THERE IS AN ADVANTAGE TO NOT TRUST IN OSAS.

[Right Divider]

mmmm .... let's see. Paul's talking to you until ... he isn't. You guys keep telling us to read Paul and when we do you get gas. What he said was obvious enough to me and it is equally obvious that it said something similar to you that you felt the need to explain away. Rather than explain it away consider just letting it say what it says, believe it, and then go back and figure out what you ingested that required you to explain away what Paul clearly said.

Oh, and before I forget, who do you propose is the other branch Paul is speaking of?

Please don't get so excited, it's not good for you.

You have to read IN CONTEXT. Sometimes Paul writes things that must be read that way. Takes this passage as an example:

Rom 2:17-24 KJV Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, (18) And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; (19) And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, (20) An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. (21) Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? (22) Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? (23) Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? (24) For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.​

Who was Paul talking about here?

Much of Romans is a history lesson showing how Israel did not obey the LORD.

Rom 9:1-5 KJV I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, (2) That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. (3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: (4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; (5) Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
​

Don't forget that Gentiles (stranger) were always allowed to join with Israel and be "as one born in the land". Other Gentiles that did NOT join with Israel were outside of the promises.

These Gentiles that joined Israel are the one grafted in. But NOW everyone can come to God without Israel.

Rom 11:25 KJV For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.​

Notice how the fullness of the Gentiles is coming in WHILE Israel is blinded in part.

Someday, Israel will be restored. Until then it's the dispensation of the grace of God to us Gentiles.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Failure to rightly divide the word causes confusion, supposed contradiction,
and inability to understand where we stand today.

 

[genuineoriginal]

If you're a gentile, Paul was/is your Apostle. Peter and the rest spoke to the Jews
about the Kingdom Gospel. Today, we're all under the Grace Gospel. Both Jew and
gentile alike.

Paul preached the kingdom of God to Gentiles as well as to Jews.

Acts 28:28-31 28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. 29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.​

 

[Right Divider]

Paul preached the kingdom of God to Gentiles as well as to Jews.

Acts 28:28-31 28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. 29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.​

So?

 

[genuineoriginal]

So?

If you don't care for right doctrine, you can continue wrongly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Right Divider]

If you don't care for right doctrine, you can continue wrongly dividing the word of truth.

The kingdom of God encompasses all of God's creation. I don't see why you think is any problem for MAD.

The gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of the grace of God are not identical no matter how much you cry about it.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The kingdom of God encompasses all of God's creation. I don't see why you think is any problem for MAD.

The gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of the grace of God are not identical no matter how much you cry about it.

Only MAD believers preach that there is a difference.
Why do you think that would not be a problem for the rest of Christianity?

 

[Right Divider]

Only MAD believers preach that there is a difference.

Guess what... we preach it because it's right there in the pages of scripture. Only a blind bat can miss it.

Why do you think that would not be a problem for the rest of Christianity?

The "rest of Christianity" is pretty much like most of Israel back in Christ's day. That's why I usually call it "Churchianity".

 

[genuineoriginal]

Guess what... we preach it because it's right there in the pages of scripture. Only a blind bat can miss it.

Considering how blind you are to most of scripture, that is ironic.

The "rest of Christianity" is pretty much like most of Israel back in Christ's day. That's why I usually call it "Churchianity".

Well, I do agree with you on that point, but I can also see how MAD fits along with "Churchianity".

It is all about denying what God intended in the scriptures and substituting God's intention with your own private interpretation.

 

[fzappa13]

Please don't get so excited, it's not good for you.

Aw, come on man. Better that than a Laodicean, right? Oh, sorry, I forgot. That book isn't for you. :chuckle:

You have to read IN CONTEXT.

I agree. That is why I offered what for this joint is a large chunk of scripture so as not to be accused of cherry picking verses.

Sometimes Paul writes things that must be read that way.

I agree and a good place to start might be those 4 verses you lifted from Collossians to suggest that heaven is the long home of man. Beginning at chapter 2 and going on through to chapter 3 verse 17 Paul starts by saying he is with the Laodiceans in spirit if not in the flesh and so begins as series of such analogies that go on to encourage the believer. Some have taken these analogies as being literal and so claim salvation, resurrection and proximity to Jesus in heaven as an accomplished fact. I actually had Cross Reference tell me two days ago that he had no need of the resurrection in that he already had anything of benefit that it would bring. Herein lay the danger of taking analogies literally.

Takes this passage as an example:

Rom 2:17-24 KJV Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, (18) And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; (19) And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, (20) An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. (21) Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? (22) Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? (23) Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? (24) For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.​

Who was Paul talking about here?

Hypocrites.

Much of Romans is a history lesson showing how Israel did not obey the LORD.

Rom 9:1-5 KJV I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, (2) That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. (3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: (4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; (5) Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
​

Don't forget that Gentiles (stranger) were always allowed to join with Israel and be "as one born in the land". Other Gentiles that did NOT join with Israel were outside of the promises.

Right.

These Gentiles that joined Israel are the one grafted in. But NOW everyone can come to God without Israel.

Rom 11:25 KJV For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.​

Notice how the fullness of the Gentiles is coming in WHILE Israel is blinded in part.

Okay, but you still haven't established who Paul was talking to in Romans 11 if not Gentiles.

Someday, Israel will be restored. Until then it's the dispensation of the grace of God to us Gentiles.

... and those Jews who would be a part of this arrangement.

 

[Right Divider]

Considering how blind you are to most of scripture, that is ironic.

I would expect nothing less from a Christ denier such as yourself.

Well, I do agree with you on that point, but I can also see how MAD fits along with "Churchianity".

It is all about denying what God intended in the scriptures and substituting God's intention with your own private interpretation.

Wrong again.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I would expect nothing less from a Christ denier such as yourself.

I do not deny the Messiah.

It appears that your inability to understand what you read extends far beyond scriptures.

 

[Right Divider]

<cut>
Okay, but you still haven't established who Paul was talking to in Romans 11 if not Gentiles.

As I was pointing out there are TWO types of Gentiles. Those that joined with Israel and those that did NOT. These NOT kind are the ones that are called heathen.

... and those Jews who would be a part of this arrangement.

What about 'em?

 

[Right Divider]

I do not deny the Messiah.

It appears that your inability to understand what you read extends far beyond scriptures.

If you deny WHO He is, then you deny Him.

 

[genuineoriginal]

... and those Jews who would be a part of this arrangement.

What about 'em?

Those are not my words.
Follow the link, these are my words:

Considering how blind you are to most of scripture, that is ironic.


Well, I do agree with you on that point, but I can also see how MAD fits along with "Churchianity".

It is all about denying what God intended in the scriptures and substituting God's intention with your own private interpretation.

 

[genuineoriginal]

If you deny WHO He is, then you deny Him.

I do not deny WHO Jesus is.

1 John 5:10 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.​

 

[fzappa13]

As I was pointing out there are TWO types of Gentiles. Those that joined with Israel and those that did NOT. These NOT kind are the ones that are called heathen.

... and now there are still two types of Gentiles. Those grafted into the olive tree and those not.

 

[Right Divider]

... and now there are still two types of Gentiles. Those grafted into the olive tree and those not.

No, there are two types of people: saved and unsaved.

Gal 3:28 KJV There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
​

That doctrine is uniquely Pauline.

At the END of the book, you will find the twelve tribes again.

Rev 21:10-14 KJV And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (11) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; (12) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: (13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. (14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.​

Poor Paul gets left out.

 

[fzappa13]

No, there are two types of people: saved and unsaved.

Now you went from talking about Gentiles to talking about people in general ... and that's ok it's just normally common courtesy to put on your signal light before turning.

Gal 3:28 KJV There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
​

That doctrine is uniquely Pauline.

Ah, no. It is not.

Rev 7: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.



1Pet 2: 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

At the END of the book, you will find the twelve tribes again.

Yes and the 12 Apostles as well. Let's see, 12 + 12 = 24 last time I looked. Kinda makes one think of the 24 elders mentioned earlier in Revelation.

Rev 21:10-14 KJV And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (11) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; (12) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: (13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. (14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.​

Poor Paul gets left out.

As does the Holy Ghost ... and your point is?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

No, there are two types of people: saved and unsaved.

Gal 3:28 KJV There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
​

That doctrine is uniquely Pauline.

At the END of the book, you will find the twelve tribes again.

Rev 21:10-14 KJV And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (11) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; (12) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: (13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. (14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.​

Poor Paul gets left out.

I wonder why? Paul is the Apostle to the gentiles would be my
best guess. Paul, no doubt, was under the Grace Gospel Message.