They Made Me Gay

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Hanging around left-handed people won't make you a southpaw .

actually, it might - if you find yourself working in a workplace in which all your co-workers are lefties, and all the workstations are laid out for left handed use, you may well find yourself developing left-handed dexterity you never knew you had

Hanging around tall people won't make you tall .

well, no - as it turns out the people with whom I hung around most in my youth were my parents, my sisters, my cousins - and all of them were tall

guess how I turned out?


Hanging around blue-eyed people won't make you blue-eyed .

again, those i hung around with in my youth were all family, who have blue eyes

so do i :)


Hanging around gay people won't make you gay .

i can't speak to this one with personal experience, as I try to avoid perverts :idunno:
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
So, being around an adulterer makes you one?

define "being around"

standing next to one, unaware that they are, in fact, an adulterer, at a bus stop?

or living in a culture that celebrates sexual perversity and being fed the lie, continually, that sexual experimentation (including adultery) is OK?
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
My first response was eaten by faulty hardware. I only have enough time to attempt to re-cobble a few.
For me, this is really the only thing that needed response. The rest is simply my 'thoughts.' Some of them, I've worked on over a long period, so would appreciate feedback from a sounding board approach, but it has nothing much to do with the thread. It is rather about my current view of what I think is SCOTUS out of balance and harming our country. I'd appreciate a read, and any feedback, as I value you perspective as different than my own. I don't think I'd respond to any of that, but really just want to ensure I have my ideas and thoughts reflected back to me. No need, just a service, if you have time:
Thanks, Lon. I don't believe the role of the Court is to be balanced in a political, philosophical sense and I see harm as inherently subjective term that relates back. For instance, one man may see harm in broadening the ability to municipalities to utilize eminent domain and the next fellow feel it a necessary empowerment to act in the broader interests of society. One may see the recognition of homosexual rights relating to discrimination as a sign of damage and moral decay and another as an expression of the necessity of law that protects every right, not merely the ones that make us comfortable. So it's a hard word to work into a discussion unless we're speaking to empirically measurable harm.

Spoiler

Whoever the two consenting adults, both of their parents are touched by the inevitable early death, the shame (and I'm meaning societal, if not spiritual, emotional, but those too) of it. They lobbied for this, but all of them know they are harming their extended families. Because of that, as representatives and only empowered as much as they serve the needs of all the people, the law has harmed society. There is no question.
There is almost always a question. The rest is argument and foundation. Conversion to Christianity will doubtless work emotional harm to Muslim families and vice versa. Should the law erect a barrier to it? As a Christian you could argue that allowing any other expression of faith is encouraging an ongoing harm to those outside of the faith. There's really no end to that line of approach. In our compact we recognize the necessity of individual responsibility and their right to consequence.

The law needs to be changed away from full and impartial acceptance. We never 'legalized' adultery for example.
But then adultery is a breach of contract between two parties joined by the seal of the state, whatever else enters into it beyond the state's empowerment.

The law just rightly left it alone. They should have done the same, despite lobbying and lawsuits. Sadly, the SCOTUS didn't care to listen. They are operating without any balance and check.
No, as with any branch of government they can be checked, only it takes a strong willed Congress to manage it. And that's the way it should be for any branch and power or we'd see our government spend most of its time squabbling between branches instead of between parties. :plain:

I would, that all SCOTUS rulings would necessarily have to pass through the House and Senate, just as the President's.
Then you're just extending the membership of the legislative. Though most branches have overlap, they each still hold vital and distinct jobs.

In a nutshell, imho, justice cannot be 'blind' less it hurts the whole, it is trying to serve.
The blindness of justice is to privilege and power. So the majority, or the rich cannot claim a better share of her attention or protection. The presumption of innocence, by way of example, is true for any man charged of a crime. That's to the good in principle, even if we all can't be happy with a particular manifestation.

Some things are just 'right' BUT because we disagree on which is 'right' justice will never be blind. We are responsible for holding up and defending what we know to be right. Right now in America, there is not much the average joe can do to affect or protest. We march by the millions at the Capitol - Nothing. The system imho, doesn't work any more. My paradigm: You CANNOT attack your base, without ruining your country. They rightly need the most consideration. The government as a whole, is dysfunctional, because they reject this paradigm. Imho, that is the political and economic reason we are in the state we are in. The only way to 'make America great again' is to foster the base of a country: Families. All this overt attention to minority views and needs is not all bad, but the pendulum has to swing back or there is going to be a revolution, and I honestly believe, SCOTUS is has a huge hand.
See I've never agreed with the "again" or the "take back" approach to government. I don't think we've had a generation where there wasn't some serious moral compromise or failing, along with important strides that would eventually deal death blows to them.

I'm saying that is the wrong take of separation and state. It 'used' to be illegal to commit adultery. It is still illegal to be polygamous.
And it was for a very long time perfectly legal to own people, and to deny women the right to own land or minorities to vote. The separation of church and state is to protect us in our expression of faith and to protect us from the sort of dangerous nonsense that happened in Europe when a majority of Christians exercised power over minorities of Christians (and others) to hammer the law into their own particular dogmatic shape.

I believe you believe this. I 'think' some of your education has harmed you and must be eschewed.
In order, good, because we have to credit one another with our own minds or we might as well be blogging...and I don't believe a solid education ever harms the possessor, because it creates a methodology of approach to ideas that is rooted first in reason and by that light examines popular sentiment and subjective feeling.

No, it is the same reason it is illegal to harm a child, at least as far as parents are concerned. Kids cannot get married until they are 18 or older. If enough kids lobbied and marched for 10 years, they could get it lowered, simply because justice is (or isn't), blind. As I see it, because of the way SCOTUS operates, such would inevitably happen, despite parent's protest. Why? Because 'they aren't loud enough.' Such, isn't justice imho.
Actually kids could lobby until their legs were weary and the legislature could then respond if it felt obligated, but I believe the Court would strike an attempt given the understanding relating to consent and capacity to contract.

All laws are supposed to serve all, not show favoritism.
And that's why slavery is gone and women and minorities can vote and live where they please, though it took some struggle to accomplish it.

I have never doubted your love for Christ, or for me, or for those who are in sin.[/qtuoe]
Likewise.

I have disagreed with you
Also likewise. ;)

and I 'think' some of your hang-on's are due to accepting legal paradigms THEN becoming a Christian.
I'd say, as regards my approach, that it isn't a matter of accepting legal paradigms, but is a recognition of the necessity and value in a system that won't give us a 30 Years War without a metaphysical fight, that protects the right of every man to remain the arbiter of his conscience and exercise, so far as those will not impede the next fellow's right to the same.

Politically, I agree things tend to go through cycles. I'm not sure where this one is headed, but there are Christians to be found in both parties and ideologies. There's even a Pro-Life group within the Democratic party.

A wonderful prayer. For all of us. I accept it as my own, even if to another
Thank you, kindly.
Thank you. In your service, and appreciating the same, very much. Your brother in Christ -Lon

Always a pleasure, Lon.
 
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Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
aka "Christians" :thumb:
Just as one may see a troll truncating a quote to go about his business instead of the productive sort of engagement that adults participate in. :plain:

The quote in full: One may see the recognition of homosexual rights relating to discrimination as a sign of damage and moral decay and another as an expression of the necessity of law that protects every right, not merely the ones that make us comfortable.

The second understanding doesn't preclude the first, but it approaches it within a different context. People who rail against that result are often like the Amish who disdain our military while reaping the benefit of the security it provides.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
One may see the recognition of homosexual rights relating to discrimination as a sign of damage and moral decay

those would be Christians :thumb:

the only rights homosexuals should have is the right to be executed

and another as an expression of the necessity of law that protects every right

and those would be disgusting pervert-enablers

like you! :)
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
those would be Christians :thumb:

the only rights homosexuals should have is the right to be executed

and those would be disgusting pervert-enablers

like you! :)
Thanks for once again demonstrating why no one over the age of four should take you seriously. :plain: Especially you.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
... the Amish who disdain our military while reaping the benefit of the security it provides.

what benefit of security do the Amish reap from our military? :freak:

or are you referring to the Amish in Syria?

maybe the Amish in South Korea or Japan?



town's pretending to have me on ignore at the moment, so anybody else is welcome to answer

or ridicule him :banana:

:mock:town
 

Lon

Well-known member
only those who have bought into the lie pushed upon them by the corrupt culture in which we live


as far as your first, above, I have been celibate since my marriage failed, but i don't consider myself "asexual", as I have no doubt about being attracted to certain female friends (and zero male friends)

perhaps "non-sexual" would be a better description

:think: of course, that would also describe the last several years of my marriage :chuckle:

I think 'a' means 'non' or not. :think: The main point being, and you embrace it: We don't 'have' to have sex. It isn't a 'right.' This is the difference between you and I and the homosexual movement. They would have you think it is about rights for partners. It isn't (and I know you know this). Only 1% of gays were 'married' after the law passed. They are clearly concerned about something else, and NOT their partners, to have lobbied so hard to have it passed. A4T is correct: A LOT of these things are not like the others, including legal mandates against us. They don't want equal rights, they want acceptance, further sexual freedoms, and deference. Some of my gay friends agree and are against promiscuity.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
I think 'a' means 'non' or not. :think: The main point being, and you embrace it: We don't 'have' to have sex. It isn't a 'right.' This is the difference between you and I and the homosexual movement. They would have you think it is about rights for partners. It isn't (and I know you know this). Only 1% of gays were 'married' after the law passed. They are clearly concerned about something else, and NOT their partners, to have lobbied so hard to have it passed. A4T is correct: A LOT of these things are not like the others, including legal mandates against us. They don't want equal rights, they want acceptance, further sexual freedoms, and deference. Some of my gay friends agree and are against promiscuity.

The trouble there is Lon, is that some of the more 'zealous persuasion' think that the only rights any of your gay friends have is to be executed if they act on any impulse.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
what benefit of security do the Amish reap from our military? :freak:

or are you referring to the Amish in Syria?

maybe the Amish in South Korea or Japan?



town's pretending to have me on ignore at the moment, so anybody else is welcome to answer

or ridicule him :banana:

:mock:town

And the tedious obsessive is back in regular flow...

:yawn:
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
I think 'a' means 'non' or not. :think: The main point being, and you embrace it: We don't 'have' to have sex. It isn't a 'right.' This is the difference between you and I and the homosexual movement. They would have you think it is about rights for partners. It isn't (and I know you know this). Only 1% of gays were 'married' after the law passed. They are clearly concerned about something else, and NOT their partners, to have lobbied so hard to have it passed. A4T is correct: A LOT of these things are not like the others, including legal mandates against us. They don't want equal rights, they want acceptance, further sexual freedoms, and deference. Some of my gay friends agree and are against promiscuity.

:thumb:
 
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Lon

Well-known member
The trouble there is Lon, is that some of the more 'zealous persuasion' think that the only rights any of your gay friends have is to be executed if they act on any impulse.
They think the same against adultery as well. We all have 'degrees' of unacceptability. I'd expect, you are for the death penalty for child rape? I'm not. I am very much against them being allowed in public again, however. They need ankle bracelets or something and need to be monitored the rest of their lives, if they are not incarcerated permanently. That's my degree of unacceptability. I'm not even for the death penalty at all, except for supporting another's right to an eye for an eye. It isn't my view, but I'm not wholly against the death penalty, just not for me. -Lon
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
They think the same against adultery as well. We all have 'degrees' of unacceptability. I'd expect, you are for the death penalty for child rape? I'm not. I am very much against them being allowed in public again, however. They need ankle bracelets or something and need to be monitored the rest of their lives, if they are not incarcerated permanently. That's my degree of unacceptability. I'm not even for the death penalty at all, except for supporting another's right to an eye for an eye. It isn't my view, but I'm not wholly against the death penalty, just not for me. -Lon

Are you gay friends celibate? Would they support the death penalty for adult homosexual acts? I'm against the death penalty in general, more so in regards to innocent lives lost than anything but that's kinda straying away from the point for now.
 
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