Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Eh, in your idea of a "just" society there'd be few adults left to even bear children.
:freak:
They Made Me Gay
- Thread starter patrick jane
- Start date
Eh, in your idea of a "just" society there'd be few adults left to even bear children.
:freak:
Lon
Well-known member
Yes, it bothers me. I 'think' they are seeing the damage to others, and to children (did you know one in tree homosexual homes report abuse in Canada?). Context can make sense where the blatant statement cannot. I am not for the death penalty, but I think in some cases, it may save lives: For instance, we had a lady in Gig Harbor WA that sent a rapist to prison. He threatened to kill her when he came out. He came out and raped and killed her and her daughter as he said he would when he got out. The death penalty would have prevented it, and it would definitely stop it from ever happening again. Though I'm against it, I see the need as a necessary evil at times. I'm not for the death penalty, but I think I understand it.
I stand with you against it, but I think we are partly to blame for such sentiment, when another is harmed because of our stance.
I just don't think we can have the dp without something of the necessary evil of death, with those monsters. I 'think' it says more about you and I, that we have no stomach for it, but I yet desire protection. I don't want to swing that picket sign, I simply don't have the stomach for it and think most of us don't. Some of these folks are ex-military. I try to walk that mile in their shoes, but I'm not really made of that stuff. I'm simply thankful for those who are, so I don't have to. The rest? They are expressing sentiment and are not out on the streets taking vengeance so it isn't quite as horrific. There is something about heart motivations, but again, I don't read those very well either. I simply try to see all sides and realize who I am in such discussions. I'd never vote for the death penalty, but for murderers, not man-slaughter per say. Some of these same would vote the death penalty for drunk drivers as well. I 'think' I ' understand the rejection of societal harmers as 'removing them' in a utilitarian manner. It is kind of like Logan's Run if we are going to start ejecting societal harm. I don't buy into that kind of thinking either. I'm against us harming one another in any shape or fashion and think we can learn grace and mercy from our Savior, especially to people who don't deserve grace or mercy. The "kill them all and let God sort them out" T-shirts, I think have been out of print for awhile, but such formed some U.S. opinion the past several decades. -Lon
marhig
Well-known member
Well I'm afraid this isn't a just society, it's the world and in this world, Satan is in the hearts of many. That is why when we are born of God, we are to come out from among them, turn away from this world and the things of it and turn from the lusts of our flesh. Once we belong to God, then the Spirit takes our hearts out of this world. But that shouldn't stop us having compassion for those who are still stuck in the darkness of it. Because it's only by the grace of God that we are blessed to know him. And because of that, and if he is truly in our hearts, then we should have compassion for those who don't know him and bring him to them with the hope that they will hear his word and believe, repent and turn from their sins.
Those things you listed are wrong to do before the living God, and you are right. They are an abomination, but to want to execute people isn't of God, our hearts shouldn't be like that, if we have it in our hearts to kill, then we are just as bad as they are. If we are to love those who hate us, then shouldn't we have compassion for those who have been through hell in their lives, who may never have heard of anything about God, and have turned to drugs etc. and try and help them, instead of wanting to execute them? Many get involved at very young ages, yes there may well be absolute idiots but not all are like that, many have had it hard, abused when young, homeless as teenagers. Execution just seems so harsh, how can you want to do that to people?
The best way to change the world is to bring God to others, in our lives and by his word and hope they will hear us and believe.
As i said the sins of this world are dealt with by the law, and God deals with the sins of the heart. Those of us who know God, should be trying to bring his love to as many as will hear, and i don't mean a sloppy love, but the love of God, where we will help and care and be there, and be straight and firm too when needed. But i don't think execution is the answer, as God tells us not to kill, and i believe we should obey him.
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WizardofOz
New member
I have a feeling a lot of Old Testament is about to be quoted.
exminister
Well-known member
I am not following. But if you want to be anecdotal. I as a Christian was a virgin also until my wedding night. I was heterosexual before (and after). I desired being with a woman. I find in me no desire to be with a man. I can only conclude I was born that way.
I know heterosexuals who have no control and take every opportunity to sleep with members of the opposite sex. True for men and women. Were they not born sinners? Were they not born heterosexual?
I think some are splitting hairs to make a special case for homosexuality. Romans 7 tells me different. This one sin it appears that some modern Christians want to mark as a choice while the Bible doesn't make that case. So how it is different than all other sins? Ick factor? Fear that it might be individually true? Want to believe there is no internal struggle like all other sins to resist?
Do you think all sins are simple choices? Born innocent and not born a sinner but become one by choice?
What was Paul talking about in Romans 7 then? Is he the only human born that way?
If you considered for just a moment that homosexuals were born that way what does it change?
Lon
Well-known member
Stealing a piece of candy is not as bad as murder. The all sin are sins isn't quite true. I think before God, yes, they all separate, but there are worse sins we can do to one another and we should gauge harm done. It will be easier for Sodom and Gomorrah, than for those of greater sins, the Lord tells us...
It is not about whether they are born gay or not.
Christians have no excuse to judge the world.
They have responsibility to spread God's kingdom.
Jesus says let the dead bury their own dead.
The world will take care of their own problem.
Gay problem is political; Jesus also say His followers are not of the world.
There are many more world's problem that Christians deeply get invoked with which should not be.
God will judge the world, not His followers.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Leviticus 20:10
that's incredibly retarded, even for you
Spoiler
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
what He did was He commanded her to "go and sin no more"
did the woman taken in adultery deny her sin or demand that society accept it as "normal"?
are homos heeding Christ's command by denying that their behavior is sinful and insisting that society accept them as "normal"?
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ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
and yet, here you are on the internet :think:
marhig
Well-known member
Not all in one go, but i do read both old and new testaments. But Jesus came with love and he didn't tell us to kill, in fact he said we shouldn't even be angry without a cause.
Matthew 5
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:
And I've said the judges of the world will judge with the laws of the world. But those born of God shouldn't be looking at things like putting others to death. We should be more interested in bringing Gods word and love to others with the hope of helping them to know him.
Was that before or after he scattered her accusers? Before or after the told her, "Neither do I condemn you"?
No one can demand you see sin as acceptable.
What does this passage mean, and break down the part bolded:
Romans 13:3For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval. 4 For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not carry the sword in vain. He is God’s servant, an agent of retribution to the wrongdoer.
exminister
Well-known member
It wouldnt, we all have sin natures due to the fall of mankind and sin in the world. Somes nature is to lie, some to steal, some to murder, some given to adultery, etc.
Alcoholism can be inherited, so does that make it ok to be a drunk?
Do you think God is wrong about what He defines as sin, if you believe someone is born that way?
marhig
Well-known member
Did you read the verses before that?
Romans 13 1-2 KJV
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation
Then what you've quoted
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
These verses are talking about those who are strong in God speaking the word with power, and those who resist the power of God and don't listen to them. I'm talking about people who have never known God and never heard his word! Should those who have never known God, and could have had horrific lives be executed for what they do wrong? Really think about that, some of these people will have had horrific lives, some of them being very young and going through much pain, and never knowing or hearing about God, and many will be following the wrong example of their parents.
That's why it's so important to bring Gods love and word to others when we can. With the hope that they will listen and believe and turn from sin.
I've already said, i don't mean a sloppy happy clappy love, sometimes Gods love is a tough love and i know that. But he should be the only one taking life. We are not to kill, but to bring his life and love to others and let Christ in us do his work with the hope of him reconciling as many back to God as possible. Even those who some of you would see executed!
People seem to forget, it was these kind of people that Jesus came to save, he said, "they that are whole need not a physician, but they that are sick, i came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." He was out among prostitute's, adulteresses, fraudsters, publicans, sinners, people filled with devil's, and all those who others would have looked down on. And these are the people who welcomed him more than his own!
And remember Paul, he persecuted Gods people, yet he became one of the strongest apostles and the thief was saved in his final hours.
So there's hope for everyone, execution isn't the way, Christ is. And bringing his love and life to all those in society who others despise!
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
upon what basis would He have condemned her?
town said:
sez the guy who argues for societal acceptance of gay "marriage" :nono:
You think he wasn't certain of her transgression? I'm not playing word games with you over scripture.
No, I haven't.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
no, and she didn't deny it
again, on what basis would He have condemned her?
town said:
:darwinsm:
good one! :first:
btw - i started a thread if you'd care to participate - it has your name on it and everything :banana:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?124369-A-Call-Out-Thread-For-Town-Heretic