toldailytopic: Is there any point in praying for the dead?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
As far as I am aware Bob, and Knight both believe, as I do, that all the persons of the trinity experience time sequentially.
ThePresbyteers
New member
It's impossible to get around their praying to dead saints, the idolatrous worship of Mary, re-sacrificial Mass, auricular confession, Ultramontanism, traditions of men elevated above God's Word, false doctrines like works of satisfaction, second conversion, and transubstantiation.
The Pope is first in the Catholics lives ...not Christ.
Christ can't be first when they refuse His doctrines.
Luther did all that stuff including praying to dead saints !
As for his pilgrimage to Rome: his seems to be the turning point in Luther's conversion from Papism to Christianity.
The Pope is first in the Catholics lives ...not Christ.
Christ can't be first when they refuse His doctrines.
Luther did all that stuff including praying to dead saints !
As for his pilgrimage to Rome: his seems to be the turning point in Luther's conversion from Papism to Christianity.
Purgatory :rotfl: talk about fantasy...
I just found this thread. Any point? Well, I will tell you a story. My very first violin student was tone deaf. He couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. I tried to get him to play the simple melody of Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star. His bow just scratched across the strings making this awful monotone sound. He could not hear that he was making a terrible noise. His ear didn't respond to the notes because his sense of music was dead. He would never be a musician no matter how hard I tried to teach him.
Well praying for the dead is just a fruitless. The dead are dead. No prayers are going to change their destiny no matter how hard you pray. They had their chances to change while they were living, and once they are dead, their fate is sealed. A dead reprobate is just that. There is nothing you can do to change him. The time to pray for people is while they are still living.
oatmeal
Well-known member
No, there is no point in praying for the dead.
Unless of course you are living the power of God in your life like Elisha, Jesus Christ , Peter or Paul or the disciples that when they prayed for the dead, the dead rose back up to life.
But that is their obedience to God to do what they are told. No by their own will can raise someone else from the dead unless told by God to do so.
oatmeal
Unless of course you are living the power of God in your life like Elisha, Jesus Christ , Peter or Paul or the disciples that when they prayed for the dead, the dead rose back up to life.
But that is their obedience to God to do what they are told. No by their own will can raise someone else from the dead unless told by God to do so.
oatmeal
Demon Buster
New member
NO! there Dead , if you want more info send a message...
Demon Buster
New member
Quote from Christian Forum
Can we pray to the dead? Yes. Should we pray to the dead? NO.
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First of all the Bible does not say that we can.
There is not one place in the Bible that David, Paul, Peter, Daniel, or Abraham ever prayed to the dead. Jesus certainly didn't. When Jesus taught us how to pray. He never said to pray to dead people. He didn't say to ask dead people to pray for us. Nor did He ask dead people to join Him in Prayer.
The Bible DOES say that necromancy (praying to the dead for divination) is an abomination before God.
"There shall not be found among you any one that makes his son or daughter pass through the fire, or that uses divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: And because of these abominations, the Lord thy
God doth drive them out before thee." Deuteronomy. 18:10-12.
Also see. 1 Samuel. 28:3-20..Isaiah 8:19-22.
It is very clear in the Bible that the punishment for talking to the dead for divination is very severe, if not repented of.
Praying to the dead might not be full blown necromancy, but it could easily be the first step to it. Just think about all of the people that have said that a dead person from the Bible, and or a saint came to visit them. That IS a form of necromancy, and usually never recognized as one. And it is an abomination before God, the Bible is clear about it, and there is no arguement.
If a person says they were visited, or whatever by a dead person saint or otherwise. They will never rebuke that spirit, because in the persons mind it is the saint, or the dead person they were talking or praying to, so Satan dupes them into believing in post mortem divination. God would not set up a system that would open the door for this kind of abomination.
Can we pray to the dead? Yes. Should we pray to the dead? NO.
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First of all the Bible does not say that we can.
There is not one place in the Bible that David, Paul, Peter, Daniel, or Abraham ever prayed to the dead. Jesus certainly didn't. When Jesus taught us how to pray. He never said to pray to dead people. He didn't say to ask dead people to pray for us. Nor did He ask dead people to join Him in Prayer.
The Bible DOES say that necromancy (praying to the dead for divination) is an abomination before God.
"There shall not be found among you any one that makes his son or daughter pass through the fire, or that uses divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: And because of these abominations, the Lord thy
God doth drive them out before thee." Deuteronomy. 18:10-12.
Also see. 1 Samuel. 28:3-20..Isaiah 8:19-22.
It is very clear in the Bible that the punishment for talking to the dead for divination is very severe, if not repented of.
Praying to the dead might not be full blown necromancy, but it could easily be the first step to it. Just think about all of the people that have said that a dead person from the Bible, and or a saint came to visit them. That IS a form of necromancy, and usually never recognized as one. And it is an abomination before God, the Bible is clear about it, and there is no arguement.
If a person says they were visited, or whatever by a dead person saint or otherwise. They will never rebuke that spirit, because in the persons mind it is the saint, or the dead person they were talking or praying to, so Satan dupes them into believing in post mortem divination. God would not set up a system that would open the door for this kind of abomination.
zippy2006
New member
Okay. Why should I pray for the dead?
To intercede on their behalf while they are in purgatory.
zippy2006
New member
Woops, you missed this one:
2 Maccabees 12:38-46
Judas rallied his army and went to the city of Adullam. As the seventh day was approaching, they purified themselves according to custom and kept the sabbath there. 39On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his companions went to gather up the bodies of the fallen and bury them with their kindred in their ancestral tombs. 40But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had fallen.f 41They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden. 42* Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.g 43He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection in mind; 44for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. 45But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. 46Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin.
We also have sources dating from the 2nd century B.C. showing that orthodox Judaism (that which Christ and His followers practiced) also upheld this practice.
:e4e:
ThePresbyteers
New member
Everything a person does leaves a vibration behind like a clap of a hand. Clap the hands and the sounds vibrate outwards into the air and space. What makes people think the vibration stops? It still continues. Thoughts are vibrations. When a person dies, the vibrations and every action produced is still flowing in our environments. It still continues and a person can tap it and understand it. Such vibrations also interferes other events. A single vibrating laser beam splits to produce holograms while the other splinted beam produces interference that makes a 3D image. The brain works like a hologram. Thoughts and memory are not really at a single place but scattered at different places and interferes one another like waves overlapping in a pool. Dead are not that dead. Something still lives. So yes you can tap the dead and receive vibrating messages. You can get next weeks lotto number if you cared enough. I got that from Itzhak Bentov. I think I figured out what 2012 dec 21st is about.
I don't expect to be dead but transformed
I don't expect to be dead but transformed
JmckinneyJr.
New member
No. none at all. Those that were saved are at peace now. No pain, fear, worries, or concern for the things of this world. Those that were NOT saved, the only thing they desire, it is better to be alive.
eameece
New member
Quite a bit of nonsense here, not to speak of most of the posts on this thread. Where do I start?
The Bible is just a book, there is no reason to rely on literal words in the Bible for truth. Rely on yourself. You are the one who decides if the Bible is truth or not.
God is within and everywhere. God in not in time, and in time too. Saying which part of God is in time, and which is not, is trying to juggle arbitrary human ideas of what time is. God is greater than puny human concepts of time.
The prohibitions in Deuteronomy were merely intended by early Jews to put down other ways of connection to the divine than theirs. My religion is better than yours, it says; and that's all it says. The other side or spirit world is not an abomination before God; God resides there, with his angels and saints. John visited there in his vision in Revelation, and spoke with the spirits there.
Contact with the dead is very useful. Sometimes they know things that we don't. Possession by demons or other spirits is bad. But we are possessed all the time anyway; it is called addiction. Self-possession is the cure, not denying the reality of the spirit world, or the knowledge that spirits can give us. But again, there is no need to rely on communications from the dead, any more than the Bible or anything else, to know the truth. Again; self-possession. You have to be self-reliant in learning to see the truth and distinguish it from lies. Authority, whether the Bible, the Church which declares it or its preachers and popes to have the literal word of God, or spirits and channelers and diviners, can mislead you if you just accept what authority says without using your own mind and observation.
Cruciform
New member
Your completely unsubstantiated assertion is noted.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Cruciform
New member
This is a categorically false statement. Please get your facts straight before presuming to comment on the Catholic faith on a public forum.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Cruciform
New member
Already answered (Post #38).
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
ThePresbyteers
New member
There is no "Hades" holding pen where souls go to await entrance into either Heaven or Hell.
The souls of the dead go straight to Heaven or Hell ...depending upon whether they were Elect or reprobate.
There is no "Purgatory" where post-mortem salvation is worked out. Our individual salvation, or reprobation, being finalized by the time we die.
:up:
Buzzword
New member
Well, I've now read through the entire thread, and nobody's mentioned the first thing I thought of when reading the title:
Survivor's catharsis.
I've seen it in many mourners who were complete (bitter) atheists light a candle for or say a few words to their deceased loved one, and it helped them deal with the person's absence much better.
Survivor's catharsis.
I've seen it in many mourners who were complete (bitter) atheists light a candle for or say a few words to their deceased loved one, and it helped them deal with the person's absence much better.
SD: [Christ is the head of his church….The statement is true or it is false.]
Cruciform: "It's false..." link 2 Pet. 2:1
"Ouch." ~ E.T.
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