toldailytopic: How do you feel about building a mosque at ground zero?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Oh, like you don't punch that inflatable clown thing (don't even, LH) with sand in the bottom of it (I said don't even, LH) every time you pass by one.
Your lack of grasp of the facts undergirding your own attempts at illustration is nearly as amazing as your footwork dancing away from points you can't answer.
Here's a link. The Pope ordered the nuns to leave. As per your normal MO, you don't know what you're talking about. :sigh:
Would both support a free and independent Palestine homeland? And how do they feel about disco? It doesn't matter. That's not what this is about and the one doesn't lead to the other.
Right. You can't answer my challenge on point so you repeat yourself. Got it. I think everyone does.
No. It leads to defending people who would taint an entire religion based on the actions of a minority of fanatics. It argues that people who don't support and who have condemned that sort of practice should be considered part of the problem and the reasonable source of conflated grief. It's without rational support.
Another irrational ploy, finding a commonality (which you haven't actually done beyond the vague sense of what "further" might entail) and then suggesting the one infers any other without arguing the why or connecting it. You're a second rate rationalist hurling emotion laden nonsense that would have you bounced from a survey course in applied reason at a state college.
Of course there is, but no one is making it because this isn't about the Golden rule.
That's puerile, self celebratory horse feathers. I set out why kowtowing to a bigoted sensibility isn't an act of compassion. This is all you have? A lie wrapped around a disconnected bit of information you can't apply or defend beyond declaration.
:yawn:
A blatant, irrational, oft repeated lie. I set out the counter. You're an empty, waving suit.
Said the fellow who has nothing else to offer...you remain here, as elsewhere, a complete and utter fraud--under thought, ill prepared, and lacking the ability to distinguish fertilizer from a good can of hair creme.
No. As usual it is you getting it wrong. The link states:
First, the new Muslim outreach center should stay in its present location until 2019. When the Pope asked the nuns to leave by 1989, they stayed until 1993. They occupied the premises for nine years.
Many married men quickly learn that there is a difference between asking your wife to do something and ordering her to do it. You may not think there is a difference but many men will differ with you.
No. it is you and the rest of the pseudo intelligentsia that do not appreciate what the majority of the great unwashed do. I know it is a contradiction to write that the NY Times writes something meaningful but it sometimes happens. The idea is that protesting a provocative insensitive action is not the same as condemning Muslim tradition.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/03/nyregion/03poll.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&hp
You do not understand the ethics of the Great Unwashed. You believe you are superior. To me they make perfect sense. I know; I'm a Met fan so what could I know. Only the Great Unwashed are open to the idea that though one is free to do something, it is not wise to do it especially if you are trying to build bridges.
I don't expect you to understand this common sense approach but again, you are part of the intelligent elite that is above common sense and courtesy.
Okay Granite. Point taken. He's flailing around and the blood sport is gone. :cheers:
PyramidHead
Active member
go ahead, build it, it's not like they are building it on ground zero to rile people up. there's a large muslim community not too far from there. they lost people in the 9/11 attacks, too
in other words, quit freaking out and hating all muslims for the actions of a few.
in other words, quit freaking out and hating all muslims for the actions of a few.
Nothing like the light of common sense to reveal the empty neon glitz of the intelligent elite.
This is the trouble with those like TH who are captivated by the "experts" and rose colored political correctness. They do not hear the donkey. The experts are too loud and too impressive.
Instead of Simone, I'll refer to the always wise and highly esteemed Mulla Nasreddin to clarify the point.
Who do you believe," the Mulla replied indignantly. "The donkey or your Mulla?"
The educated elite like TH believe the Mulla and the people of common sense hear the donkey and recognize the Sharia cultural center for what it is.
Instead of Simone, I'll refer to the always wise and highly esteemed Mulla Nasreddin to clarify the point.
Who do you believe," the Mulla replied indignantly. "The donkey or your Mulla?"
The educated elite like TH believe the Mulla and the people of common sense hear the donkey and recognize the Sharia cultural center for what it is.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Watch the video:
www. bigpeace.com/stzu/2010/09/02/cbn-islamization-of-paris-a-warning-to-the-west/
www. bigpeace.com/stzu/2010/09/02/cbn-islamization-of-paris-a-warning-to-the-west/
I posted something something similar. Not a pleasant perspective.
It is politically correct now to rave about diversity. But is cultural assimilation necessarily a good thing when people assert that the American flag is offensive to cultural diversity?
That is IMO what is not understood. Cultural assimilation does not by definition further what the American flag represents. Rather it often means the essential transformation of America into something similar to what people escaped from in order to come to America.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
I don't think today that cultural assimilation means what it did a century ago.
There seems to be no valid counterargument, by proponents of the mosque, to this argument.
Muslims have a right to build a Mosque, at the site proposed.
Not all Muslims are terrorists.
These Muslims are representing the peaceful, decent, and the extended hand of friendship, Muslims.
These Muslims have been informed that the vast majority of victims families and surviving wounded, are hurt and offended, by the idea of the Mosque, being that close to ground zero.
Around 70% of Americans are opposed to the location.
These Muslims have been offered generous help and support, to find another location, and refused.
Therefore the claim, of these Muslims, of being compassionate and trying to reach out to others, has been ineffective and counterproductive.
Conclusions: Either these Muslims are not as they claim to be, or they are just like the vast majority of us humans, in similar predicaments, simply stubborn-stupid.
There "are" very many peaceable and compassionate Muslims in America and they are the ones who are "not" building mosques near ground zero and do "not" want a Mosque built there.
I wholeheartedly agree with those who feel that our property rights and our religious freedoms are an issue here. They are simply not as big an issue as compared to being willing to forfeit them, for the greater issue of human compassion and decency. As I have stated, if the situation was reversed, and this were a proposed Christian Church near the site of a Christian terrorist atrocity, I would be similarly opposed.
If one wishes to stand up for freedom of Religion in America, there are scores of Christian Churches, prayer groups and individuals, being denied their rights 'today,' throughout this country, and none of them is near a site of Christian terrorist activity.
Also there are millions of individuals and businesses being denied permits, or having costs escalated, and designs severely curtailed, by the local building departments and commissions. These people are of all faiths and all colors.
There are plenty of more worthwhile and numerous fights to be fought, than a liberal politically correct Mosque, near ground zero, that has been put on relative fast track by the mayor and local officials.
Muslims have a right to build a Mosque, at the site proposed.
Not all Muslims are terrorists.
These Muslims are representing the peaceful, decent, and the extended hand of friendship, Muslims.
These Muslims have been informed that the vast majority of victims families and surviving wounded, are hurt and offended, by the idea of the Mosque, being that close to ground zero.
Around 70% of Americans are opposed to the location.
These Muslims have been offered generous help and support, to find another location, and refused.
Therefore the claim, of these Muslims, of being compassionate and trying to reach out to others, has been ineffective and counterproductive.
Conclusions: Either these Muslims are not as they claim to be, or they are just like the vast majority of us humans, in similar predicaments, simply stubborn-stupid.
There "are" very many peaceable and compassionate Muslims in America and they are the ones who are "not" building mosques near ground zero and do "not" want a Mosque built there.
I wholeheartedly agree with those who feel that our property rights and our religious freedoms are an issue here. They are simply not as big an issue as compared to being willing to forfeit them, for the greater issue of human compassion and decency. As I have stated, if the situation was reversed, and this were a proposed Christian Church near the site of a Christian terrorist atrocity, I would be similarly opposed.
If one wishes to stand up for freedom of Religion in America, there are scores of Christian Churches, prayer groups and individuals, being denied their rights 'today,' throughout this country, and none of them is near a site of Christian terrorist activity.
Also there are millions of individuals and businesses being denied permits, or having costs escalated, and designs severely curtailed, by the local building departments and commissions. These people are of all faiths and all colors.
There are plenty of more worthwhile and numerous fights to be fought, than a liberal politically correct Mosque, near ground zero, that has been put on relative fast track by the mayor and local officials.
A fine post Todah. You seem to be one of the minority here willing to think reasonably and without an attachment to an agenda.
Well written and very true. The elite refuse to recognize individuals and insist on believing all are the same as part of a group.
I don't think they are stupid but rather very shrewd and capable of taking advantage of our stupidity for the sake of their agenda
Why for example would the property sell for 4.8 million when 18 million was offered for it?
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/mosque_was_steal_FpzwdRCdb5MdehzkDDWY3H
New York developer Kevin Glodek was livid when he found out the building sold for a fraction of what he offered in 2007 -- $18 million cash -- and wondered whether money changed hands under the table, according to sources close to the deal.
Money under the table for an Interfaith cultural center and all the associated purity of intent? Impossible! Heh, heh, heh, foolish child.
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=21817
Egyptian-born businessman Hisham Elzanaty, reportedly one of the largest financial contributors to the Ground Zero mosque project on the ruins of New York's World Trade Center, was revealed at the weekend to have past ties to Palestinian terror group Hamas.
According to Fox News, in 1999, Elzanaty donated more than $6,000 to the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF).
Two years later, a federal court shut down the HLF and designated it as a terror-supporting entity. In 2008, five former HLF officials were indicted for actively aiding Hamas terrorist activity against Israel.
Are the developers really as pure as the driven snow? If not, does ground zero have to be contaminated with such sleazy politics? It's time to take off the rose colored glasses and see it for what it really is. Then decide if you think it's right that those suffering the direct results of 911 must be inflicted with this Sharia cultural center.
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As I said there seems to be no valid counterargument. It has taken over 630 responses, but your side of the argument has resorted to smilies and "these people" Todah, Nick A et.al. are just not worth our time, defeatist attitudes.
As I stated in my last post, my argument against the mosque, has not been validly refuted, in this case, a smilie just won't do!
MrRadish
New member
I wasn't trying to address your post - TH and co are doing a perfectly good job of that - I was noting the stark staring irony in Nick's saying that you don't have an attachment to an agenda when you openly use terms like 'liberal politically correct mosque'.
I'm not saying you shouldn't have an agenda, but Nick's denial that you do is just ridiculous.
WizardofOz
New member
Imam: NYC Islamic center to include other faiths
Imam: NYC Islamic center to include other faiths
source
Do you agree that building the mosque will "undermine the ability of anti-American radicals to recruit young, impressionable Muslims by falsely claiming that America persecutes Muslims for their faith"?
Or should they do that two blocks further away?
Imam: NYC Islamic center to include other faiths
| A proposed Islamic community center near ground zero will include separate prayer spaces for Muslims, Christians, Jews and people of other faiths, the imam behind plans for the facility wrote in a newspaper editorial published online Tuesday. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf wrote in The New York Times that the attention surrounding the plans for the $100 million community center just blocks from the site of the Sept. 11 attacks "reflects the degree to which people care about the very American values under debate: recognition of the rights of others, tolerance and freedom of worship." He said it was critical that Americans "not back away" from completing the project. "The wonderful outpouring of support for our right to build this community center from across the social, religious and political spectrum seriously undermines the ability of anti-American radicals to recruit young, impressionable Muslims by falsely claiming that America persecutes Muslims for their faith," he wrote. "These efforts by radicals at distortion endanger our national security and the personal security of Americans worldwide." |
source
Do you agree that building the mosque will "undermine the ability of anti-American radicals to recruit young, impressionable Muslims by falsely claiming that America persecutes Muslims for their faith"?
Or should they do that two blocks further away?
I think that is absolutely brilliant propaganda. He has placed all critics of the mosque cultural center, as being perceived as less magnanimous, and less peaceful, and less cooperative than him.
I applaud his wording and the time and effort it took to come up with it. It is nearly impeccable.
Now all he has to do is move the mosque another eight blocks or so, with the generous outpouring of support from nearly all of the Americans and the victims, and then his wording will be "perfect," and he will truly prove to us, who have nothing to prove, that every word he wrote is sincere. It is up to him, to prove his benevolence and not "us", so to speak, to prove anything.
WizardofOz
New member
Why not 10? Why not 2? :think:
I do not think that building the mosque there, will make the recruiting of young Muslims more difficult. If a person could be so easily swayed by the argument that..... see Americans don't hate all Muslims, they let us build our Mosque near ground zero..........
They could just as easily be swayed by this argument........ Americans are so devious and hateful of Muslims that they let us build a mosque near ground zero, to make us think they are our friends. Meanwhile the great Satan continues to corrupt the world with its immorality and its support of the state of Israel.........
To totally abandon Israel, and become a less pornographic nation is what Muslims want to see from America, not whether they support the building of a Mosque-CC, when there are already hundreds of Mosques,throughout the nation.
If they could buy and own the land, Why not right on Ground zero? Because even almost all liberal supporters of the freedom of religion, and their perceived need to prove,that not all Americans hate nor consider all Muslims terrorists, would find that offensive, or at least inappropriate.
Others who find "it" offensive also consider one or two blocks, less offensive, but still offensive none the less. I think that since there is already a mosque four blocks away, I am assuming that would be the least distance, that "most," would find acceptable. if the Imam decided to compromise at all, he would find that his willingness to move at least two blocks, would probably satisfy, and get the job done.
I am guessing he will try to win the propaganda war, and if he loses it, he wouldn't move two block, even if the taxpayers funded the entire project for him. That's my reading of this particular Imam. IMHO
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