The True Gospel of Jesus Christ and the False Gospel of John Calvin

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dialm

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AMR,

Goliath's sword is very dangerous. Have always been told to be very careful when swinging it. David did certainly lop off the giant's head. And Saul did go after a few priests over it. (Just saying.)
 
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dialm

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The verse reads correctly. Man has a responsibility. The unregenerated are guilty of not believing.
 
Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

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It was to save sinners that Jesus Christ came into the world. He did not come to help them to save themselves, nor to induce them to save themselves, nor even to enable them to save themselves.

AMR
 
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dialm

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
It was to save sinners that Jesus Christ came into the world. He did not come to help them to save themselves, nor to induce them to save themselves, nor even to enable them to save themselves.

AMR
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This is true.

But the enemy claims 3:16 for himself. He doesn't have it. He knows this so he would have us as consolation.

Mankind stands guilty before God. Mankind is responsible. Mankind is not going to slip the knot just because a few Calvinist like me can't handle a sword.

The verse is negative. Not positive.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
It was to save sinners that Jesus Christ came into the world. He did not come to help them to save themselves, nor to induce them to save themselves, nor even to enable them to save themselves.

AMR
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People do not save themselves, but they can of their own free will refuse Jesus' right to rule over them or to accept His rule.

Luke 19:27
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.​

 
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dialm

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There comes a point where we must admit that we don't know. If we are going to give Pate credit then here it is.

We don't know everything. Robert Pate has uncovered our dirty little secret.
 
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Robert Pate

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
When it suits you, "all" means each and every person who ever lived. Try imposing that more reasonably. See also John 12:32; 6:37; Luke 11:42; Acts 2:17; 10:12; Rom 14:2; 1 Cor 1:5; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 Tim 2:1-2, 4, 8; Matt 9:35. Cherry-picking Scripture to suit your purposes is not exegesis at all, Robert. :AMR1:

Proponents of general atonement like yourself cite general terms in three groups of texts to prove that God intended for Jesus to die for all humans without exception and that Jesus’ death is ineffective for some for whom He died.

(1) Texts containing the word “world”: John 3:16; 1 John 2:1-2; John 6:51; 2 Cor 5:19; John 1:9, 29; 3:17; 4:42; 1 John 4:14; John 12:46

(2) Texts containing the word “all”: 1 Tim 2:4-6; 2 Pet 3:9; Heb 2:9; 2 Cor 5:14-15; 1 Cor 15:22; Rom 5:18

(3) Texts allegedly depicting the perishing of those for whom Christ died: Rom 14:15; 1 Cor 8:11; 2 Pet 2:1; Heb 10:29

None of these texts substantiates general atonement. To the contrary, these texts uphold definite atonement without any contradiction. Proponents of general atonement cite John 3:16, for example, but a right understanding of God’s love, τὸν κόσμον, and πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων perfectly harmonizes with definite atonement; as David used Goliath’s own sword to sever Goliath’s head, so proponents of definite atonement may use John 3:16 to refute general atonement. The same is true of the other passages, such as ἱλασμός and ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου in 1 John 2:2, οἱ πάντες in 2 Cor 5:14-15, ὁ ἀδελφός in Rom 14:15 and 1 Cor 8:11, and τὸν ἀγοράσαντα αὐτοὺς δεσπότην ἀρνούμενοι in 2 Pet 2:1.

AMR
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You said, "None of these texts substantiates general atonement".

Here is the heart of your problem. YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE BIBLE.

If the Bible says... "I came not to judge the world, but to save the world" John 12:47. You are called to believe that. To not believe it is to call Jesus a liar.
 
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Robert Pate

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
It was to save sinners that Jesus Christ came into the world. He did not come to help them to save themselves, nor to induce them to save themselves, nor even to enable them to save themselves.

AMR
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God forces no one to believe on his Son Jesus Christ.

Salvation has been provided for all by the doing and the dying of Jesus. God has done all that he can do for the salvation of fallen man, but there is one thing that he will not do and that is make someone believe on his Son Jesus Christ.
 
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Robert Pate

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dialm said:
There comes a point where we must admit that we don't know. If we are going to give Pate credit then here it is.

We don't know everything. Robert Pate has uncovered our dirty little secret.
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I know who my savior is and it is not John Calvin.
 
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dialm

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Robert Pate said:
I know who my savior is and it is not John Calvin.
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The olive branch has been extended to you many times. In fact to many times. So many times that the message is clear.

Now I'm going to help you Robert Pate.

John 3:16 is going positive. And so am I.
 
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Robert Pate

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dialm said:
The olive branch has been extended to you many times. In fact to many times. So many times that the message is clear.

Now I'm going to help you Robert Pate.

John 3:16 is going positive. And so am I.
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It has been positive for over 2000 years.
 
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dialm

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Robert Pate said:
It has been positive for over 2000 years.
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The opening comparison of paper money to the Gospel is sort of like an error. I don't think you really meant to say that the value of the Gospel fluctuates. So really you are just holding the Truth in error. As long as the Truth is given it doesn't matter so very much since we are only human.
 
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dialm

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Like the real money the Gospel just feels right. And feeling right means feeling good. And feeling good is good enough.
 
False Prophet

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Christians bless God, and they curse their neighbors. This wisdom does not come down from above; but is earthly, sensual, and demonic. Babylon becomes a dwelling place of demons, and John said on Patmos, "Get out of her my people." It does not say, "Stay in there and be a lighthouse."
14 But if you are selfish and have bitter jealousy in your hearts, do not brag. Your bragging is a lie that hides the truth. 15 That kind of “wisdom” does not come from God but from the world. It is not spiritual; it is from the devil. 16 Where jealousy and selfishness are, there will be confusion and every kind of evil. James 3
John 4:4 says, "Adultresses!" Don't you know that friendship with the world is enmity with God; he that chooses to be a friend of the world chooses to be an enemy of God.
 
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