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#1 Case of Child Molestation
#1 Case of Child Molestation
At about 14:30 into show #188, Brian Rohrbough launched an attack on Calvinists who believe that God is omniscient and created every molecule in the universe knowing the complete detailed end of history from the beginning. The common attack by "open theists" is that God would be a peep-show pervert if He knew what child molesters were doing, and knew in detail what they would do before they did it. Calvinsts "must worship Klebold and Harris" [17:04], and must believe that K&H "are fulfilling God's will just as much as a Calvinist Sunday School teacher." [17:15]
This kind of talk is slanderous and possibly blasphemous.
It was God's "will" for Judas to betray Christ (Luke 22:22), but Judas violated God's will by betraying Christ. That sentence shows that the phrase "God's will" can be used in two different senses: what God predestined and what God commanded men to do.
God by His command prohibits child molestation, but in His Sovereignty it comes to pass.
It was God's "good pleasure" to have His Son tortured and executed. And Christ might well have said, "I serve at the pleasure of the King." But to say that God was somehow tittilated, tantalized, teased, thrilled, or tickled by the torture and execution of His Son is either perverse or ignorant of the older usage of the word "pleasure."
The oldest uses can be found in the Unabridged Oxford Dictionary at definitions 5b and 5c.
Thomas More, who was executed for refusing to honor King Henry VIII's claim to be the supreme head of the Church of England, spoke back in 1535 of being interrogated at "the King's pleasure" The king was ticked off, not tickled.
The King James Version (1611) has the following:
Ezra 5:17
Now therefore, if it seem good to the king, let there be search made in the king's treasure house, which is there at Babylon, whether it be so, that a decree was made of Cyrus the king to build this house of God at Jerusalem, and let the king send his pleasure to us concerning this matter.
Ezra 10:11
Now therefore make confession unto the LORD God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives.
Nehemiah 9:37
And it yieldeth much increase unto the kings whom thou hast set over us because of our sins: also they have dominion over our bodies, and over our cattle, at their pleasure, and we are in great distress.
Psalm 51:18
Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
Psalm 103:21
Bless ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.
Psalm 105:22
To bind his princes at his pleasure; and teach his senators wisdom.
Isaiah 44:28
That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.
Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isaiah 48:14
All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
Acts 24:27
But after two years Porcius Festus came into Felix' room: and Felix, willing to shew the Jews a pleasure, left Paul bound.
Acts 25:9
But Festus, willing to do the Jews a pleasure, answered Paul, and said, Wilt thou go up to Jerusalem, and there be judged of these things before me?
Ephesians 1:5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Ephesians 1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
The Calvinist Westminster Confession of Faith picks up on this concept:
CHAPTER III.
Of God's Eternal Decree.
V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of his free grace and love alone, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto; and all to the praise of his glorious grace.
CHAPTER V.
Of Providence.
III. God, in his ordinary providence, maketh use of means, yet is free to work without, above, and against them, at his pleasure.
CHAPTER XVI.
Of Good Works.
III. Their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ. And that they may be enabled thereunto, besides the graces they have already received, there is required an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit to work in them to will and to do of his good pleasure; yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent, as if they were not bound to perform any duty unless upon a special motion of the Spirit; but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them.
Larger Catechism
Question 19: What is God's providence towards the angels?
Answer: God by his providence permitted some of the angels, wilfully and irrecoverably, to fall into sin and damnation, limiting and ordering that, and all their sins, to his own glory; and established the rest in holiness and happiness; employing them all, at his pleasure, in the administrations of his power, mercy, and justice.
We still have the phrase in modern statecraft, and even on TV for those of you who watched "West Wing." Colin Powell said, "I serve at the pleasure of the President." Is Bush titillated when those who "serve at his pleasure" kill Iraqi peasants?
To speak of serving at the "pleasure" of a sovereign speaks of the power of the sovereign, but not necessarily something enjoyable to the Sovereign.
I must confess to being disgusted at frequently-heard allegations and innuendoes by "open theists" that Calvinists believe that God receives [sexual?] pleasure knowing that children are being molested and child pornography being produced.
Roman centurions were barbarians and pagans. Their process of crucifixion was the most inhumane, sadistic process of execution ever invented. It was proceeded by torture. I never saw Mel Gibson's "Passion of Christ," but I heard it called in some reviews "homo-erotic." From what I've read, Romans who tortured people were sexual psychopaths. You have to be a great deal twisted to accept a government job torturing people, but when you're hired by a homosexual empire like ancient Rome that revels in sexual perversions, the implications are staggering. Whatever Mel put on screen was probably Walt Disney level compared to Roman reality.
And yet, the Bible says, "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur." (Acts 4:13-28 NASV).
"This Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death." (Acts 2:23 NASV)
"But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled." (Acts 3:18 NASV)
God used sado-masochists to shed the blood of His only Son, and it was planned in detail before the world was even created (1 Peter 1:10,18-20; Luke 9:22; Rev. 13:8; Luke 24:26). Our heavenly Father knew in advance every blood vessel of His Son that would be ripped open by Roman psychopaths. The Father caused the Son to suffer unspeakably.
Everything was recorded in the Bible: a kind of "child pornography?"
Do Open Theists see the "snuff" murder of the only-begotten Son of God as the worst example of child molestation in history? Or an act of love by a Sovereign Predestinating God?
Isaiah 53:10
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
#1 Case of Child Molestation
At about 14:30 into show #188, Brian Rohrbough launched an attack on Calvinists who believe that God is omniscient and created every molecule in the universe knowing the complete detailed end of history from the beginning. The common attack by "open theists" is that God would be a peep-show pervert if He knew what child molesters were doing, and knew in detail what they would do before they did it. Calvinsts "must worship Klebold and Harris" [17:04], and must believe that K&H "are fulfilling God's will just as much as a Calvinist Sunday School teacher." [17:15]
This kind of talk is slanderous and possibly blasphemous.
It was God's "will" for Judas to betray Christ (Luke 22:22), but Judas violated God's will by betraying Christ. That sentence shows that the phrase "God's will" can be used in two different senses: what God predestined and what God commanded men to do.
God by His command prohibits child molestation, but in His Sovereignty it comes to pass.
It was God's "good pleasure" to have His Son tortured and executed. And Christ might well have said, "I serve at the pleasure of the King." But to say that God was somehow tittilated, tantalized, teased, thrilled, or tickled by the torture and execution of His Son is either perverse or ignorant of the older usage of the word "pleasure."
The oldest uses can be found in the Unabridged Oxford Dictionary at definitions 5b and 5c.
Thomas More, who was executed for refusing to honor King Henry VIII's claim to be the supreme head of the Church of England, spoke back in 1535 of being interrogated at "the King's pleasure" The king was ticked off, not tickled.
The King James Version (1611) has the following:
Ezra 5:17
Now therefore, if it seem good to the king, let there be search made in the king's treasure house, which is there at Babylon, whether it be so, that a decree was made of Cyrus the king to build this house of God at Jerusalem, and let the king send his pleasure to us concerning this matter.
Ezra 10:11
Now therefore make confession unto the LORD God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives.
Nehemiah 9:37
And it yieldeth much increase unto the kings whom thou hast set over us because of our sins: also they have dominion over our bodies, and over our cattle, at their pleasure, and we are in great distress.
Psalm 51:18
Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
Psalm 103:21
Bless ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.
Psalm 105:22
To bind his princes at his pleasure; and teach his senators wisdom.
Isaiah 44:28
That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.
Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isaiah 48:14
All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
Acts 24:27
But after two years Porcius Festus came into Felix' room: and Felix, willing to shew the Jews a pleasure, left Paul bound.
Acts 25:9
But Festus, willing to do the Jews a pleasure, answered Paul, and said, Wilt thou go up to Jerusalem, and there be judged of these things before me?
Ephesians 1:5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Ephesians 1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
The Calvinist Westminster Confession of Faith picks up on this concept:
CHAPTER III.
Of God's Eternal Decree.
V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of his free grace and love alone, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto; and all to the praise of his glorious grace.
CHAPTER V.
Of Providence.
III. God, in his ordinary providence, maketh use of means, yet is free to work without, above, and against them, at his pleasure.
CHAPTER XVI.
Of Good Works.
III. Their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ. And that they may be enabled thereunto, besides the graces they have already received, there is required an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit to work in them to will and to do of his good pleasure; yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent, as if they were not bound to perform any duty unless upon a special motion of the Spirit; but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them.
Larger Catechism
Question 19: What is God's providence towards the angels?
Answer: God by his providence permitted some of the angels, wilfully and irrecoverably, to fall into sin and damnation, limiting and ordering that, and all their sins, to his own glory; and established the rest in holiness and happiness; employing them all, at his pleasure, in the administrations of his power, mercy, and justice.
We still have the phrase in modern statecraft, and even on TV for those of you who watched "West Wing." Colin Powell said, "I serve at the pleasure of the President." Is Bush titillated when those who "serve at his pleasure" kill Iraqi peasants?
To speak of serving at the "pleasure" of a sovereign speaks of the power of the sovereign, but not necessarily something enjoyable to the Sovereign.
I must confess to being disgusted at frequently-heard allegations and innuendoes by "open theists" that Calvinists believe that God receives [sexual?] pleasure knowing that children are being molested and child pornography being produced.
Roman centurions were barbarians and pagans. Their process of crucifixion was the most inhumane, sadistic process of execution ever invented. It was proceeded by torture. I never saw Mel Gibson's "Passion of Christ," but I heard it called in some reviews "homo-erotic." From what I've read, Romans who tortured people were sexual psychopaths. You have to be a great deal twisted to accept a government job torturing people, but when you're hired by a homosexual empire like ancient Rome that revels in sexual perversions, the implications are staggering. Whatever Mel put on screen was probably Walt Disney level compared to Roman reality.
And yet, the Bible says, "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur." (Acts 4:13-28 NASV).
"This Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death." (Acts 2:23 NASV)
"But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled." (Acts 3:18 NASV)
God used sado-masochists to shed the blood of His only Son, and it was planned in detail before the world was even created (1 Peter 1:10,18-20; Luke 9:22; Rev. 13:8; Luke 24:26). Our heavenly Father knew in advance every blood vessel of His Son that would be ripped open by Roman psychopaths. The Father caused the Son to suffer unspeakably.
Everything was recorded in the Bible: a kind of "child pornography?"
Do Open Theists see the "snuff" murder of the only-begotten Son of God as the worst example of child molestation in history? Or an act of love by a Sovereign Predestinating God?
Isaiah 53:10
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
