things are different now...for me

[jeremysdemo]

yes but certain animals where not considered "food" to those writers.

the issue being spoken of in those passages is about washing hands (additional kosher law outside of Torah), not what is or isn't food.

people were still considered unclean of they ate kosher food without washing their hands....

but eating things that were not considered food in the first place....that is a whole other thing that entered Roman Christianity who were the largest producers of pork at the time....

 

[IMJerusha]

yes but certain animals where not considered "food" to those writers.

the issue being spoken of in those passages is about washing hands (additional kosher law outside of Torah), not what is or isn't food.

people were still considered unclean of they ate kosher food without washing their hands....

but eating things that were not considered food in the first place....that is a whole other thing that entered Roman Christianity who were the largest producers of pork at the time....

Roman Christianity aside, and not the least to blame for producing pork or profiting from it, "what goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them." Why do you want to beat up/cast aspersions on first century Christians in Rome?

 

[jeremysdemo]

Roman Christianity aside, and not the least to blame for producing pork or profiting from it, "what goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them." Why do you want to beat up/cast aspersions on first century Christians in Rome?

it's nothing against the Romans or Christians, it's just how the sayings entered the traditions (thus declaring all foods clean) was not in the earlier traditions.

When Jesus said "what goes into someones mouth" it was a direct answer to the Pharisees charge over the disciples not washing hands before eating (a Jewish, but not Torah tradition) so Jesus said the "dirt" or whatver was on their hands without washing did not defile them, as they thought.

If he hadn't resurrected he would roll over in his grave at the thought that anyone would take his words to mean things Torah says are not food for man now are, any Jew of the time would.

 

[clefty]

Mark 7:19



I have no problem with people keeping kosher. If they feel they are led to, there is blessing in it for them.



This is true.

ok thanks...but I think a law as old as Noah would be "destroyed" by more than a jot or tittle with this...please reconsider

 

[clefty]

it's nothing against the Romans or Christians, it's just how the sayings entered the traditions (thus declaring all foods clean) was not in the earlier traditions.

When Jesus said "what goes into someones mouth" it was a direct answer to the Pharisees charge over the disciples not washing hands before eating (a Jewish, but not Torah tradition) so Jesus said the "dirt" or whatver was on their hands without washing did not defile them, as they thought.

If he hadn't resurrected he would roll over in his grave at the thought that anyone would take his words to mean things Torah says are not food for man now are, any Jew of the time would.

I enjoy bible hub as it gives varies versions and commentaries...

NIV "For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)"

I think it humorous that apparently when meats were first deemed unclean food must have gone into the heart/mind making it unclean

but its all clean now that it enters the stomach...

which begs the question, food offered to idols goes where?...

Peter also kept kosher and yet his vision is used by some as a basis for the law being undone...

I would think if being able to eat bacon were finally allowed it would get bigger mention...

 

[IMJerusha]

ok thanks...but I think a law as old as Noah would be "destroyed" by more than a jot or tittle with this...please reconsider

Reconsider what? Keeping Kosher is not a salvific matter and I am not pressed to by the Ruach.
Read carefully what Michael Bugg wrote:
"Rather, I believe that it is good to keep physical kosher if we have the luxury to, only for the reason of being like our Savior even in what we choose to eat. There is a blessing that comes from obeying God even in the things that we don’t understand; I kept kosher for over a year before the reason for it, explained above, was given to me."-- Michael Bugg

 

[clefty]

Reconsider what?

I meant using that text as evidence...I don't think Yahusha would have made the change...

Keeping Kosher is not a salvific matter and I am not pressed to by the Ruach.

ok

Read carefully what Michael Bugg wrote:
"Rather, I believe that it is good to keep physical kosher if we have the luxury to, only for the reason of being like our Savior even in what we choose to eat. There is a blessing that comes from obeying God even in the things that we don’t understand; I kept kosher for over a year before the reason for it, explained above, was given to me."-- Michael Bugg

there is a blessing indeed...

 

[IMJerusha]

it's nothing against the Romans or Christians, it's just how the sayings entered the traditions (thus declaring all foods clean) was not in the earlier traditions.

I'm not interested in the traditions. I am, however, trusting that God is able to control His Word. Send your comments to David Stern. While I don't typically defer to the CJB, I'm sure he'll be interested to learn that he is not following the traditions.

 

[IMJerusha]

Peter also kept kosher and yet his vision is used by some as a basis for the law being undone...

For the simple fact that Yeshua would not have told Peter to kill and eat Gentiles. :chuckle:

 

[clefty]

For the simple fact that Yeshua would not have told Peter to kill and eat Gentiles. :chuckle:

lol...especially unwashed

but seriously...is that the only verse you use? Mark 7:19

oh well...sigh

so how about them usury prohibition and debt forgiveness laws...?

could you imagine if those were still binding and enforced?

....

 

[jeremysdemo]

I'm not interested in the traditions. I am, however, trusting that God is able to control His Word. Send your comments to David Stern. While I don't typically defer to the CJB, I'm sure he'll be interested to learn that he is not following the traditions.

I'm talking about earlier traditions of the gospels, just read any footnote *not found in earlier traditions* and yes God did preserve them otherwise I would not know about the simple fact, He guides His sheep and teaches them all things just like He promises His disciples John 14:26, praise Ya and Amen.

I'm not real familiar with who David is or the relevance to the current topic, as far as sending my comments to Him, you are welcome to do so, but it's better if he desires himself to know God's word rather than someone else trying to spoon feed him something he might not be ready to stomach, no pun intended.

 

[jeremysdemo]

I enjoy bible hub as it gives varies versions and commentaries...

NIV "For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)"

I think it humorous that apparently when meats were first deemed unclean food must have gone into the heart/mind making it unclean

but its all clean now that it enters the stomach...

which begs the question, food offered to idols goes where?...

Peter also kept kosher and yet his vision is used by some as a basis for the law being undone...

I would think if being able to eat bacon were finally allowed it would get bigger mention...

I don't look at it as "what is allowed" I look at it as "what is food", I wouldn't eat a car tire, tho I'm sure with the right seasonings and method it could be tasty! lol

you see the law is not only about prohibition as many people view it, it is about what is good, not so much what we should not.

there are only two verses in Leviticus 11 that detail what is good for food Leviticus 11:3,9, the whole rest of the chapter is reserved for what is not food.

this is often mans folly, instead of concentrating on what God said is good for food they concentrate their attention on everything else, they go down the "forbidden" rabbit trail so to speak, thus is the nature of temptation, we focus on that which is forbidden rather than that which is good.

I think you guys touched on that a bit with the blessing.

look at John the Immerser, he did not concern himself with all the swarming things not good for food, he led by example eating locus.

 

[jeremysdemo]

look at Eve, look at Adam, living in a perfect paradise of a garden, the tree of Life, no death, immortal, what does the beast get them to focus on and talk about?

the forbidden fruit......:doh:

it truly is the oldest trick on the book...literally.

 

[jeremysdemo]

HEy Im,

while you are passing that memo onto David, make sure he knows (which he should have learned in seminary) that that particular addition is not in the older manuscripts.

it's possible he knew that, but included it anyway for the purpose of not leaving anything out from the catholic Christian tradition. (which is how these later text come to us). at least he kept in in parentheses like most other Bible translations do to let readers know.

 

[clefty]

I don't look at it as "what is allowed" I look at it as "what is food", I wouldn't eat a car tire, tho I'm sure with the right seasonings and method it could be tasty! lol

so THAT's why Michelin man and the Pillsbury dough boy look similar...

you see the law is not only about prohibition as many people view it, it is about what is good, not so much what we should not.

that is true...in fact jews call them the 10 sayings not the 10 commandments...

translators had the difficulty of taking an ancient language with only present past tense and making it future perfect imperative....

"you do not kill" (or something close to that) became " thou shalt not kill!"

reading it that way makes the 10 seem as if Yah was just focusing on the good and what we should do...

there are only two verses in Leviticus 11 that detail what is good for food Leviticus 11:3,9, the whole rest of the chapter is reserved for what is not food.

this is often mans folly, instead of concentrating on what God said is good for food they concentrate their attention on everything else, they go down the "forbidden" rabbit trail so to speak, thus is the nature of temptation, we focus on that which is forbidden rather than that which is good.

I think you guys touched on that a bit with the blessing.

look at John the Immerser, he did not concern himself with all the swarming things not good for food, he led by example eating locus.

the supreme irony is that we are to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" and yet the list of what not to do is longer than the list of what to do

and finally even Sabbath, a gift of rest, became detested and rejected

I like to see it as we are indeed no longer under law...but we stand on it as our foundation

 

[clefty]

look at Eve, look at Adam, living in a perfect paradise of a garden, the tree of Life, no death, immortal, what does the beast get them to focus on and talk about?

the forbidden fruit......:doh:

it truly is the oldest trick on the book...literally.

lol...nice...

I think its because we are created to be curious and to seek after knowledge and understanding...and that leaves us vulnerable to exploitation and distractions...

and guilt is addictive...a desire to do what's right and be better is merely realizing how far we have to go...that's where the beast exploits us...

it doesn't help that the beast knows scripture and even Yah leads us into temptation...

the mystery of free will

 

[jeremysdemo]

pillsbury doe boy...thanks for making my morning with that bit of humor.

 

[jeremysdemo]

the supreme irony is that we are to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" and yet the list of what not to do is longer than the list of what to do

and finally even Sabbath, a gift of rest, became detested and rejected

I like to see it as we are indeed no longer under law...but we stand on it as our foundation

Indeed, I don't practice a ritual or religious Sabbath, but after 6 straight days of hard labor my body/spirit/mind needs rest, it's seems an abuse to not do what comes naturally and just take a day to relax the thoughts off of worldly agendas and commune with God, enjoy the wonderful creation of earth he gave us, and praise/thank him for that. I can't go as far as saying I keep it "holy" but I certainly don't go out of my way to desecrate it, that would be too much like work IMHO.

 

[clefty]

Indeed, I don't practice a ritual or religious Sabbath, but after 6 straight days of hard labor my body/spirit/mind needs rest, it's seems an abuse to not do what comes naturally and just take a day to relax the thoughts off of worldly agendas and commune with God, enjoy the wonderful creation of earth he gave us, and praise/thank him for that. I can't go as far as saying I keep it "holy" but I certainly don't go out of my way to desecrate it, that would be too much like work IMHO.

from what I can tell you are more in line to what a Sabbath remembrance celebration is than any religion...it remains a worship in truth and spirit...

religion is but chaff to the spiritual kernel of wheat...it nurtures and protects to full maturation but then...

john the baptism prepared for the time when chaff is separated not from tares but from the wheat itself...

the entire ministry of Yahusha was to do away with the chaff of temple, blood sacrifices, and priests...

we are the temple, priests to the law, and asked to "sacrifice" but a Sabbath day(light) for a blessing indeed...

after all, we don't make Sabbath holy...it already is...

may it continue to be a blessing to you and yours

 

[jeremysdemo]

religion is but chaff to the spiritual kernel of wheat...it nurtures and protects to full maturation

indeed, all of this is in the writings of the ancients!