The "elect" means Israel - The "elect" in the Bible are of Israel only -
Total Depravity, Totally Refuted
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
AMEN!!!
beloved57
Well-known member
The Elect does stand for Israel, Israel the Body of Christ, the Church !
That's right, it's not just for calvin's cult -
The Church is not Israel!!! That is Replacement Theology which is heresy.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
How many bodies of Christ are there?
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
I Corinthians 12:13
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10:11-13
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Galatians 3:27-29
If the church is Abraham's seed and there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ, then what distinction needs to be made?
nikolai_42
Well-known member
I don't think so. I believe the church encompasses Jew and Gentile from the beginning. While the Jews were chosen to carry the Word of God prior to Christ coming on the scene, their claim to distinction doesn't go beyond that. They and Gentile believers (in the light of Christ's death, burial and resurrection - and ascension to the right hand of the Father) are all part of the same body. So it's not replacement - it's just making clear the fact that there is no salvation in any other but Christ. Not for anyone (whether Jew or Gentile) and that Christians are partakers of the promise to Abraham just as much as Jews are. The church didn't replace Israel - it's the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham (and Eve, really). Looking back, Israel was just the church in the wilderness (Acts 7:38). So I would say I would believe in what I would call continuation theology in terms of the church and Israel.
EDIT:
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Acts 15:7-9
What Israel's role in distinction to the heathen was before Christ is the same thing as the modern church's role with respect to the world in light of Christ. Different names, maybe, but same function (same people).
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I sort of agree with what you said except that God is not done with Israel. That is what replacement theology is. God is not finished with Israel and The Church has not taken Israel's place.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Since I don't see a real distinction between the two, it's hard for me to say where I stand on that. Paul said "All Israel will be saved" (Romans 11:26) but he also said that "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly" (Romans 2:28-29). And Jesus called the Pharisees children of the devil when they claimed Abraham for their father (Matthew 3:9 and John 8:39). So it seems to me that God's reckoning of natural heritage is something different than ours (not saying it is meaningless since Christ was of David's line). Paul's words in Galatians 4:21-31 are very strong against anyone wanting to go back to the Law. If you take away the Law and the lineage, what's left that distinguishes Old Covenant Israel? Just that they were given the distinction of bearing God's revelation to the world (and most of them rejected it).
I suppose, while I wouldn't adhere to replacement theology I don't find myself agreeing with the dispensational take either. That's assuming one can take a "middle ground".
EDIT: Romans 11 certainly seems to indicate that many Jews will come in in the last days.
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Brother Ducky
New member
Hard to see Romans 8 as being all about Jews.
Ask Mr. Religion
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I can agree to these statements, Robert.
All are born into the world as lost. Check!
It is the preaching of the Gospel that brings life. Check! For those born into the world have no life until re-born (Eze. 36:26) by the hearing of the Gospel.
Of course, you will have to flesh out exactly who has ears to hear. :AMR:
ANSWER: Only those given new hearts. Eze. 36:26. Once that happens, they will have ears to hear and will believe.
AMR
Synergism is the brood mother of virtually all known heresy, cults, and apostasy.
Why?
Because when you smuggle in man's autonomy into the acts of God, you perform the worst evil of all, and claim God's glory for yourself. You replace God's authority with your own. You make your own will as the final arbiter in matters of faith and righteousness.
It is from this system that thousands of varying errors have sprung, many attempting to mimic Christianity.
Make no mistake, you are either a synergist or a monergist. There is no middle ground.
The former is erroneous.
The latter is Biblical.
If you are a Monergist, you are a Calvinist.
However, if you are a synergist, you might go by any number of names, but a synergist you are.
Why?
Because when you smuggle in man's autonomy into the acts of God, you perform the worst evil of all, and claim God's glory for yourself. You replace God's authority with your own. You make your own will as the final arbiter in matters of faith and righteousness.
It is from this system that thousands of varying errors have sprung, many attempting to mimic Christianity.
Make no mistake, you are either a synergist or a monergist. There is no middle ground.
The former is erroneous.
The latter is Biblical.
If you are a Monergist, you are a Calvinist.
However, if you are a synergist, you might go by any number of names, but a synergist you are.
Synergism is the brood mother of virtually all known heresy, cults, and apostasy.
Why?
Because when you smuggle in man's autonomy into the acts of God, you perform the worst evil of all, and claim God's glory for yourself. You replace God's authority with your own. You make your own will as the final arbiter in matters of faith and righteousness.
It is from this system that thousands of varying errors have sprung, many attempting to mimic Christianity.
Make no mistake, you are either a synergist or a monergist. There is no middle ground.
The former is erroneous.
The latter is Biblical.
If you are a Monergist, you are a Calvinist.
However, if you are a synergist, you might go by any number of names, but a synergist you are.
Ah, you don't really know what you're talking about. You're a "Calvinist Puppet." You only speak what "The Dead Pope of Geneva" tells you to say.
If God gives some a new heart so that they can hear and believe the Gospel, then your God is unjust. If he is unjust then he is also a sinner and cannot be trusted.
beloved57
Well-known member
Blaspheming God!
"He did it all, all we have to do is believe."
Classic Free Will Moronic Mantra
This is another classic example of the self-contradictory nature of the "free willers" false theology.
You are so blind you can't even see how utterly ABSURD it is to say something like "He did it ALL, ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS BELIEVE."
DUH! Only a cloud of deception could make a normally intelligent man say something so stupid and self contradictory.
You free willers don't really believe that God did it ALL and that Salvation is 100% of God and 0% of man.
You think that unless you choose of your own free will to believe, then ALL that God did at the cross is to no avail at all.
You don't REALLY believe that ANYBODY was in fact redeemed or reconciled to God at the cross. That "missing ingredient" is "your faith", or it means nothing.
And the fact is, it is God himself who gives to his people both the repentance and the faith to believe.
We believe because we are elected. It is not that we become elected because we believe. You have everything backwards and upside down.
You're finally getting it !!!
That's what you do -