The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace

lightninboy

Member
Dear drbrumley,
Thank you for your reply.

drbrumley said:
Were the first Christians Jews? Nice spin on the two questions, meaning answering either in the affirmative puts me at odds with myself because of conflicting answers. In other words, NO!
You call those Jewish people on probation Christians? NO!
I guess the first Christians were Jews, unless like you want to start counting before Abraham, like with Adam and Eve.
I’m not saying that a non-Christian can’t preach the gospel, but wouldn’t it seem funny if Peter led Gentiles to Christ, and he wasn’t even a Christian himself?

drbrumley said:
Not at all. After Christ's death and resurrection defeating sin and Satan, it went back to the original way before sin entered the world.
Are you trying to say that if the Jews had accepted the Kingdom, the Millennium would have come?
 

lightninboy

Member
Lighthouse said:
Usually, when I don't know the answer, I defer to someone else on TOL who has the same stance, and knows more.
Dear Lighthouse,
Thank you for your reply.

I was just thinking I'll try to find some such person to debate me.
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
It's not that I don't know the answers, I'm just bored with your refusal to see what we're saying. So I'm done with this discourse.
 

lightninboy

Member
Dear drbrumley,
Thank you for your prompt reply.
You seem to be a man of few words.
I'm afraid I need a better communicator to debate with.

Acts 2 Dispensationalism believes that if the Jews had accepted the Kingdom, the Millennium would have come too.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
lightninboy said:
Dear drbrumley,
Thank you for your prompt reply.
You seem to be a man of few words.
I'm afraid I need a better communicator to debate with.

Acts 2 Dispensationalism believes that if the Jews had accepted the Kingdom, the Millennium would have come too.
A better communicater? You havent said anything to debate yet? What do you want to debate, your position that is Acts 2? What?
 

lightninboy

Member
Dear drbrumley,
Thank you for your reply.
Here are some questions for you.

#196 The law did not provide eternal salvation at all but rather offered temporal purification for the Jews (Hebrews 9:13-14)
True or false?

Because the utter sinfulness of man makes him absolutely incapable of having any part in earning his own salvation (Romans 3:21-23, 10-18; Psalm 14:1-3; Ecclesiastes 7:20; Isaiah 64:6)
True or false?

If merit allows a man to glory in earning his salvation and this kind of glorying is wrong, then why is it wrong for us but all right for those in other dispensations?

If merit was wrong for Abraham (Romans 4:2), the great Old Testament saint who was called the friend of God (James 2:23), then why is it all right for other Old Testament saints?

Works-salvation makes God a debtor to man, something He can never be. (Romans 4:3-5; 11:35)
True or false?

Even under the law, men came to God ultimately by faith. Even though their faith might be expressed in works (as ours should be), it was still faith that got God's attention.
True or false?

With the exception of Judas, the apostles were certainly saved during the lifetime of Christ, though I would not speculate as to the exact time.
True or false?

What was Jesus talking about in John 3 if not that Old Testament people had to have everlasting life the same way we do?
 

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
Because lightninboy asked this question,

Because the utter sinfulness of man makes him absolutely incapable of having any part in earning his own salvation (Romans 3:21-23 . . . . . . .)
True or false?


True and False! We do not earn our salvation. But, we do have to believe what God tells us about the salvation He has prepared for us. I like to read a little more of the context of Romans 3.

Romans 3:21-28 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

We are justified by our faith because of Christ’s faithfulness, but only because Jesus Christ paid the penalty for our sins by dying on the cross.

In Christ,
Bob Hill
 

Bob Hill

TOL Subscriber
Dispensation means “the act of dispensing; a system of revealed commands and promises” (Merriam Webster’s 7th New Collegiate Dictionary).

In the Bible, it means the way a house is run. So it can mean the rules that God set out for a specific period of time.

It could also be the Dispensation of Law. Or the dispensation of Grace. The word dispensation is used four times in the Bible. Here are the passages.

1 Co 9:16,17,19 For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for necessity is laid upon me; yes, woe is me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a dispensation. 19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more.

Eph 1:7-10 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth -- in Him.

Eph 3:1-6 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles - 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel

Col 1:24-29 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the dispensation of God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. 29 To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily.

God dispenses certain programs or house rules in His own timing. Paul was responsible to dispense the gospel of grace that the Lord had called him to preach. God dispensed these truths, which were a mystery before. In the dispensation that God gave to Paul for us today, the believing Jews and Gentiles become one new body in Christ.

Bob Hill
 

jeremysdemo

New member
Bob Hill said:
We are justified by our faith because of Christ’s faithfulness, but only because Jesus Christ paid the penalty for our sins by dying on the cross.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

Jesus never said that.

He said repent.

It doesn't matter how any other person put it, if your not following what Jesus said your not saved.

keep shinin'

jerm :)
 

lightninboy

Member
jeremysdemo said:
Jesus never said that.

He said repent.

It doesn't matter how any other person put it, if your not following what Jesus said your not saved.

keep shinin'

jerm :)
I didn't see the word "repent" in your church's doctrinal statement.
 

jeremysdemo

New member
lightninboy said:
I didn't see the word "repent" in your church's doctrinal statement.

What does my church have to do with my personal beliefs?

I disagree with much of what Pastor Grubby and Pastor Rentler teach, and I have no problem telling them so!

I love them regardless as do they me.

keep shinin'

jerm :)
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Lighthouse said:
I wasn't even Mid-Acts until about a year after I started posting on TOL. I was 23. I started going to church when I was 3. I had read James and Paul for almost twenty years before I came to the MAD position. It didn't make any sense to me, and I could not reconcile one with the other. Then I read The Plot. Problem solved.

Ah yes, the Plot filter/glasses. The Plot might sound good on the surface, but it breaks down with sound exegesis, in context, of relevant proof texts. It is too deductive of an approach, rather than inductive. My explanation of James vs Romans fits biblical theology (look at the book as a whole vs systematic theology or proof texts). Each book stands on its own without contradiction or resorting to a rational, dispensationalization away of sound interpretation.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
godrulz said:
Ah yes, the Plot filter/glasses. The Plot might sound good on the surface, but it breaks down with sound exegesis, in context, of relevant proof texts. It is too deductive of an approach, rather than inductive. My explanation of James vs Romans fits biblical theology (look at the book as a whole vs systematic theology or proof texts). Each book stands on its own without contradiction or resorting to a rational, dispensationalization away of sound interpretation.
Godrulz, list the items that breakdown the Plot with sound exegesis.
 

patman

Active member
thelaqachisnext said:
Where does the OT say the nephillim were fallen angels? -Are you trying to claim that Goliath was a fallen angel?
Goliath was born of the Anakim; Anakim were of the rephaim [the dead] the Rephaim were of Anak Anak was of the nephillim; the nephillim were of the Watchers and “daughters born in Adam“.

This post and the last are more examples of how you are not reading what I am writing.

You do realize that Enoch's giants were WAAAAAY bigger than these men, right? 400 feet... if you take the book literally, if you allow for there to mistakes in he book you COULD say 40 feet, but either way, this is one massive giant. Was goliath 40 feet tall? Did he require food?

You are trying to twist all the words of scripture to make it agree with Enoch. Shame on you. Job wanted a book from God, Babel happened just years after the flood, Abram was born around 300 years after that happened, and you want all the "giants" of the Bible to mean Enoch's giants...

Instead of reading MAD from the bible, you read Enoch into the Bible and bring nothing but chaos from it.

From now on, my post to you are going to be much shorter because you are loosing your attention, or you are day dreaming or something, as you read...
 

thelaqachisnext

BANNED
Banned
patman said:
This post and the last are more examples of how you are not reading what I am writing.

You do realize that Enoch's giants were WAAAAAY bigger than these men, right? 400 feet... if you take the book literally, if you allow for there to mistakes in he book you COULD say 40 feet, but either way, this is one massive giant. Was goliath 40 feet tall? Did he require food?

You are trying to twist all the words of scripture to make it agree with Enoch. Shame on you. Job wanted a book from God, Babel happened just years after the flood, Abram was born around 300 years after that happened, and you want all the "giants" of the Bible to mean Enoch's giants...

Instead of reading MAD from the bible, you read Enoch into the Bible and bring nothing but chaos from it.

From now on, my post to you are going to be much shorter because you are loosing your attention, or you are day dreaming or something, as you read...

Your question about Goliath and food is from ignorance, again.
Demons are disembodied spirits of the seed of the Watchers; -and Goliath is disembodied and he was a 'flesh/foul-spirit descendent of the nephillim; as I showed from the Scriptures.

How about taking some history lessons before you keep shaming yourself? -everything was bigger before the flood!

You have not replied to my questions to you because you have no answers, and you are telling a falsehood about the statement in Job -which I pointed out to you from the Word of God.

Goliath and his brothers, who were descended from Watchers who descended to Mount Hermon sometime after the flood, were lots smaller than their Anakim [descended from the nephillim] ancestors, who were so huge the Israelites were like grasshoppers in size before them. If they were about 5 ft 10 inches tall and described themselves as grasshoppers in size comparison to the Anakim, then the Anakim of their own day were not as small as Goliath.

King Og's bed was 9 cubits long and 4 cubits wide. If that's an 18 inch cubit, then that certain "remnant of the giants" was 12 ft or so tall -and that's after the flood, when everything is smaller.

As to the height of the Giants before the flood -well Jack and the beanstalk probably tells the germ of the truth on that!:)

Everything was bigger before the flood -dragonflies had six foot wingspans [I think I have read], armadillos were the size of cars [suppossedly this size of the flood, too!], and so on and so forth. -but as you have no heart for true history of earth and the facts of the Word of God, I’m sure you’ll be more comfortable just going on in your ignorance and in the false doctrine of MAD.

http://s8int.com/mega1.html
There Were Giants in Those Days

----Spectacular Specimen: 8 Foot Bug Reconstructed ....Page 6
Ice Age Armadillos the Size of Cars, Fossil Shows
Mega Fauna- Fossils Reveal Flying Prehistoric Giants..... Page 7
There Were Giants in Those Days----Mega Fauna ....Page 1
Other Giant Fossils

What we don't hear about are all the other giant fossils that have been found. "Giant animal fossils of many different kinds have been found all over the world. A book called Giants From the Past, published by the National Geographic Society, shows many of these huge creatures of the past no longer exist today.
...
Fossil remains of the hornless rhinoceros (right, left panel)indicate it was over 17 feet tall. Pigs grew to be the size of cattle; camels were over 12 feet tall; huge Click and drag photo to resize. Script from The Java Script Source...

Duck Soup for a Month

By Grant Holloway
CNN Sydney

ALICE SPRINGS, Australia (CNN) -- The remains of giant geese, some weighing up to 500 kilograms, or more than half a ton, have been discovered in the central Australian desert.

Mega Fauna--No Real Place in Evolution
...
One reason that Giant mammals aren't currently well known is that they aren't discussed very much by the scientific community--not like dinosaurs are. Evolutionary theory doesn't do that great a job of explaining why such large animals were the ancestors of the smaller animals living today.


Giant Oyster Fossils Found at 13,000 Feet

Tasted like chicken? We’re not sure but, giant, fossilized oysters, over 500 of them have been found nearly two miles above sea level in the Andes mountains of Peru.

The bi-valve, ocean dwelling mollusks indicate quite obviously that at one time, despite the high altitude, that these mountains had once been under water—as would happen in say—a worldwide flood.

The fossils were found by Cuban paleontologist, Arturo Vildozola near the town of Acostambo in January of 2001. The fossilized oysters (Plagiostoma giganteum) reached a width of 12 feet and weighed up to 650 pounds. ...

Giant "humans" in history;
http://s8int.com/giants1.html

PS. -there are some really big angels too!

Rev 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow [was] upon his head, and his face [was] as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
Rev 10:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and [his] left [foot] on the earth,
Rev 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as [when] a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
Rev 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
Rev 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
 
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