toldailytopic: Is there any point in praying for the dead?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Buzzword
New member
Yeah, I waited a looong time to put him/her on ignore.
Just realized I was avoiding his/her threads anyway out of concern for personal sanity, so might as well.
:yawn: You're projecting again. :noway: Eph 4:14
What TOL rule do you believe I've broken? :smokie:
ThePresbyteers said that the pope is often first in Catholic's lives rather than Jesus.
You made a truth claim, saying: "This is a categorically false statement."
I offered proof that ThePresbyteers was right.
each: You never retracted your previous statement. Would you like to here? :idunno: We allow that.
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Cruciform
New member
The one prohibiting trolling.
What you did was publically lie about another poster, intentionally misrepresenting what I said, as you've done several times on this forum. Don't make me expose you yet again. Go troll somewhere else.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Surnaturel
New member
:yawn: You're projecting again. :noway: Eph 4:14
What TOL rule do you believe I've broken? :smokie:
ThePresbyteers said that the pope is often first in Catholic's lives rather than Jesus.
You made a truth claim, saying: "This is a categorically false statement."
I offered proof that ThePresbyteers was right.
You are categorically wrong and you are trolling. No Catholic thinks that, don't be foolish. It's like saying that Protestants are more concerned with Calvin, Luther, John Piper, whoever than Jesus.....a dumb statement.
Challenging your false claim is not trolling. You fail to support your charges with proof (Eph 4:14).
each:Let the reader decide.
each::yawn: Anyone who disagrees with you is a troll?
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Surnaturel
New member
Purgatory is rooted in the Bible and confirmed in the writings of the Church Fathers (1 cor 3:15 ). The predominate Pharisaic teaching on Gehenna from Second Temple Judaism (Hillel and Shammaite) was that those who had faith yet also had unconfessed sins would be refined in the purgative fire (metaphorical) until they were made perfect for heaven (remedial) (revelation 3:18). Others, who did not have faith and were wicked, suffered punitively for an indefinite amount of time.
Ask Mr. Religion
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No.
Catholics often appeal, erroneously, to 1 John for their view.
The sin unto death in 1 John is related to the testimony of God given in Chapter 5 that is not believed. This sin follows the spirit of error from Chapter 4, Chapter 3's hating of the brethren, Chapter 2's abandonment of the apostolic communion, and Chapter 1's walking in darkness. All of which clearly illustrates there was never any true fellowship (1 John 1:3). Nothing related to purgatory at all.
AMR
Cruciform
New member
Post #84.
No. Anyone engaged in the act of trolling---yourself, for example---is a troll.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Cruciform
New member
See Post #38 above.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
No.
linger:If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire [1 Cor. 3:15].
"You see the contrast: “If any man’s work abide” which he built on the foundation, he shall receive a reward; if any man’s work goes up in smoke, he will suffer a terrible loss, but he himself will be saved. He does not lose his salvation if he is on the foundation, which is trust in Christ, even though he receives no reward.
Friend, what are you building today? What kind of material are you using? If you are building with gold, it may not be very impressive now. If you are building an old haystack, it will really stand out on the horizon, but it will go up in smoke. I like to put it like this: there are going to be some people in heaven who will be there because their foundation is Christ but who will smell as if they had been bought at a fire sale! Everything they ever did will have gone up in smoke. They will not receive a reward for their works.
Now if you are a carnal Christian, you cannot expect a reward because you have not been rightly related to God through the Word of God. The carnal Christian is the one who does not know the Word of God. You see, one can identify the three categories which Paul mentions by their relation to the Word of God. The natural man says it is foolishness. The spiritual man discerns the Word, and it gives him spiritual insight. The carnal Christian says, “Let’s have a banquet and not a Bible study.” Or he says, “Let’s listen to music rather than to the teaching of the Word of God.” That is the way you can identify the carnal Christian." McGee, J. Vernon: Thru the Bible Commentary. electronic ed. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1981, S. 5:18
See:
What does the Bible say about Purgatory? Will there be a time of fiery cleansing for believers after death in Purgatory?
ThePresbyteers
New member
Rooted ?
Rome claims equality of their ostensible Teaching Office, and traditions (e.g. ECF), with the Holy Bible. Then why are those writings not included in the canon of Scripture ?
Rome added the spurious Apocrypha into their bible. If their Teaching Office and traditions are inspired of God, shouldn't those be included in God's Word, too ?
Highly developed false religions tend to have this feature. Or, at least, when I debate Romanists and demands the authority for their heresies, they cite "Oral Tradition".
[ Mormons are an additional example. They add their Book of Mormon and Doctrines and Covenants to the Bible. ]
Jews have their oral traditions written down (Talmud). Romanists claim variously anything from secret knowledge passed-on to the popes, to all the writings of the Early Church Fathers (ECF). Either being a ridiculous alibi.
The writings of the ECF were never oral tradition. And no Pope has ever claimed secretly imparted oral traditions revealed only to him !
It's merely an excuse to get around God's written word (Bible). And invent extra-scriptural "traditions".
In this manner we can do what we want instead of be confined to the dictates of our Creator !
What the papists call "tradition" is comprised only of later writings of dubious Early Church Fathers [ECF], or the modern inventions of popes and heretical councils.
It's time for roto-rooter to clean all that pooo!
ThePresbyteers
New member
You can BAN me if you want like I care. I prefer proclaiming the Gospel, first, as much as I can while I'm here.
They aren't stupid at TOL. You think they'd give Cruciform :reals: any power :banned: whatsoever? :dizzy: He's accuses anyone who disagrees with him of being a troll. Example one, example two.
each: His proof is, "You disagree with me." :freak: Eph 4:14You keep sharing (Pr 31:9).
oly: The dogs will be at your heals (Ps 22:16). linger:
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Sheila B
Member
It is not a man made doctrine. The definition of it certainly has evolved, as well it should. The holy spirit has been promised to lead us into all the truth, right?
resurrection and mercy in case they have not risen into heaven immediately but have need of further purification
Given that there is ONLY heaven and hell to choose from. what else could they be praying for?
Probably unable to.
ThePresbyteers
New member
They use the fact of their being the world's largest "Christian" religion as somehow proof that their theology is best.
I'll tell 'em: "This ain't McDonald's '20 Million Served' !".
They view "The Church" as belonging to Rome.
Whereas, TOL sees it as Christ's Church. We're allowed to join it, but it ain't our Church !
Romes tries to have salvation-by-grace without faith alone. But it don't work !
Minus a gifted faith, then it ain't grace. It's something we merit.
You must merit yourself to be supersized saved.
zippy2006
New member
You seem to be failing to understand an opposing viewpoint. Do Catholics accept all of the presuppositions you make here? If not, which do they not accept? How does that thing they do not accept impact the conversation? :idea: