toldailytopic: The Catholic Church: God's official church? Or, theology gone astray?

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for February 12th, 2010 10:33 AM

toldailytopic: The Catholic Church: God's official church? Or, theology gone astray?

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[yeshuaslavejeff]

... ___ ...

 

[Trumpetfolker]

@ knight

@ knight

In my opinion, to understand the place of the Roman Catholic Church you must understand a statement made by Jesus.

Lu 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

The problem is this: If you have drunk old wine, you won't have a taste for new.
When the New Wine went out among the various ethnicities, it went out among people who had their old religions. Upon being introduced to a better way, they were willing to make changes and become true Christians. However, they liked to retain the flavor of the old religion, so they kept the old structure.
The old structure was Nicolaitan in procedure, and unsaved men could do the Nicolaitan procedure better than any. These were men like Diotrophes who entered privily to spy out the liberty. They learned how to talk like they knew God, but they rejected the decrees that came from the apostles and elders at Jerusalem. So, in works, they denied the Lord.
Thus, Christians got a little new wine and a lot of old until God would find some one like Huss, Calvin, Zwingly, Luther, Knox, Wesley, and others who would develop a taste for a little more new wine- and a little less old. However, the groups they started kept some old wine in the blend, and there adherents still preferred those blends.
Today, we have Charismatic wine/old wine, Calvin wine/old wine, Pentecostal wine/old wine, and Wesley wine/old wine, and Bullinger wormwood/old wine.
The old wine that is kept in the mix is the resistance to the commands which, when observed by the Jerusalem converts, was demonstrated by having all things in common as a priesthood does. Today, almost all churches are built around a few men and/or women licensed by the governments of men to be Nicolaitans- lording it over the flock of Christ.
So... all of ya denominationalists are theology gone astray. None of ya do it right. Good thing God desires compassion and not sacrifice.
But, mocking other groups makes people feel better about their own insecurities. Plus, it's necessary for gaining market share.

Gal 5:13 ¶ For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

 

[godrulz]

The Catholic Church is NOT the one and only true Church of Christ (official). It evolved later in church history and incorporated aspects of paganism. The Pope is not the vicar of Christ, tradition is not on par with Scripture, Peter was not the first pope, etc. They have extra/contrabiblical teachings (Mary, saints, purgatory, rosary, indulgences, penance, etc.).

Because they have a sound doctrine of God (Trinity) and Christology (Deity/resurrection of Christ), they are not in the same boat as pseudo-Christian cults (JWs, Mormons). Many Catholics are religious/ritual/nominal, but others do have a relationship with Christ/salvation.

The Catholic Church is not Babylon and the Pope is not the Antichrist, but it is possible aspects of her/him will be part of the future apostate church during the Tribulation.

The RCC is under the umbrella of Christianity (vs Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.), as is Orthodox and the many Protestant denominations. While many evangelicals are genuinely converted, too many Catholics, nominal Protestants, Orthodox are more religious than regenerated (strayed from the simplicity of the gospel).

Salvation is in a person, not an organization (Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12; Jn. 1:12; Jn. 3:16), so it is possible for individuals in any given 'Christian' church to know Christ despite the mix of truth and error in the official churches/groups/denominations.

We should avoid the extremes of anti-Catholicism conspiracy and thinking it is THE true church and necessary for salvation. We should not compromise truth, but we should also be fair (we are saved by grace through faith, not theological perfection...Catholics do have much in common with other 'Christian' denominations and some Catholics love Jesus more than some Protestant pew warmers).

 

[keypurr]

The Catholic Church is NOT the one and only true Church of Christ (official). It evolved later in church history and incorporated aspects of paganism. The Pope is not the vicar of Christ, tradition is not on par with Scripture, Peter was not the first pope, etc. They have extra/contrabiblical teachings (Mary, saints, purgatory, rosary, indulgences, penance, etc.).

You right on this one GR. The church was assembled over the first few hundred years and truth was distorted.

Because they have a sound doctrine of God (Trinity) and Christology (Deity/resurrection of Christ), they are not in the same boat as pseudo-Christian cults (JWs, Mormons). Many Catholics are religious/ritual/nominal, but others do have a relationship with Christ/salvation.

Here is where we part. The RCC sound doctrine you mention is false. Sincere folks who were uneducated in truth supported many false pagan doctrines. Satan was already at work during Paul's time.

The Catholic Church is not Babylon and the Pope is not the Antichrist, but it is possible aspects of her/him will be part of the future apostate church during the Tribulation.

We disagree again. Being the strongest church at it time it overcame the other Christian religions. It imposed upon them all kinds of error filled doctrines to apease the Pagans to join in a one state controlled church.

The RCC is under the umbrella of Christianity (vs Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.), as is Orthodox and the many Protestant denominations. While many evangelicals are genuinely converted, too many Catholics, nominal Protestants, Orthodox are more religious than regenerated (strayed from the simplicity of the gospel).

I guess there are many Christiam churches, but how many are really "Christian"

Salvation is in a person, not an organization (Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12; Jn. 1:12; Jn. 3:16), so it is possible for individuals in any given 'Christian' church to know Christ despite the mix of truth and error in the official churches/groups/denominations.

AMEN, we agree again

We should avoid the extremes of anti-Catholicism conspiracy and thinking it is THE true church and necessary for salvation. We should not compromise truth, but we should also be fair (we are saved by grace through faith, not theological perfection...Catholics do have much in common with other 'Christian' denominations and some Catholics love Jesus more than some Protestant pew warmers).

I think the early church did a lot of compromising and that is the problem. It is time to get back to truth.

I have many loved ones in my life who are devoted RC. As individuals they only believe what they have been taught. They are God fearing and truly think that they are worshiping the creator. But the hoodwinking does not stop at the doors of the RCC, it has been carried over into the "other" Christian churches. The deception that they promoted has spread to most all faiths under the umbrella of Christian churches.
Babylon is falling, come out of her while you can.
Peace

 

[Peripatetic]

The Roman Catholic Church is a Christian Church that officially became apostate (finally broke the last remaining thread and departed from the Gospel by condemning Sola Fide and anathematizing all who held to it) at the Council of Trent, and has yet to recover.

 

[Town Heretic]

I don't believe in an "official" church, only the Body. And like any good family, it's willfully dysfunctional. :maxi:

NOt One, not Two, not Three, but ALL of the reformers/bible teachers
agree
that
the rcc has been the main instrument of the god of this world since it started about 312a.d.....
...
and
since the book given by the MightY One, Creator of All
agrees that the whole world will be deceived by it,
it is
then no surprise that they are.
...
Jesus Himself said plainly - "the truth will be published and called a lie, the lie will be called 'truth' "....
..
so do not , no , do not, no , not ever, trust a man/men/mankind...
you can be sure that the majority/society/world is not just wrong, but dead wrong and blind and naked and wretched.
..
Read the book yourself, and tremble and the Creator's Word....
and REJOICE in HIS SALVATION if He allows you to.

:think:......so that's a no then.

 

[annabenedetti]

The Church founded by Christ is the Catholic Church.

 

[annabenedetti]

It evolved later in church history

No, it did not.

 

[GoingGoldenWCU]

The Catholic Church: God's official church? Or, theology gone astray?

I think that all Churches are inherently flawed by nature of their human creators. I also don't think there can be an 'official' church in today's world even though I suppose that is the ideal situation. I don't think they have gone astray of theology any more than protestant churches have, although you can make the argument either way. Historically, however, they have much more of a claim to the 'official' church and theology than other branches might.

I suppose my answer is neither, then.

 

[Dark Radiance]

The Catholic Church was God's"official" (whatever that means) institution for the first 1500 years of the Christian Era. So, I suppose my answer is Yes to the former part of the OP, and a tentative No to the latter part of the OP, since "theology" is fairly broad term. If you wish to clarify what you mean in the OP, I would be happy to respond.

 

[PlastikBuddha]

There is no "official" church, but I don't think they've gone any further astray, as a collective, than anyone else. A little too big for their britches, sometimes, but...

 

[Ktoyou]

I hold a special allegiance to the Catholic Church. This church was the universal Christian Church when most of Europe was pagan. The Catholic Church Christianized Europe; it was the church of Christ, the Body of Christ. Moreover, the fathers of the Catholic Church created the Bible, not scripture, for this existed in many forms, but one only needs a little background to know the much of scripture was not included in the Bible. Now this might have been under divine intervention, or just human decision-making, but it was the work of the early Church that we, today, call the Catholic Church. There are many ‘lost books’ that did not pass canon. The Bible some hold as the sole source for reconciliation with God are those scriptures decided as Holy by the Catholic Church.

There has been no Protestant groups that chose to look back and include the gospel of Thomas, or Peter, or the epistle of Clement. Protestants made changes in doctrine, not scripture. I follow the Episcopalian Church because I believe in its doctrine, not in a different gospel.

 

[Persephone66]

The church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the one true church.

 

[InHope]

I have many loved ones in my life who are devoted RC. As individuals they only believe what they have been taught. They are God fearing and truly think that they are worshiping the creator. But the hoodwinking does not stop at the doors of the RCC, it has been carried over into the "other" Christian churches. The deception that they promoted has spread to most all faiths under the umbrella of Christian churches.

I believe that anyone who believes they are worshipping the Creator IS, in fact, worshipping Him- God judges hearts, not theology.


In answer to the OP, of course I believe the Catholic Church is the True Church- otherwise I'd be quite a hypocrite, now wouldn't I?

 

[WizardofOz]

I believe that anyone who believes they are worshipping the Creator IS, in fact, worshipping Him- God judges hearts, not theology.

:thumb:

Otherwise we are all being judged by our academic merit in regard to dogma and doctrine.

Remember: Bring a #2 pencil with you to the pearly gates

 

[kmoney]

I don't think it has to be one of those 2 options. I wouldn't say it's God's official church, but I don't think you can completely label it as theology gone astray. It's just one church of many. I like some aspects of the Catholic church. Others not so much. Like most denominations, I'd say.

 

[keypurr]

I believe that anyone who believes they are worshipping the Creator IS, in fact, worshipping Him- God judges hearts, not theology.

I agree that God will judge the heart and intent of a person.

In answer to the OP, of course I believe the Catholic Church is the True Church- otherwise I'd be quite a hypocrite, now wouldn't I?

The RCC was one of MANY early Christian churches. To say that it was the only one that exsisted would be in error.

We are all hypocrates in one way or another.

Peace

 

[Spitfire]

I think, in light of some of the answers to this, another topic should be at some point: what does the word "church" mean to you? Is it meaningful to speak of "the Church?" Assuming Catholics have got it all wrong (as most of you do assume,) what criteria must be met for an individual or group of individuals to become part of the Church? Or, are there just various churches? In which case, what determines which churches are genuine and which are not? Etc.

 

[Nick M]

The Catholic Church is NOT the one and only true Church of Christ (official). It evolved later in church history and incorporated aspects of paganism. The Pope is not the vicar of Christ, tradition is not on par with Scripture, Peter was not the first pope, etc. They have extra/contrabiblical teachings (Mary, saints, purgatory, rosary, indulgences, penance, etc.).

Because they have a sound doctrine of God (Trinity) and Christology (Deity/resurrection of Christ), they are not in the same boat as pseudo-Christian cults (JWs, Mormons). Many Catholics are religious/ritual/nominal, but others do have a relationship with Christ/salvation.

The Catholic Church is not Babylon and the Pope is not the Antichrist, but it is possible aspects of her/him will be part of the future apostate church during the Tribulation.

The RCC is under the umbrella of Christianity (vs Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.), as is Orthodox and the many Protestant denominations. While many evangelicals are genuinely converted, too many Catholics, nominal Protestants, Orthodox are more religious than regenerated (strayed from the simplicity of the gospel).

Salvation is in a person, not an organization (Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12; Jn. 1:12; Jn. 3:16), so it is possible for individuals in any given 'Christian' church to know Christ despite the mix of truth and error in the official churches/groups/denominations.

We should avoid the extremes of anti-Catholicism conspiracy and thinking it is THE true church and necessary for salvation. We should not compromise truth, but we should also be fair (we are saved by grace through faith, not theological perfection...Catholics do have much in common with other 'Christian' denominations and some Catholics love Jesus more than some Protestant pew warmers).

And your Acts 2 church is? :rotfl: