The Trinity

[lifeisgood]

Yeah....I see you are still trying to divert attention from the fact that you knowingly misspoke about a whole faithful people.

I'm pretty sure I just quoted these following words from your post, but I could be mistaken.

"Muslims will admit that Jesus Christ was a true prophet, but deny that He was the Messiah "

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I mispoke about a whole faithful people?

Why do you keep on saying I didn't say something you are quoting that I said and I said I said.

According to certain traditions Isa will come back to earth again--TO DIE AS A MUSLIM!

HOWEVER for ISLAM Jesus is not the Saviour of the world, and is certainly not God, or "the Son of God".

Muhammad speaking respecting to his eternal fate:

Narrated 'Um al-'Ala:
An Ansari woman who gave the pledge of allegiance to the Prophet that the Ansar drew lots concerning the dwelling of the Emigrants. 'Uthman bin Maz'un was decided to dwell with them (i.e. Um al-'Ala's family), 'Uthman fell ill and I nursed him till he died, and we covered him with his clothes. Then the Prophet came to us and I (addressing the dead body) said, "O Abu As-Sa'ib, may Allah's Mercy be on you! I bear witness that Allah has honored you." On that the Prophet said, "How do you know that Allah has honored him?" I replied, "I do not know. May my father and my mother be sacrificed for you, O Allah's Apostle! But who else is worthy of it (if not 'Uthman)?" He said, "As to him, by Allah, death has overtaken him, and I hope the best for him. By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me," By Allah, I will never assert the piety of anyone after him. That made me sad, and when I slept I saw in a dream a flowing stream for 'Uthman bin Maz'un. I went to Allah's Apostle and told him of it. He remarked, "That symbolizes his (good) deeds." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 266)

Translation: No assurance of salvation.

====

Narrated Abu Huraira:
When Allah revealed the Verse: "Warn your nearest kinsmen," Allah's Apostle got up and said, "O people of Quraish (or said similar words)! Buy (i.e. save) yourselves (from the Hellfire) as I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment; O Bani Abd Manaf! I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment, O Safiya, the Aunt of Allah's Apostle! I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment; O Fatima bint Muhammad! Ask me anything from my wealth, but I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 51, Number 16)

Translation: No assurance of salvation.

=====

Allah made Muhammad repeat the point that, even though he is a messenger, he doesn’t know what will happen and that he doesn’t have any power to hurt or benefit anyone:

Say (unto them, O Muhammad): I pray unto Allah only, and ascribe unto Him no partner. Say: Lo! I control not hurt nor benefit for you. Say: Lo! none can protect me from Allah, nor can I find any refuge beside Him (Mine is) but conveyance (of the Truth) from Allah, and His messages; and whoso disobeyeth Allah and His messenger, lo! his is fire of hell, wherein such dwell for ever. Till (the day) when they shall behold that which they are promised (they may doubt); but then they will know (for certain) who is weaker in allies and less in multitude. Say (O Muhammad, unto the disbelievers): I know not whether that which ye are promised is nigh, or if my Lord hath set a distant term for it. S. 72:20-25 Pickthall Meccan

No one in Islam can say that they have guarantee of salvation, not even Mohammad himself.

====

"Isa" or "Isa Son of Mary" he is frequently called "Al-Masih" (Messiah) and at one time or another is also referred to as "the Word of God", "the Word of Truth", "a Spirit from Him", "the Messenger of God", "the Prophet of God", and "the Servant of God". He is even said to be "illustrious in this world and the next and of those nearest to God" (3:45).

Christ is seen to be a Prophet and Envoy of God of "surpassing greatness" (according to one Muslim writer), but only a man and nothing more.

No wonder they do not follow Isa, for Isa is lower than Mohammad even though Islam gives to Isa all these titles, for the Muslims are told that they are to submit only to Mohammad.

So, you, popsthebuilder, wants to go and tell the Muslims that everything is OK with their religion, go at it.

The BEST thing that can EVER happen to a Muslim is that they HEAR the Gospel of salvation - Jesus Christ and His vicarious/completed/finished work on the Cross of Calvary, for Islam does not assure any Muslim that he/she will be saved.

Instead of coming after me telling me I said said something I said, study a little bit about Islam so that when God presents you with a Muslim, you will at least know that they have no hope of salvation and maybe, just maybe, you will have the compunction to preach to that Muslim your testimony of how Jesus Christ saved you and how Jesus Christ can save that Muslim.

If you are predisposed to learn a little bit about Islam (not what you see on TV or hear on the news) you can go here: http://answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/muhammad_salvation.html

BTW: Muhammad was not certain of his salvation?

 

[God's Truth]

I mispoke about a whole faithful people?

Why do you keep on saying I didn't say something you are quoting that I said and I said I said.

According to certain traditions Isa will come back to earth again--TO DIE AS A MUSLIM!

HOWEVER for ISLAM Jesus is not the Saviour of the world, and is certainly not God, or "the Son of God".

Muhammad speaking respecting to his eternal fate:

Narrated 'Um al-'Ala:
An Ansari woman who gave the pledge of allegiance to the Prophet that the Ansar drew lots concerning the dwelling of the Emigrants. 'Uthman bin Maz'un was decided to dwell with them (i.e. Um al-'Ala's family), 'Uthman fell ill and I nursed him till he died, and we covered him with his clothes. Then the Prophet came to us and I (addressing the dead body) said, "O Abu As-Sa'ib, may Allah's Mercy be on you! I bear witness that Allah has honored you." On that the Prophet said, "How do you know that Allah has honored him?" I replied, "I do not know. May my father and my mother be sacrificed for you, O Allah's Apostle! But who else is worthy of it (if not 'Uthman)?" He said, "As to him, by Allah, death has overtaken him, and I hope the best for him. By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me," By Allah, I will never assert the piety of anyone after him. That made me sad, and when I slept I saw in a dream a flowing stream for 'Uthman bin Maz'un. I went to Allah's Apostle and told him of it. He remarked, "That symbolizes his (good) deeds." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 266)

Translation: No assurance of salvation.

====

Narrated Abu Huraira:
When Allah revealed the Verse: "Warn your nearest kinsmen," Allah's Apostle got up and said, "O people of Quraish (or said similar words)! Buy (i.e. save) yourselves (from the Hellfire) as I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment; O Bani Abd Manaf! I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment, O Safiya, the Aunt of Allah's Apostle! I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment; O Fatima bint Muhammad! Ask me anything from my wealth, but I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 51, Number 16)

Translation: No assurance of salvation.

=====

Allah made Muhammad repeat the point that, even though he is a messenger, he doesn’t know what will happen and that he doesn’t have any power to hurt or benefit anyone:

Say (unto them, O Muhammad): I pray unto Allah only, and ascribe unto Him no partner. Say: Lo! I control not hurt nor benefit for you. Say: Lo! none can protect me from Allah, nor can I find any refuge beside Him (Mine is) but conveyance (of the Truth) from Allah, and His messages; and whoso disobeyeth Allah and His messenger, lo! his is fire of hell, wherein such dwell for ever. Till (the day) when they shall behold that which they are promised (they may doubt); but then they will know (for certain) who is weaker in allies and less in multitude. Say (O Muhammad, unto the disbelievers): I know not whether that which ye are promised is nigh, or if my Lord hath set a distant term for it. S. 72:20-25 Pickthall Meccan

No one in Islam can say that they have guarantee of salvation, not even Mohammad himself.

====

"Isa" or "Isa Son of Mary" he is frequently called "Al-Masih" (Messiah) and at one time or another is also referred to as "the Word of God", "the Word of Truth", "a Spirit from Him", "the Messenger of God", "the Prophet of God", and "the Servant of God". He is even said to be "illustrious in this world and the next and of those nearest to God" (3:45).

Christ is seen to be a Prophet and Envoy of God of "surpassing greatness" (according to one Muslim writer), but only a man and nothing more.

No wonder they do not follow Isa, for Isa is lower than Mohammad even though Islam gives to Isa all these titles, for the Muslims are told that they are to submit only to Mohammad.

So, you, popsthebuilder, wants to go and tell the Muslims that everything is OK with their religion, go at it.

The BEST thing that can EVER happen to a Muslim is that they HEAR the Gospel of salvation - Jesus Christ and His vicarious/completed/finished work on the Cross of Calvary, for Islam does not assure any Muslim that he/she will be saved.

Instead of coming after me telling me I said said something I said, study a little bit about Islam so that when God presents you with a Muslim, you will at least know that they have no hope of salvation and maybe, just maybe, you will have the compunction to preach to that Muslim your testimony of how Jesus Christ saved you and how Jesus Christ can save that Muslim.

If you are predisposed to learn a little bit about Islam (not what you see on TV or hear on the news) you can go here: http://answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/muhammad_salvation.html

BTW: Muhammad was not certain of his salvation?

Why are you talking as if anyone thinks the Muslims believe Jesus Christ is God?

Pops, do you really think that the Muslims believe Jesus is the Jesus of the Bible?

They think the whole Bible is corrupt, they don't even believe Jesus died for our sins.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I mispoke about a whole faithful people?

Why do you keep on saying I didn't say something you are quoting that I said and I said I said.

According to certain traditions Isa will come back to earth again--TO DIE AS A MUSLIM!

HOWEVER for ISLAM Jesus is not the Saviour of the world, and is certainly not God, or "the Son of God".

Muhammad speaking respecting to his eternal fate:

Narrated 'Um al-'Ala:
An Ansari woman who gave the pledge of allegiance to the Prophet that the Ansar drew lots concerning the dwelling of the Emigrants. 'Uthman bin Maz'un was decided to dwell with them (i.e. Um al-'Ala's family), 'Uthman fell ill and I nursed him till he died, and we covered him with his clothes. Then the Prophet came to us and I (addressing the dead body) said, "O Abu As-Sa'ib, may Allah's Mercy be on you! I bear witness that Allah has honored you." On that the Prophet said, "How do you know that Allah has honored him?" I replied, "I do not know. May my father and my mother be sacrificed for you, O Allah's Apostle! But who else is worthy of it (if not 'Uthman)?" He said, "As to him, by Allah, death has overtaken him, and I hope the best for him. By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me," By Allah, I will never assert the piety of anyone after him. That made me sad, and when I slept I saw in a dream a flowing stream for 'Uthman bin Maz'un. I went to Allah's Apostle and told him of it. He remarked, "That symbolizes his (good) deeds." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 266)

Translation: No assurance of salvation.

====

Narrated Abu Huraira:
When Allah revealed the Verse: "Warn your nearest kinsmen," Allah's Apostle got up and said, "O people of Quraish (or said similar words)! Buy (i.e. save) yourselves (from the Hellfire) as I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment; O Bani Abd Manaf! I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment, O Safiya, the Aunt of Allah's Apostle! I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment; O Fatima bint Muhammad! Ask me anything from my wealth, but I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 51, Number 16)

Translation: No assurance of salvation.

=====

Allah made Muhammad repeat the point that, even though he is a messenger, he doesn’t know what will happen and that he doesn’t have any power to hurt or benefit anyone:

Say (unto them, O Muhammad): I pray unto Allah only, and ascribe unto Him no partner. Say: Lo! I control not hurt nor benefit for you. Say: Lo! none can protect me from Allah, nor can I find any refuge beside Him (Mine is) but conveyance (of the Truth) from Allah, and His messages; and whoso disobeyeth Allah and His messenger, lo! his is fire of hell, wherein such dwell for ever. Till (the day) when they shall behold that which they are promised (they may doubt); but then they will know (for certain) who is weaker in allies and less in multitude. Say (O Muhammad, unto the disbelievers): I know not whether that which ye are promised is nigh, or if my Lord hath set a distant term for it. S. 72:20-25 Pickthall Meccan

No one in Islam can say that they have guarantee of salvation, not even Mohammad himself.

====

"Isa" or "Isa Son of Mary" he is frequently called "Al-Masih" (Messiah) and at one time or another is also referred to as "the Word of God", "the Word of Truth", "a Spirit from Him", "the Messenger of God", "the Prophet of God", and "the Servant of God". He is even said to be "illustrious in this world and the next and of those nearest to God" (3:45).

Christ is seen to be a Prophet and Envoy of God of "surpassing greatness" (according to one Muslim writer), but only a man and nothing more.

No wonder they do not follow Isa, for Isa is lower than Mohammad even though Islam gives to Isa all these titles, for the Muslims are told that they are to submit only to Mohammad.

So, you, popsthebuilder, wants to go and tell the Muslims that everything is OK with their religion, go at it.

The BEST thing that can EVER happen to a Muslim is that they HEAR the Gospel of salvation - Jesus Christ and His vicarious/completed/finished work on the Cross of Calvary, for Islam does not assure any Muslim that he/she will be saved.

Instead of coming after me telling me I said said something I said, study a little bit about Islam so that when God presents you with a Muslim, you will at least know that they have no hope of salvation and maybe, just maybe, you will have the compunction to preach to that Muslim your testimony of how Jesus Christ saved you and how Jesus Christ can save that Muslim.

If you are predisposed to learn a little bit about Islam (not what you see on TV or hear on the news) you can go here: http://answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/muhammad_salvation.html

BTW: Muhammad was not certain of his salvation?

I cannot speak for others.

I speak from the Quran and would appreciate you not referring to other later texts.

My only point was that according to the Quran; Jesus is the Messiah.

You said it was not; according to all muslims.

I contend only, that the Quran refutes you and it is the core sacred text of Islam.

I am not speaking on the behalf of any person what so ever. I am speaking according to the words of the core sacred texts of both Christianity and Islam.

I did not say that any sect of Muslims was correct or true; nor would I say such of any particular sect or division of Christianity.

The Bible never calls GOD three parts only whole when added together within one vessel. The Bible never claims the vessel to be GOD almighty. Jesus never claimed to be GOD almighty, but that the Spirit dwelled in Him wholly and fully.

Why don't we discuss what you believe to be contradictions about the nature of GOD and Jesus between the two books if you insist on continuing along this line of reasoning at all. Honest civil discourse interests me. Conjecture, and preconceived notions based on ignorance coupled with the pride and greed of man do not.

I look forward to it.

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[God's Truth]

I cannot speak for others.

I speak from the Quran and would appreciate you not referring to other later texts.

My only point was that according to the Quran; Jesus is the Messiah.

You said it was not; according to all muslims.

I contend only, that the Quran refutes you and it is the core sacred text of Islam.

I am not speaking on the behalf of any person what so ever. I am speaking according to the words of the core sacred texts of both Christianity and Islam.

I did not say that any sect of Muslims was correct or true; nor would I say such of any particular sect or division of Christianity.

The Bible never calls GOD three parts only whole when added together within one vessel. The Bible never claims the vessel to be GOD almighty. Jesus never claimed to be GOD almighty, but that the Spirit dwelled in Him wholly and fully.

Why don't we discuss what you believe to be contradictions about the nature of GOD and Jesus between the two books if you insist on continuing along this line of reasoning at all. Honest civil discourse interests me. Conjecture, and preconceived notions based on ignorance coupled with the pride and greed of man do not.

I look forward to it.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Hi pops,

The Qur'an is a false book, it is another gospel. Jesus says salvation is from the Jews.

 

[SabathMoon]

Since God doesn't need to pray to God, it was Jesus in his humanity that prayed to His Father (GOD).

It's a simple question of discerning if the verse is speaking of our Lord in His humanity or His Deity.

Thou art Nestorius.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorius

 

[glorydaz]

Thou art Nestorius.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorius

Thou art a Jehovah's Witness.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Hi pops,

The Qur'an is a false book, it is another gospel. Jesus says salvation is from the Jews.

Salvation is from the jew according to Jesus?

Could we go over those verses please?

The Quran and the Bible teach the same thing for the same reason; mercy and equity are best for all, and the only righteous judgement for man to make upon man.

I understand your opinion and the opinion of the general mass. You are entitled to believe what you will, as I am entitled to believe what I have seen with my own eyes and felt within my very being. We can leave it there, or we can continue to discuss it with civility. The choice I will leave to you.

peace friend.

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[God's Truth]

Salvation is from the jew according to Jesus?

Right.

Could we go over those verses please?

Yes.

John 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

The Quran and the Bible teach the same thing

No way they do not.

for the same reason; mercy and equity are best for all, and the only righteous judgement for man to make upon man.

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.

I understand your opinion and the opinion of the general mass.

I am not of the general mass. Are you trying to offend, you know,like the general mass does?

You are entitled to believe what you will,

Yeah but we are on a debate site to debate.

as I am entitled to believe what I have seen with my own eyes and felt within my very being. We can leave it there, or we can continue to discuss it with civility. The choice I will leave to you.

I always discuss civilly.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

 

[popsthebuilder]

Right.



Yes.

John 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

No way they do not.



Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.



I am not of the general mass. Are you trying to offend, you know,like the general mass does?


Yeah but we are on a debate site to debate.


I always discuss civilly.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Thank you for the verse.

It is well known and too biblical that the ”jew" misdirected very many. It is also known by some, including you that the jew has been spread throughout the world and that there is no jew or gentile any longer as all have gone astray.

The Quran in no way teaches another way or savior.

I am very aware that you are not of the mass or their herd mentality, to which I am grateful. I really was not attempting to offend. You know how I am about that, and that I believe it makes profitable conversation impossible.

I'm curious now as to why you initially stated that salvation is of the jew. Could you explain it please?

Jesus the Christ of GOD preached mercy and forgiveness and equity, didn't He.



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[God's Truth]

Thank you for the verse.

It is well known and too biblical that the ”jew" misdirected very many.

What does that have to do with the Jews who were right?

It is also known by some, including you that the jew has been spread throughout the world and that there is no jew or gentile any longer as all have gone astray.

I am talking about the Jews who are in the Bible, such as Abraham, Isaac, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.

The Quran in no way teaches another way or savior.

Are you saying the Qur’an teaches Jesus Christ being the Son of God and dying for our sins?

I am very aware that you are not of the mass or their herd mentality, to which I am grateful. I really was not attempting to offend. You know how I am about that, and that I believe it makes profitable conversation impossible.

I'm curious now as to why you initially stated that salvation is of the jew. Could you explain it please?

Jesus the Christ of GOD preached mercy and forgiveness and equity, didn't He.

There is only one God and His Son is blood related to David and his mother was a Jewish virgin. He died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. If one is not believing that then they have another Jesus, a false Jesus and is not saved.

 

[popsthebuilder]

What does that have to do with the Jews who were right?


I am talking about the Jews who are in the Bible, such as Abraham, Isaac, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.


Are you saying the Qur’an teaches Jesus Christ being the Son of God and dying for our sins?




There is only one God and His Son is blood related to David and his mother was a Jewish virgin. He died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. If one is not believing that then they have another Jesus, a false Jesus and is not saved.

I'm saying that the teachings of the Christ are similar to the teachings in the Quran; mercy, forgiveness, and equity, humility, kindness.

The teachings of the Christ are what I am speaking about, not who are what the Christ was as man.

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[God's Truth]

I'm saying that the teachings of the Christ are similar to the teachings in the Quran; mercy, forgiveness, and equity, humility, kindness.

The teachings of the Christ are what I am speaking about, not who are what the Christ was as man.

You didn't say they believe the same Jesus?

Do you not believe one has to go through Jesus to get saved and stay saved?

 

[lifeisgood]

Why are you talking as if anyone thinks the Muslims believe Jesus Christ is God?

Pops, do you really think that the Muslims believe Jesus is the Jesus of the Bible?

They think the whole Bible is corrupt, they don't even believe Jesus died for our sins.

You also need to go study a little bit about Islam.

 

[Right Divider]

You also need to go study a little bit about Islam.

So do you.

 

[lifeisgood]

My only point was that according to the Quran; Jesus is the Messiah.

You said it was not; according to all muslims.

I am not going to go over it with you again popsthebuilder.

I contend only, that the Quran refutes you and it is the core sacred text of Islam.

So, I quoted from ISLAM SACRED books and you reject them.

I am not speaking on the behalf of any person what so ever. I am speaking according to the words of the core sacred texts of both Christianity and Islam.

Isa is not the Jesus of the Bible; therefore, not the Messiah of the Bible.
Allah is not the God of the Bible.

Muslims are NOT assured of salvation.

What else do you want?

I did not say that any sect of Muslims was correct or true; nor would I say such of any particular sect or division of Christianity.

So?

The Bible never calls GOD three parts only whole when added together within one vessel. The Bible never claims the vessel to be GOD almighty. Jesus never claimed to be GOD almighty, but that the Spirit dwelled in Him wholly and fully.

The Bible talks about God as a plurality. That you do not accept what the Bible says that is something you will have to take with God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).

Why don't we discuss what you believe to be contradictions about the nature of GOD and Jesus between the two books if you insist on continuing along this line of reasoning at all. Honest civil discourse interests me. Conjecture, and preconceived notions based on ignorance coupled with the pride and greed of man do not.

I quote from SACRED sources from ISLAM. You reject their sources and you want to discuss Islam with me? You started on the wrong foot already.

 

[lifeisgood]

The Quran and the Bible teach the same thing for the same reason; mercy and equity are best for all, and the only righteous judgement for man to make upon man.

That tells me everything I need to know about your beliefs, popsthebuilder.

 

[lifeisgood]

So do you.

Absolutely!

 

[jaybird]

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

what did this mean to the Jews that proclaimed this everyday? why was it so important to them?

i grew up in a very conservative Baptist church in rural Arkansas, very serious about the faith, yet we almost never proclaimed the Shema. lots of emphasis on the Shema back in the old days, not so much emphasis on it today in mainstream Christianity, i wonder why?

 

[God's Truth]

You also need to go study a little bit about Islam.

Oh be quiet, you don't know what I know and what I need.

 

[lifeisgood]

Oh be quiet, you don't know what I know and what I need.

Uffff! I guess the coffee tasted horrible today.