ECT They can't be the same

[john w]

I am not saying they had perfect understanding of dbr of The Lord. They had but a limited, imperfect, muddled, foggy grasp of this truth and needed further revelation.

They did not understand the OT Scriptures predicting the resurrection. They were like the disciples on the way to Emmaus, whom Jesus upbraided with the words, “O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken” (Luke 24:25; cf. vs. 26, 27). A significant OT prediction of the resurrection is Ps. 16:10 (cf. Acts 2:24-28).

Martha knew there would be a resurrection Jn. 11:24 but did not understand Jesus when He said that her brother would rise again. She needed her limited understanding of the resurrection expanded.

The gospel that Jesus preached was a seed of the gospel that saves today but not a different one. Jesus said:

John: 10. 16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

This spoke of the Gentiles.

Isaiah had predicted that the Messiah would be “a light of the Gentiles” (Isa. 42:6; cf. Isa. 49:6). Jesus declared Himself to be that light (Matt. 12:16-21). He was the light not of the Jewish nation only but of the world (John 8:12). “God so loved the world, that He gave” Jesus (ch. 3:16). At the time the Gentiles would take their place in the spiritual kingdom many of the Jews would be rejected (Matt. 8:11, 12; Rom. 11:1-26). The teaching of Jesus was explicit on this subject though it was not distinctly understood.
The true position of the Gentile in the early church was a point much discussed (see Acts 15:1).

Consider what underlies MADs teaching. You have knowledge of the mystery. This is not revealed to all but it is to you oh favoured one. ��

This is nothing more that repackaged Gnosticism.

Pete ��

"I am not saying they had perfect understanding of dbr of The Lord. They had but a limited, imperfect, muddled, foggy grasp of this truth and needed further revelation. They did not understand the OT Scriptures predicting the resurrection. "-you


Made up-it was hid from them.


"The gospel that Jesus preached was a seed of the gospel that saves today but not a different one. "-you

Made up. The good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV is not equivalent to the "gospel(good news) of the kingdom," the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, including Judas preached.

He is on record-he asserts that Judas preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV-he "beatified" Judas-saint Judas.

You've been shown, deceiver, fleecer of the sheep. You are nothing but a drone, listening to your Pastor Judas/Demas,reading other websites, not surveying the book.

So there. Sit.

 

[john w]

John: 2. 22. When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
As I said, limited. Jesus told them and that means limited revelation:

Matthew: 17. 22. And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: 23. And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

They were sorry! They understood as best they could at the time. You have been shown chapter and verse. I will not call you a deceiver for I believe that you are deceived yourself. Anyway I thought I answered this post. ��

Pete ��

Made up. It was hid from them. They intially did not believe He had risen.

 

[Right Divider]

Yep.

Paul preached the kingdom of God.

Even many years after he first preached it (despite what MADists claim)

(Acts 28:31 KJV) Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Preaching the kingdom of God is NOT the same as preaching the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM.

I realize that someone like yourself is not capable of understanding nuances like these, but scripture is full of them.

 

[Cross Reference]

What defines sin?

In a word . . . Relationship.

cf Romans 8:1-2 KJV

 

[revpete]

"I am not saying they had perfect understanding of dbr of The Lord. They had but a limited, imperfect, muddled, foggy grasp of this truth and needed further revelation. They did not understand the OT Scriptures predicting the resurrection. "-you


Made up-it was hid from them.


"The gospel that Jesus preached was a seed of the gospel that saves today but not a different one. "-you

Made up. The good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV is not equivalent to the "gospel(good news) of the kingdom," the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, including Judas preached.


You've been shown, deceiver, fleecer of the sheep. You are nothing but a drone, listening to your Pastor Judas/Demas,reading other websites, not surveying the book.

So there. Sit.

Try looking in the mirror and repeating that. You accuse, insult and trumpet your MAD propaganda. You do not know the meaning of grace in any sense of the word.

I say again, the gospel, along with scripture in general is a progressive revelation, a revelation that reached its peak in the preaching of Peter and Paul. You can twist and pervert as much as you like it matters not. Just because the original disciples of Jesus did not have the full gospel revelation does not in any sense mean that they preached a different gospel.

The Lord also ministered to Gentiles showing what was to come:

I am not sent. That is, Jesus was sent primarily to the Jews, though when occasion offered He did not deny the Gentiles the blessings He accorded His own people. It was not until many years after Christ had ascended to heaven that Jewish Christians fully grasped the fact that God considered all men everywhere eligible to become citizens of the kingdom of heaven (see Acts 9:9-18, 32-35; 10:1-48; 15:1-29; Rom. 1:16; 9:24; etc.).

So there. Sit.

Pete

 

[Right Divider]

Try looking in the mirror and repeating that. You accuse, insult and trumpet your MAD propaganda. You do not know the meaning of grace in any sense of the word.

I say again, the gospel, along with scripture in general is a progressive revelation, a revelation that reached its peak in the preaching of Peter and Paul. You can twist and pervert as much as you like it matters not. Just because the original disciples of Jesus did not have the full gospel revelation does not in any sense mean that they preached a different gospel.

The Lord also ministered to Gentiles showing what was to come:

I am not sent. That is, Jesus was sent primarily to the Jews, though when occasion offered He did not deny the Gentiles the blessings He accorded His own people. It was not until many years after Christ had ascended to heaven that Jewish Christians fully grasped the fact that God considered all men everywhere eligible to become citizens of the kingdom of heaven (see Acts 9:9-18, 32-35; 10:1-48; 15:1-29; Rom. 1:16; 9:24; etc.).

So there. Sit.

Pete

Pete, you're just impervious to facts. You want to believe that you want to believe. That's the way most people are.

 

[revpete]

Pete, you're just impervious to facts. You want to believe that you want to believe. That's the way most people are.

You included?

Pete

 

[Right Divider]

You included?

Pete

Nope, that's why I said "most people".

What do you think that "understood none" and "was hid from" means?

 

[fzappa13]

Show us the GOOD NEWS that Jesus Christ died for our sins (not just Israel) that Peter preached in Acts 1-6.

If your faith is built upon six chapters of one book of the Bible then you are the doctrinal equivalent a one legged man on his way to a rear kicking contest. However, for your edification, here are a few verses from your chosen Bible you might wish to review a little more closely:

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


That's Peter saying not just Jews ... whosoever.


Acts2: 37 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



There's your "good news".



39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.



I know, even highlighted you will not see what is said. Even though Paul himself told you not to you will still say you are of Paul as if there were two churches, two faiths and two baptisms though he plainly said otherwise. There is one way to the kingdom of heaven and it's not through Paul or Peter. It is through Jesus. You will not sneak in through any other door. If you are to be saved by faith it will be by the faith that both Peter and Paul preached for they are one and the same.

 

[Cross Reference]

If your faith is built upon six chapters of one book of the Bible then you are the doctrinal equivalent a one legged man on his way to a rear kicking contest. However, for your edification, here are a few verses from your chosen Bible you might wish to review a little more closely:

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


That's Peter saying not just Jews ... whosoever.


Acts2: 37 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.



I know, even highlighted you will not see what is said. Even though Paul himself told you not to you will still say you are of Paul as if there were two churches, two faiths and two baptisms though he plainly said otherwise. There is one way to the kingdom of heaven and it's not through Paul or Peter. It is through Jesus. You will not sneak in through any other door. If you are to be saved by faith it will be by the faith that both Peter and Paul preached for they are one and the same.

Preach it, brother!!

 

[john w]

Try looking in the mirror and repeating that. You accuse, insult and trumpet your MAD propaganda. You do not know the meaning of grace in any sense of the word.

Oh. Thanks! Try getting saved.

So there.

I say again, the gospel, along with scripture in general is a progressive revelation, a revelation that reached its peak in the preaching of Peter and Paul. You can twist and pervert as much as you like it matters not. Just because the original disciples of Jesus did not have the full gospel revelation does not in any sense mean that they preached a different gospel.

The Lord also ministered to Gentiles showing what was to come:

I am not sent. That is, Jesus was sent primarily to the Jews, though when occasion offered He did not deny the Gentiles the blessings He accorded His own people. It was not until many years after Christ had ascended to heaven that Jewish Christians fully grasped the fact that God considered all men everywhere eligible to become citizens of the kingdom of heaven (see Acts 9:9-18, 32-35; 10:1-48; 15:1-29; Rom. 1:16; 9:24; etc.).

So there. Sit.

Pete ��

Made up. I gave you chapter, verse, in which to soak your "Well, that is what I was taught" head, that a 6 year old can understand, and you reject it, and deceive.

Sit.

 

[revpete]

Nope, that's why I said "most people".

What do you think that "understood none" and "was hid from" means?

I have gone over this but... It means that the full gospel revelation was not made known to them at that time, they were rather like Philip and Thomas who heard Jesus speak (Jn. 14) but couldn't understand fully what He meant.

Just because at the time they could not fully understand does not make for a different gospel just the same gospel but at a lower stage of revelation.

However, what I really cannot reconcile with scripture at all is MADs teaching that repentance is no longer necessary! Can you explain that please. This is a genuine question.

Pete

 

[revpete]

Sorry if this is off topic.

 

[Right Divider]

If your faith is built upon six chapters of one book of the Bible then you are the doctrinal equivalent a one legged man on his way to a rear kicking contest. However, for your edification, here are a few verses from your chosen Bible you might wish to review a little more closely:

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Don't get childish on me. My point is that what Peter preached on that LAWFULLY REQUIRED JEWISH FEAST DAY (as well as all of Acts 1-6), was nothing new. It was all about prophecy related to ISRAEL.

Indeed, Peter is quoting Joel about being saved THROUGH the tribulation. If you'd take the time to lookup the reference, you'd know that. This is NOT about eternal life (it looks you're among the many that can never see 'saved' without thinking that it's talking about eternal life).

Joe 2:31-32 KJV The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. (32) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
​

This is NOT about Jesus Christ's death on the cross for sin (i.e., the gospel of the grace of God). It's about the believing remnant of ISRAEL that the LORD will deliver when He pours out His vengeance during the DAY OF THE LORD.

That's Peter saying not just Jews ... whosoever.

Acts2: 37 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

There's your "good news".

So again you go CROSS-LESS and show us the SAME thing that John the baptizer preached long BEFORE the CROSS (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3).

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

That is ALL is about ISRAEL and their relationship with God. The "apostles doctrine" there is the doctrine of the 12 apostles for the 12 tribes of ISRAEL.... you know, the CIRCUMCISION apostles.

The "ALL that are afar off" is NOT referring to HEATHEN Gentiles, but to Israel scattered among the nations.

I know, even highlighted you will not see what is said. Even though Paul himself told you not to you will still say you are of Paul as if there were two churches, two faiths and two baptisms though he plainly said otherwise. There is one way to the kingdom of heaven and it's not through Paul or Peter. It is through Jesus. You will not sneak in through any other door. If you are to be saved by faith it will be by the faith that both Peter and Paul preached for they are one and the same.

Actually, I'M the ONE that DOES see what it says. You see the fables told by "Churchianity".

 

[Cross Reference]

Those in Christ should realize that this nonsense from the Paulinian crowd has its roots in anti-Christ. . .

 

[john w]

I have gone over this but... It means that the full gospel revelation was not made known to them at that time, they were rather like Philip and Thomas who heard Jesus speak (Jn. 14) but couldn't understand fully what He meant.

Just because at the time they could not fully understand does not make for a different gospel just the same gospel but at a lower stage of revelation.

However, what I really cannot reconcile with scripture at all is MADs teaching that repentance is no longer necessary! Can you explain that please. This is a genuine question.

Pete ��

Kids need repetition-made up-it was hid from the 12.

Go, saint Judas-Pete!!!!

 

[Right Divider]

I have gone over this but... It means that the full gospel revelation was not made known to them at that time, they were rather like Philip and Thomas who heard Jesus speak (Jn. 14) but couldn't understand fully what He meant.

Just because at the time they could not fully understand does not make for a different gospel just the same gospel but at a lower stage of revelation.

Come on Pete, get serious. Luke 18:34 does NOT describe a situation of "limited knowledge" or "partial knowledge". It says that they understood NONE of these things and that it was HID FROM THEM.

You cannot keep playing that game.

Luk 18:34 KJV And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.​

This scripture is crystal clear and completely unambiguous. It leaves NO room at all for "limited knowledge" or "partial knowledge". It even says the same thing THREE different ways. How can you miss it?

However, what I really cannot reconcile with scripture at all is MADs teaching that repentance is no longer necessary! Can you explain that please. This is a genuine question.

Pete

This sounds to me more like a straw-man than a real MAD doctrine. We simply understand that repentance means turning around. Many others in "Churchianity" pour a different meaning into it.

 

[turbosixx]

The kingdom of heaven was at hand

Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

There's no way anyone today is getting in that kingdom and it's not even the offer on the table. Now, how about acknowledging the OP.

Sorry, I was addressing the OP. I see them as the same. Looking at what Jesus taught about the kingdom looks like the gospel Paul taught.

Matt. 13:44 "The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

Matt. 13:18 "Hear then the parable of the sower. 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road...... 23 And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."

Looking at these parables and understanding that the word of the kingdom must be understood by the hearer just as hearers of the gospel must understand and believe. That's why Paul preached the kingdom, the gospel is how we enter the kingdom.

Acts 28:30 And he stayed two full years in his own rented quarters and was welcoming all who came to him, 31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered.


Paul says we are in Christ's kingdom.
Col. 1:13 He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Jesus said it would be established before some he was talking to died.
Matt. 16:28 "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

What do you understand the kingdom to be?

 

[achduke]

Come on Pete, get serious. Luke 18:34 does NOT describe a situation of "limited knowledge" or "partial knowledge". It says that they understood NONE of these things and that it was HID FROM THEM.

You cannot keep playing that game.

Luk 18:34 KJV And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.​

This scripture is crystal clear and completely unambiguous. It leaves NO room at all for "limited knowledge" or "partial knowledge". It even says the same thing THREE different ways. How can you miss it?


This sounds to me more like a straw-man than a real MAD doctrine. We simply understand that repentance means turning around. Many others in "Churchianity" pour a different meaning into it.

That is correct. They did not understand what they were told until.

Luke 24:45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

 

[john w]

This sounds to me more like a straw-man than a real MAD doctrine. We simply understand that repentance means turning around. Many others in "Churchianity" pour a different meaning into it.

Correct, RD-repent="change your mind....do an 'about face'," the context telling us what the change of mind is about.


The LORD God repented.