things are different now...for me

[The 5 solas]

Not when they are different words.

Paul said, "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23)

Spirit is pneuma.

Soul is psychē.

Body is sōma.

Now you are opening up an whole new area. Whether humans are a dichotomy or trichotomy. The Scriptures that speak towards us being a dichotomy far outweigh the few that hint at a trichotomy.

I can list them if anyone is interested...didn't want to just run off on a tangent but thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[jamie]

Now you are opening up an whole new area. Whether humans are a dichotomy or trichotomy. The Scriptures that speak towards us being a dichotomy far outweigh the few that hint at a trichotomy.

Dichotomy.

James said, "For as the body without the spirit is dead..."

A dead body has no psyche, the spirit returns to God and the body left untreated returns to dust. The dead person loses their mind.

A psyche requires a living person.

 

[The 5 solas]

Dichotomy.

James said, "For as the body without the spirit is dead..."

A dead body has no psyche, the spirit returns to God and the body left untreated returns to dust. The dead person loses their mind.

A psyche requires a living person.

I also believe we are dichotomous.
The scriptures use spirit and soul interchangeably.

 

[jamie]

I also believe we are dichotomous.
The scriptures use spirit and soul interchangeably.

Not really. Spirit is nonphysical, what is there to destroy?

Jesus said souls can be destroyed.

James said the separation of body and spirit is death. God through Ezekiel said the soul that sins it shall die, and so we do, one way or another.

 

[The 5 solas]

Not really. Spirit is nonphysical, what is there to destroy?

Jesus said souls can be destroyed.

James said the separation of body and spirit is death. God through Ezekiel said the soul that sins it shall die, and so we do, one way or another.

The spirit/soul is immortal. Man can destroy the body but not the soul. In Matt 10:28 where it says, "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell", that is referring to eternal damnation by God Himself. That does not mean it is annihilated. Think of it like this...when someone says, "That man's life was utterly destroyed. He lost his wife, his children, his house, his savings, everything." The man himself was not physically destroyed, but everything he had materially was. The souls in hell receive eternal punishment, so it will go on forever, which means the soul will keep on. However, that is how the word destroyed is used in this manner. The utter loss of every good thing....left to only to suffer for their sin.

There are only 2 verses that can be used to support the trichotomous view, they are 1 Thess 5:23 and Heb 4:12. Whereas, there are a multitude of verses which speak to the fact that humans are dichotomous, being material (flesh) and immaterial (soul/spirit).

Some verses to consider would be Matt 10:28, Luke 1:46,47, Eccl 12:7, Matt 27:50, Psa 42:6, Psa 51:17, Act 7:59.

These verses are used to show the terms are used interchangeably when looking at similar verses.
They show that at death the soul/spirit separates from the body.
That our soul/spirit is the immaterial part that makes us who we are and how we have special relationship with God Himself.

 

[jamie]

The souls in hell receive eternal punishment, so it will go on forever, which means the soul will keep on.

It would be agony to know people were suffering. I certainly don't want to see that. I don't even want an animal to suffer and I believe God feels the same way.

John records, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

The lake of fire is a metaphor for Gehenna where trash was burned and it symbolizes the second death. Now if people were burned after their first death what is the result of the second death?

Actually, there would be no point of the second resurrection if the people were already judged, but we know we have not yet judged unbelievers. Due process you know. A person is considered innocent until proven guilty. That's God's law.

 

[The 5 solas]

It would be agony to know people were suffering. I certainly don't want to see that. I don't even want an animal to suffer and I believe God feels the same way.

Your belief that the consciousness of someone else experiencing pain will lead us to experience perpetual agony is not Biblical. God experiences perfect joy and peace and yet He is and will be conscious of people suffering in hell forever. Rev 14:10,11 states: " he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

The lake of fire is a metaphor for Gehenna where trash was burned and it symbolizes the second death. Now if people were burned after their first death what is the result of the second death?

You are mixing up your metaphor. The garbage dump outside of Jerusalem is the metaphor for hell, not the other way around.
The first death is natural death, the second death is being cast into the lake of fire. Rev 21:8, "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” They are not *burned up* it is an eternal suffering.

Actually, there would be no point of the second resurrection if the people were already judged, but we know we have not yet judged unbelievers. Due process you know. A person is considered innocent until proven guilty. That's God's law.

No, the pronouncement has already been made. What the Bible says is that we have already all been declared guilty, Rom 3:23, " for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" but for those who are in Christ, that guilt has been lifted. Romans 8:1,2 "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death."

 

[jamie]

I'll try again, but let's keep it simple.

God judges no one, Jesus does not judge unbelievers and those who reject him, and at this time we have not yet judged unbelievers and those who reject Jesus.

The penalty for sin is death and once a person dies that penalty is paid. At the second resurrection they are innocent of sin and will have the Book of Life opened to them by means of salvation by grace the same as for us today. And then they will be judged according to their works the same as we are today.

Judgment is the purpose of the second resurrection.

At the coming of Christ many will be given an incoruptible body and immortality. Immortality is not something we currently have.

 

[The 5 solas]

I'll try again, but let's keep it simple.

God judges no one, Jesus does not judge unbelievers and those who reject him, and at this time we have not yet judged unbelievers and those who reject Jesus.

The penalty for sin is death and once a person dies that penalty is paid. At the second resurrection they are innocent of sin and will have the Book of Life opened to them by means of salvation by grace the same as for us today. And then they will be judged according to their works the same as we are today.

Judgment is the purpose of the second resurrection.

At the coming of Christ many will be given an incoruptible body and immortality. Immortality is not something we currently have.

I suggest that you use actual Scriptures when making statements like this. After all, the Bible is our source of faith and practice . You need to demonstrate your claims using the Word of God.

 

[jamie]

I suggest that you use actual Scriptures when making statements like this. After all, the Bible is our source of faith and practice . You need to demonstrate your claims using the Word of God.

Ok, I didn't think about you not being familiar with them.

"God judges no one, Jesus does not judge unbelievers and those who reject him, and at this time we have not yet judged unbelievers and those who reject Jesus."

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son. (John 5:22)​

And if any man hear my words and believe not, I judge him not for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me and receiveth not my words hath one that judgeth him, the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. (John 12:47-48)​

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? (1 Corinthians 6:2)​

 

[jamie]

I suggest that you use actual Scriptures when making statements like this.

"The penalty for sin is death and once a person dies that penalty is paid. At the second resurrection they are innocent of sin and will have the Book of Life opened to them by means of salvation by grace the same as for us today. And then they will be judged according to their works the same as we are today."

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)​

For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Romans 6:7)​

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God and the books were opened and another book was opened, which is the book of life and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books according to their works. (Revelation 20:12)​

"Judgment is the purpose of the second resurrection."

And I saw thrones and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads or in their hands and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4)​

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection, on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)​

"At the coming of Christ many will be given an incoruptible body and immortality. Immortality is not something we currently have."

Behold, I shew you a mystery, we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Corinthians 15:51-54)​