to me how I can celebrate my faith using an unbiblical holiday?

To say a thing is not prescribed is not to say the observation is proscribed. This sort of hyperliteralism is needless and itself unprescribed. Where does the Bible condone pews and hymnals? And so on.

Also explain to me just how the" Cross" is the true meaning of Christmas?

"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord." To what end was that birth? And there's your answer.

Then, after launching an attack on judgmental Christians, in advancing his argument against Christmas...

The devil knows that a sincere study of paganism and history

You know, that sounds an awful lot like some of the Christians you were criticizing earlier. So my options are to agree with you or I cannot be either sincere or studious...hard to distinguish that from any zealot a moment before the condemnation to hell begins. You might want to reconsider the methodology, or your earlier critique. One of them has to go.

Meanwhile, GM was giving me the business...

Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe
I've stopped taking you seriously.

Well, taking yourself as seriously as you do there likely wasn't enough left to go around.

And...

Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe
I'm afraid due to political differences, Town Heretic and I will no longer be cordial to one another. He's a Lib and I'm a Conservative. Never the twain shall meet.

...you got it half right and that's progress.

Closing for the time being with clefty being clefty about...

Of course your fearless...too sophisticated...all that is beneath you

When you tag people you don't know with feeling superior do you think that's more funny than hypocritical, or more hypocritical than funny?

Why you bringing it in and decorating it? Peer pressure?

A Christmas tee? Because it's more pleasant to look at that way.

Why only for Christmas?

Because it's a Christmas tree. lain:

Tomorrow? :think: We discover there is always an I in memes.

 

[Town Heretic]

The Wrap
on Monday


A peculiar moment in the NFL thread...

Jeopardy....And the answer is.....6. Remember to phrase your response in the form of a question.

What was your age the first time you realized that chics dig you? lain:

Then Clete decided to rerun a bit of propaganda around more than a decade...

Regardless of what welfare is intended for, the consequences are exactly as insinuated in OP.

They really aren't, but how you get to those consequences was important enough for the author to spend a lot of time on, and it's flawed. Worse, the flaw is intentional and sets a dishonest table as I noted in my response to it.

OP is an allegory; inserting intent to regard people on welfare as "lesser beings" is completely unjustified.

It's completely justified. The writer makes the "altruist" human and the problem one of misbehaving animals. If you don't see it you're trying not to and there's nothing for it...

The "person" who put out the birdfeeder and owns the porch is utterly distinct from the birds, just as government regulations are not people.

Regulations don't feed anyone. People do. The person in this story is meant to represent those who provide for those who don't. The provider is put in a superior position to the "animals" reliant on his care, who then abuse the gift of his generosity. I say generosity because at the end he feels no particular obligation to them, cuts off the food supply and sees things go back to what's important to him, his enjoyment of the fruits of his labor.

And the best proof of that is found in the authors stated aim, set out at the end in the form of a question. [A fake question asking if its time to take down the bird feeder].

Talked turkey and fools curious defense of the EC by way of imagining with Tam...

Originally Posted by Tambora It is my understanding of Fool's commentary on the popular vote is that the fact we don't have that. But if we did, then the public would see voting differently than they do now (for the most part).

That was my understanding of him too. It's a speculation that requires a shift we have no real reason to believe would be the case, no hard data to confirm any of it. What we do know is that around three million more people, voters, cast theirs for the losing weasel.

As Fool explained; a lot of voters in a predominately Republican state would not deem their vote as worth much because they pretty much know the EC is going Republican. IF we had a popular vote, that type of thinking would change. The whole strategy changes.

Maybe it does/maybe it doesn't. When I've voted for a Democrat I did so knowing it would only reflect in the popular tally. When I've voted Republican I did so fully understanding that if I sat on my hands the Republican would still win the nomination. I suspect that's true for most, that we vote for our own reasons and sense of connection or obligation as citizens, but what I know is how people actually voted.

While back in GM's locked and unloaded "Something New" thread (and really, threads have been locked here for a long time) I wrote...

Hey, if you really want to try something new try talking up your side instead of spending most of it talking about the guys you beat. lain:

Otherwise it's a bit like interviewing someone who won the Oscar and all they want to talk about is why the other performances weren't as good. What you're doing with this thread is, as they say in Mississippi, older than soap.

Of course, in Mississippi that just means it's been around for ten to fifteen years, but you get the point.

Then, Clete underlined my point about his tendency to meet sustained objection with temper, posting...

I have lots and lots of people on ignore, they're merely the latest additions to the club of mindless idiots who aren't worth my time...Good riddance...What passes for a "liberal" today would have been considered an enemy of the state when I was growing up....I'm done with them. I am not interested in discussing anything with them. Their minds do not work...I wouldn't trust their conversion...I simply refuse to debate any of them about anything...I'll post the truth and they can be convinced or not, I genuinely do not care...

In fact, I think I'd actually prefer they not be convinced. I want to laugh at them on judgment day.

That's...tragic. Unless you outgrow it, putting me on ignore is the least of my worries.

And...somewhere...

How many men before Neil Armstrong tried to go to the moon?

:think: My great uncle, Dave, tried it. . . but he was half crazy on shine and made the effort in a goat cart with a ramp.

Over in the Christmas thread...

Amen, no scripture speaks of celebrating his birthday.

You mean other than the shepherds called from their fields by an angelic host, wise men from the east bringing gifts and a star hanging over the town.

That sounds like Christmas to me.

Then, for no apparent reason...

So you reckon the marriage has already taken place?

Are you sure you're having this conversation with me? Because on my end it's reading like a series of segues. :think:

And not the fun, capitalized kind that take you somewhere.

While in the mandate thread...

In 6 days Trump will begin carrying out his mandate !!!

Where are he and Putin going, the movies? Also, you need to put a space between man and date or it's going to confuse people. lain:

And I'll wrap the day with a true story:

So a water pipe burst along the acreage this morning, leading to a few hours of locating, digging, cutting and patching. After I turned the water back on I went to the end of the lane and was down low on all fours peering into the recess where our meter lies, waiting for the triangle to slow and stop, when a neighbor stops along the roadside. I hear the car window open. Then...

Neighbor: "[My name], what in the world are you doing?"

Me: Looking up. "I've converted to Islam. I'm praying."

Neighbor: (a beat) "Really. (another beat) You know you're facing the wrong way."

Me: "Well, I'm not very good at it yet."

I live in a funny town.

Tomorrow? :think: Another millionaire speaks up for the little guy, wrapping up a thread for the birds, and the worst t-shirt ever. lain:

 

[Town Heretic]

The Wrap
on Wednesday


Playoff fever had Tet stumbling about in the NFL thread...

The Steelers are just the 6th team to win a post-season game without scoring a TD.

That's going to look great on a t-shirt. lain:

And...

Let's use the same years, and compare the Steelers/Patriots with the Cowboys/49'ers:

Spoiler

1994 - Cowboys & 49'ers
1995 - Cowboys
1996
1997 - 49'ers
1998
1999
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011 - 49'ers
2012 - 49'ers
2013 - 49'ers
2014
2015
2016

You should put that on the back of the shirt.

While in the Christmas thread, Easter was already on the horizon...

nothing wrong with celebrating His resurrection either I guess

Nothing at all.

how is it we are tempted?

How is it that we are hungry, angry, proud?

by fleeing sin or rationalizing it with pretty and clever arguments?

Any number of ways, I'd imagine. As many ways as there are men and notions. [including] a whisper that says to suspect the gift God gave us to process our understanding.

Still don't find Christmas in there either...His birth celebrated sure

You just found it.

So guess who the cat dragged in...

Clefty, I must admit you are tenacious. TH can go on and on for eternity.

You know what distinguishes tenacity from "going on for eternity"? Your bias...now see there, that was succinct.

To sum my attitude on what followed...

Nope, I was exposing your pretentiousness.

You just don't know what Jesus teaches like many Trinitarians.

lain:

Took a few at bats with some stereotypes with Jeff's "Liberals Think" bit...

“The Constitution” – An outdated, irrelevant document that should be ignored unless you are claiming that some liberal agenda item is guaranteed by it despite the fact that no one noticed it for 200 years.

The only time the hard right likes the Constitution is when they consider it without most of its amendments.

“We want the government out of our bedrooms” – We want the government out of our bedrooms…right after they force the Pope to buy us birth control and promise to support our children if we decide not to use the IUD suggested by the Pope because, “Who does that guy think he is, right?”

The only time you'll ever hear the hard right talking about the Pope without insulting him. So that's funny right there.

“Angry, white male” – A white guy who votes Republican.

No, a white guy who votes Republican because he's white.

“Anti-intellectual” – Those who refuse to acknowledge that liberal college professors who couldn’t cut it outside of a university or MSNBC are right about everything.

No, anti-intellectual is best witnessed in goofy attempts to devalue education or demean by declaration what can't be established objectively. It's the parlance of proud, stupid people. It's being used by the author of this bit, who likely is a college graduate and knows better.

12) “Climate change denier” - Someone who actually judges global warming based on the available scientific evidence instead of coming up with a socialistic agenda first and then passing out grant money to any scientists who are willing to attempt to justify it.

See: #10

13) “Bipartisanship” – When Republicans cooperate with Democrats to push the liberal agenda. Not to be confused with “selling out” which happens when liberals cooperate with Republicans to push their agenda.

Well, at least the author combined Republican and cooperate. You're just not going to see that anywhere else.

“The American Flag” - A symbol of oppression waved by ignorant, bucktoothed hillbillies dumb enough to think that this is a great place to live.

The hard right salutes the flag, but in their hearts there are a lot fewer stars on it.

Thanks. That was fun.

While in the sayings and catch phrases thread, I offered...

"That boy's a pump without a handle." Grandfather

So clefty decided that anything not commanded and done as a good should be prohibited...I mentioned Jesus not having a word to say about penicillin and...

...What is penicillin known for? A cure for STDS...hmmmm imagine living lives not needing that...wounds? Again why all the warfare?

...Penicillin fights infections. Ear infections in children, strep throat, sinus infections...a host of things really.

Living as He did would certainly not increase the need of it...STDs war penicillin

You just find the sin in a spoon, don't you. "Spoon??? What's that for, SHOOTING HEROIN?????" And so on. lain:

"If you love me keep My commandments" does not include celebrating a command to keep His birthday

He didn't command Mary to wash his feet with her hair or pour nard on him either. But he didn't seem to be offended by it or mistake it for something other than an act of love...but then, he didn't have you among the twelve to remind him.

On Trump's speech...

I didn't watch it. I'm sure the GOP establishment all looked like the cats who swallowed the canary....

I think they're nervous on a number of levels. I think everyone should be. This guy is a bit like Mystery Date. Well, the door is opening...

They know Trump is a fraud, but they don't care, they know he's just a puppet.

I think he's himself, that on some abiding level he means to be a bit like Teddy Roosevelt or old Rockefeller to a lesser extent. A loose, ego driven cannon. I'm not suggesting he's Teddy Roosevelt in any particular sense, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't think of himself in that way or desire to be something akin to that. . . And if that's true, we could be in for an interesting ride.

Had a take on fool's take about voter motivation...

I voted for Trump, just to see what happens.
Have you ever done something, just to see what it feels like?

Sure. I've tried a sauna, squid, bungee jumping. Things that might end in infection, spitting, serious bodily harm or death. Never considered spinning that wheel on a national level. lain:

But then, I heard Folsom Prison Blues early on. :guitar:

Tomorrow? :think: Spinning class, fun with definitions, and the origins of the specious. oly: Stay tuned...

 

[Town Heretic]

The Inaugural Wrap


Began another interesting conversation with gj...

I proposed this idea as a solution to poverty. Just allow impoverished people to steal money from unimpoverished people. Why would that be unjust?

It would be illegal, which by definition makes it unjust. What's not unjust is the Amish having to pay taxes that go to the military they don't believe in, because we don't get to decide what our tax money goes to individually.

Alright. Why not allow impoverished citizens to take money from wealthier citizens?

How?

Will my answer affect yours?

Dramatically. But we have to move beyond a peculiarly needless and inferentially insulting choice of verbs.

How should the poor who are incapable of providing for themselves, in the moment or habitually, find relief? Begging on street corners? Random acts of kindness? And are we conflating that objectionable verb with a portion of taxation, much of which goes to all sorts of things that benefit the society in general and various people in particular, none of it with our particular say? Because if so it baffles and saddens me. Are there really so many people, so absent the sensibility of Christ in this nation that they claim to not begrudge the giving, but insist it be proceeded with a "Please?" That their delicacy on the point is of more pressing importance than people without the means to feed themselves or stand against the cold or sickness? And why should I credit that small a human being with any deeper sensation or honest regard that would, absent mechanism, compel them?

Comparing inaugural photographs, AO observed...

It's an adult version of the tantrum. HARD spin mode. He must have been dizzy afterwards. Yes, clearly it was the coverings vs. the grass, that obscured the numbers. Uhh no, the grass is actually a very light shade of yellow which didn't obscure empty space at all.

Couldn't help but notice there are appreciably fewer people on the left side of Trump's crowd looking forward. . .do you think they made the RINOs stand there? lain:

While...

I'm still waiting for Trump to claim the crowd size differential was mostly about illegals. lain:

Then EE's response to the address led to...

Best Presidential Speech of our Century!
<(I)>

See, I thought about listening to it drunk too, but with a five year old underfoot it just didn't seem like the thing to do.

Meanwhile Cake-Gate was gathering steam...or icing...anyway, Trump copied the last inaugural cake and left most of it to special effects instead of edibles, so...

Is the cake important?

Ask Marie (not Callenders). lain: :chew:

How much time is he supposed to have spent putting his own personal stamp on the design?

Not much. Probably, "Hey, that Obama cake looked pretty good. Do that one again. . . Just make sure it looks good enough to swallow, like you want to swallow it, but if you do it'll give you the...[distracted by a Tweet].

That sort of thing.

Then one celebrator surfaced from the punch bowl to declare...

You defendomg a woman's child like behavior when she doesn't get her way

You're not even trying for a half-truth with that one. lain: You should run for Congress.

While the air remained charged with rhetorical tits and tats...

Anti-Trump protesters say Trump will destroy America...

Anti-Trump protesters go out and destroy America. : )

Well...Trump is only draining the swamp to build condos.

Which reminded me...

I was talking with a conservative friend of mine the other day and along the way I noted the relative scarcity of conservative humorists.

Friend: "How about Jeff Foxworthy?"

Me: "Whose point are you trying to make with that?

Friend: "A lot of people find him very funny."

Me: "Same response."

Me: "Maybe it's just an illustration of market forces at work."

Friend: "Meaning?"

Me: "There you go."

GM put in his inflation riddled pennies...

If it were left up to the Democrat Libs they'd dismantle this country brick by brick.

To borrow from...me...that's a stupid thing to say or believe. I don't believe you're stupid, but when you write something like that you waste the difference.

I'm glad to be on the RIGHT side. The winning side

Winning or losing has nothing to do with principle, unless that's your principle.

Before I noted a peculiar and funny truth about voter fraud attempts to dismiss the margin of "victory"...

I'm sure there are valid reasons and I didn't think Bannon had actually voted twice. I posted it because of the irony in Trump tweeting about an investigation and then a close adviser has multiple registrations.

The funny thing about the voter fraud Trump alleged (in an attempt to dismiss the nearly three million voter difference in favor of Clinton) is his own lawyers argued against him in seeking to stop voter recounts in 3 states that decided the election by razor thin margins. lain:

And I'll wrap the coverage with this gem...

And now a word from our sponsors:

Tomorrow? Sins of omission, faith, hope, and charity is next to thievery... lain:

 

[Town Heretic]

Working up a few changes for a blues number. The lyrics for this...they didn't take a minute. Just flowed. I played it for a few people and they couldn't believe it. That's what one friend of mine said. "I don't believe you just played that for me." Blew me away. Here it is then.

Flyin' Monkey Blues

Monkey talkin on the telephone

a little red cap and a red vest on

he leaned back in the window

back in the window, now he's gone

miss that monkey, miss my telephone.

(break)

Monkey eyes, monkey flys
monkey jibber, jabber, monkey lies


Step around him, leave his cap alone

little monkey pile of flesh and bone

we're all just yammerin, leanin, then we're gone

step around him, but pick up that phone

pick up that phone, lord, pick up that phone

it's mine.

 

[Town Heretic]

The Wrap
on Monday

An old friend stopped in to opine from across the pond...

This is mighty fascinating stuff, wish I could just sit in the stands and watch the chaos unfold; but sadly I genuinely fear what this means for the world not just the US.

Thanks for unleashing what is essentially the equivalent of a petulant child on the world whilst he uses a high chair as the most powerful seat in the world.

Don't worry though, you're not alone, the UK walks with you when it comes to making totally stupid describes based on Lisa's and hatred.

Sorry about the mess, but an actual minority of the voters here made it...true story. lain:

Anna noted a peculiar appointment that made me wonder...

Trump Staffer Who Shared Racist Social Media Posts To Join Dept Of Education

A South Carolina staffer for Donald Trump’s campaign whose racist social media posts drew attention during the election will join the Department of Education, the Huffington Post reported Thursday.​

:think:

Do you think Trump is attempting to encourage diversity? I mean, stupid, bigoted people might be underrepresented in government service...excepting Congress, of course.

While the new kid weighed in on welfare as a public charity with...

]It's all irrelevant. The Bible very clearly states that a 10% tax is tyrannical. We are currently taxed about 50%, with most of that going to one welfare program of some sort or another.

The last time I looked the highest federal tax bracket is just short of 40%. The highest state tax, Minnesota, is a little over nine. So, if you were wealthy and lived in Minnesota you might approach that 50%. I'd suggest that a) most people aren't and don't and b) those who are and do have any number of creative ways to avoid it (see: Trump).

And I'm weary of the abuse of 1 Samuel 8 by people with an agenda. What Samuel actually notes is a host of things that are a bit more than a simple 10% tax. That tyrant takes the children into his service, takes the best of everything the citizen has (fields, groves and orchards) to give to his favorites and THEN takes a tenth of your food and vintage to give to his supporters, and then takes your servants, your beasts of burden to use as he sees fit and THEN takes a tenth of your sheep. Now if you follow that, while a tenth is involved, the tyranny involves taking a good bit more and all of it is relating tyranny in parts to a people who would best understand the burden by relating it to their obligation under the law.

I'm not a slave to that obligation. As a Christian I'm compelled to do more (see: Matthew 5:41 for the idea).

In addition, the Bible also states that a government's roles to perform are only three things, protecting it's citizens, infrastructure, and when possible, protecting other. It does not have the authority to take care of it's citizens.

Spoiler

"The Bible itself legislates several laws which are in effect a sort of tax for the benefit of the poor. Among these are leket, shikhḥah,and pe'ah as well as the special tithe for the poor (see ma'aser ). The institution of the sabbatical year (see Sabbatical Year and Jubilee) was in order "that the poor of the people may eat" (Ex. 23: 11) as well as to cancel debts about which the warning was given: "If there be among you a needy man, one of your brethren, within thy gates, in thy land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thy heart nor shut thy hand from thy needy brother; but thou shalt surely open thy hand unto him and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need in that which he wanteth. Beware that there be not a base thought in thy heart, saying 'The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand'; and thine eye be evil against thy needy brother and thou give him nought; and he say unto the Lord against thee and it be sin in thee. Thou shalt surely give him, and thy heart shall not be grieved when thou givest unto him; because that for this thing the Lord thy God will bless thee in all thy work…." (Deut. 15:7–10)." Link

And the consideration of our approach...

When using God as one's standard for righteousness and truth, anything that contradicts/goes against Him and His nature is wrong.

As decided by? Now before you rush to say, "God" recall that an awful lot of people, older, younger, and the same age as you have an awful lot of different opinions and judgments about a great deal of scripture. There are people here who would question your faith if you have a Christmas tree and some who believe you have to work your way to heaven. Others say you must worship on Saturday. Some think you have problems if you're eating pork. And so on.

Again, you can be a liberal and remain a Christian. You can be an atheist and find comfort in conservatism. Both happen daily. Whenever you find yourself making as broad a declaration as you did it tells me two things, either you're very young and haven't had sufficient time and exposure to understand your error, or you haven't thought it through for some other reason, because their is no reasonable excuse for believing that blunderbuss approach to an opposing ideology.

I'm a moderate. I view both branches with appreciation and skepticism. I find much admirable and true and a good bit of nonsense in either end, with the white noise increasing the further in and farther out one goes. Before you get to that is a great deal of complicated and worthwhile truth, even in difference.

Finished up with Stripe on the public charity of welfare...

Webster's does nothing to either establish your narrative or deny my definition.

Rather, Merriam-Webster's definition of charity is met by welfare in every particular needed to establish it.

We collectively elect people to stand in our place and speak for us. Their actions are voluntary in establishing the institutions of that public giving as is the yearly budgetary allowance for it. The point is to address those in need and establish and thereafter maintain institutions engaged in that relief. Welfare is, therefore, a willful, intentional giving to those in need from a common purse that meets the definition in authority give below, evidencing goodwill toward humanity, being an expression of generosity and helpfulness, especially toward the needy and suffering, as aid given those in need and provided by an institution engaged in that relief. Or, a public charity.

From Merriam Webster: "1. benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity 2. a: generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering; also: aid given to those in need b: an institution engaged in relief of the poor c: public provision for the relief of the needy 3 a: a gift for public benevolent purposes b: an institution (as a hospital) founded by such a gift 4: lenient judgment of others.

The rest is you, Stripe, making noise and moving goalposts. The rest is you being loudly wrong and demanding respect for the effort. You will not have it. I respect the right to hold any opinion that suits you. The opinion itself will either have to stand on merit or, as is the case in your rejection of a clear, demonstrable truth, fail.

Before Cruc had a go at...

when a person resorts to dictionaries, they are simply resorting to popular bias.

Not if you understand the function of language. Words mean particular things. When you alter the meaning to suit your disposition you work at cross purpose to the point. People who do that are attempting to force the truth into a shape that pleases them. It's a sort of willful delusion that insists everyone share it, but it isn't a truth beyond that expression of distortion and bias.

While on the vagaries of youth...

I'm 23, an adult, so perhaps to you, youthful. I have enough experience to know that being so open minded that my brains drip out of my skull onto the ground is a bad thing.

See, that's bumper sticker rhetoric. The truth is that being open minded isn't being indecisive or unsure. It's simply being open to consideration and examination on a point. And any truth should both invite and withstand that sort of thing.

Responded to a question...

Let's say Trump groped women. How does that compare with allowing partial birth abortions?

How does a legal sin of omission compare with breaking the law and violating moral principle? But beyond that, why choose between the two? They're both reprehensible.

Before coming full circle with the question of obligations...

Jesus Himself said that the poor will always be with us.

He wasn't suggesting an indifference in thought or action. Murder will always be present in our imperfect world, but we don't alter our opposition to it over that fact.

I know that the Lord will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and justice for the poor. Psalm 140:12

Did not your father eat and drink, and do justice and righteousness? Then it was well with him. He pled the cause of the afflicted and needy; then it was well. Is that not what it means to know Me?" declares the Lord. Jeremiah 22:16

He who is gracious to a poor man lends to the Lord, and He will repay him for his good deed. Proverbs 19:17

The righteous is concerned for the rights of the poor; the wicked does not understand such concern. Proverbs 29:7

We're not going to be able to change that

You can change it for many. The inability to do all good should never preclude the effort to do the good we can do.

But did you know that the poor in America, because our standard of living is better than most of the rest of the world, live better than the middle class in Europe.

Our poor are better off than in a large part of the world, which you'd expect from the the richest nation on earth. The "better than the middle class in Europe" is complete nonsense. You may be thinking of a Pew bit that noted our poor live better than the middle class of much of the world. But much of the world lives in abject poverty. By way of example, 56% of Americans were in the world's high income group in 2011. How did they manage it? By living on more than 50 dollars a day. lain: Global income comparatives can lead to a family of four being classified as middle class by virtue of a 15k a year income. And while that might buy you a surprising amount in some third world countries it won't allow you to live here without assistance.

Tomorrow? Skyrim. All day. Nothing but. A long week of family drama, hospitals, and a miraculous eight page paper in the middle. :smack:

 

[Town Heretic]

Inside the Numbers bonus.

So I wrapped up a look at Quixote's since its inception and even given the numbers drain around here things have gone relatively well for the Wrap.

2013 was the busiest year for posts, 2015 the best for overall views, but this year continues the trend of increasing views to post, an uptick stronger for the removal of a few regular trolls, which while decreasing the total posts saw an uptick in views without them. That was gratifying.

Here's how the numbers have shaken out so far:

2013: 900 posts on 32,464 views, for a 36.1 VPP (view per post)

2014: 743 posts on 38,238 views, for a 51.5 VPP

2015: 789 posts on 57,518 views, for a 72.9 VPP

2016: 525 posts on 43,300 views, for a 82.5 VPP


2017 is starting slow across the board as grad school continues to eat into my time. January saw 2,457 views on 6 posts as I couldn't find much time to either post or gather, so the total is a bit low unless I'm angling for a 72 post or so year. The VVP is pretty terrific, meaning whoever you are you haven't given up on me over the slow down. Thanks for that. February is off to a decent start, with 3 postings already (four with this) and a new Wrap to follow sometime today...maybe momentarily.