The Trinity

[glorydaz]

The FATHER is the ONE AND ONLY GOD.

That is what SCRIPTURES say.

Great....then you are claiming that the Son and Holy Spirit are not God.

We have you on record as being WRONG. :thumb:

 

[God's Truth]

Great....then you are claiming that the Son and Holy Spirit are not God.

We have you on record as being WRONG. :thumb:

The scriptures say the Father is the one and only God.

 

[God's Truth]

But you said He was the Father. So which is He?

The three are one and the same.

 

[popsthebuilder]

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Three that bear record. Not three separate persons or people that combine to make the fullness of GOD.

any more?

 

[Lon]

You believe Jesus was God come down from Heaven to be a man.

However God came down from Heaven to unite with a man at His baptism who God raised up by His word

Christ went to the cross as the man that He is, not as a God, for he never was God, only His Father was.



LA

Use scriptures behind each of your increasingly convoluted statements to even have a Trinitarian be able to follow such thinking. It is foreign to anyone who reads John 1:1 as we do. "...was with AND was God. See, we see the Lord Jesus Christ as somehow both, because that is what it says. You do too, you simply, in your mind, made 'word' quadrinity where the "Word" is with God and was God THEN the Word becomes Jesus. You guys really don't think things through. You settle for simpleton answers that when pressed, don't make sense. Look at it! It is a mess. ONLY the triune view embraces all scriptures and then endeavors to go no further. The RC calls it a mystery. All we Trinitarians believe somehow God is One, yet Father, Son, Spirit are/is Him. The 'are/is' will often confuse in one trying to explain, as is evident in this thread, but it is because when a Modalist presses us, we look Unitarian, and when a Unitarian presses us, it looks modal. If you understand that, you'll understand why we say you are both 'half' right. Try to realize we agree with about half of what you are saying but rejecting anything beyond scriptural revelation. "Figuring it out" on your own is a nono. That is what lands you in cult heresy corners.

 

[Lon]

Three that bear record. Not three separate persons or people that combine to make the fullness of GOD.

any more?

Agree BUT it then says 'these three are one.' Somehow these three are one because that is what it says. If you 'presume' how they are one, without the benefit of being told explicitly, you are delving into the area of speculation instead of biblical theology. -Lon

 

[glorydaz]

Please show where the Bible says GOD is three anything, let alone persons or people.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Three that bear record. Not three separate persons or people that combine to make the fullness of GOD.

any more?

See, I give you what you demand, you read it, reject it, and want more. Many posters have wasted hours showing you what is written, but it's never good enough. It will never be enough. If the word, itself, doesn't convince you....nothing can.

It seems you are rebrobate....never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Timothy 3:7-9
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.​

 

[popsthebuilder]

Agree BUT it then says 'these three are one.' Somehow these three are one because that is what it says. If you 'presume' how they are one, without the benefit of being told explicitly, you are delving into the area of speculation instead of biblical theology. -Lon

Then why do trinitarians presume that the three are separate when they are said to be one? And why do they seem to presume that all three are persons or people? Why do they presume that the begotten (formed/ created) Son is literally coeternal with the almighty Father? Why do they presume Jesus in the flesh was the utter fullness of GOD when scripture tells us that GOD is eternal, invisible, spirit, and that Jesus was (in the flesh) begotten, temporal, not all knowing, and explicitly, repeatedly stated that He was not GOD almighty, but of GOD almighty? Lastly, why do they seem to presume that being of GOD is equal to GOD?

you should all be able to notice that the Word was not flesh when It WAS GOD. neither is He who sets at the right hand of GOD either flesh or the fullness of GOD.

Jesus the Christ of GOD didn't make sincere supplication to himself, and He didn't do it to show others how to pray to Himself.

 

[popsthebuilder]

See, I give you what you demand, you read it, reject it, and want more. Many posters have wasted hours showing you what is written, but it's never good enough. It will never be enough. If the word, itself, doesn't convince you....nothing can.

It seems you are rebrobate....never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Timothy 3:7-9
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.​

No; actually you add to the sacred texts and pretend you don't, but.... Whatever. I won't call you reprobate; I wish we would come to a harmonious accord, but that doesn't seem to be your motive at all....with any. Ole bighead syndrome, seems like.

 

[glorydaz]

No; actually you add to the sacred texts and pretend you don't, but.... Whatever. I won't call you reprobate; I wish we would come to a harmonious accord, but that doesn't seem to be your motive at all....with any. Ole bighead syndrome, seems like.

Then you should be able to prove where I have added to the sacred texts. I'LL WAIT. opcorn:



What fellowship does light have with darkness? You expect too much. First you must come into the light before you will find harmony with any believer. Wishing and hoping and dreaming is not believing. Try that.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Then you should be able to prove where I have added to the sacred texts. I'LL WAIT. opcorn:



What fellowship does light have with darkness? You expect too much. First you must come into the light before you will find harmony with any believer. Wishing and hoping and dreaming is not believing. Try that.

Your proof text said nothing about GOD specifically, but those who keep record. They say absolutely nothing of any person or people.

You giving that texts as a proof text of GOD being three to for people and then claiming I'm reprobate because I don't agree with your perception of a singular verse is all the proof any should need.

In short; you add the word person when it isn't there. And you also make GOD of three to four people when you say that all combine within the flesh body of Christ before the resurrection.

Didn't have to wait too long did you?

 

[glorydaz]

Your proof text said nothing about GOD specifically, but those who keep record. They say absolutely nothing of any person or people.

Yeah, I know. It's too much to expect that you might know the Father is God, and the Word is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. What was I thinking? :nono:

 

[popsthebuilder]

Yeah, I know. It's too much to expect that you might know the Father is God, and the Word is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. What was I thinking? :nono:

I understand them to be one and the same Spirit, and never said otherwise.

You say they are separate people who are actually the same person who all dwell within a temporal body.

 

[glorydaz]

I understand them to be one and the same Spirit, and never said otherwise.

You say they are separate people who are actually the same person who all dwell within a temporal body.

I don't say they are "people" at all. You're the one who keeps saying "people".

Truly, talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. :think:


You say "them"......... "Them" what? What are "them"? What form do these "them" take?

 

[Lon]

Not sure if these are questions are accusations. I'll assume they are questions about scripture and give reasons for them:

Then why do trinitarians presume that the three are separate when they are said to be one?

I'm way more patient with most modalists/Oneness. At least they don't have a god and a lesser god as Unitarians do. Two gods is really hard to biblically substantiate with Isaiah 43:11; 45:5. John 10:30**+* "I and the Father are(is) one" is one among many verses that differentiate between Father, Son, and Spirit (all God). How do I reconcile Isaiah 43:11; 45:5 and John 10:30? :idunno: I think "I don't know" is a better answer. "Jesus isn't God" is not a good answer. I agree with you, He is not the Father AND the Father is God, but John 1:1; 2:28 says He is God, somehow, too. I say 'somehow' you say 'a created god, or something such. While I appreciate you trying to keep his godhood, it tramples, again, Isaiah 43:11; 45:5

And why do they seem to presume that all three are persons or people?

Good question. "Person" 'People' are often used interchangeably. For me: "Tri-" DOES mean 3 of something. Persons? Beings? 3 something, but what is the best word to convey such? It is hard to explain God with words other than 'God' too. "YHWH" means 'God.' I'd appreciate your further comments or questions on this.

Why do they presume that the begotten (formed/ created) Son is literally coeternal with the almighty Father?

John 1:1 "...was with...God." John 17:5 Psalm 90:2 With Colossians 1:16-18 --> From eternity to eternity, 'you (who created) are God. Hebrews 7:3;13:8

Why do they presume Jesus in the flesh was the utter fullness of GOD when scripture tells us that GOD is eternal, invisible, spirit,

Philippians 2:6-7 1 Timothy 3:16 John 1:1,14

and that Jesus was (in the flesh) begotten, temporal,

2 Corinthians 13:3,4

not all knowing

Philippians 2:7 Matthew 20:28 2 Corinthians 8:9

and explicitly, repeatedly stated that He was not GOD almighty, but of GOD almighty?

You'll have to show me. I am playing dumb a little, being familiar with some verses people use, but you'll have to prove scriptures say this, for me. If you can EVER prove such a thing, there will be, would be NO Trinitarians. He once said "Only God is 'good,'(Matthew 10:18)" and asked "why do you call me good?" John 10:11 :think:
Almighty? Matthew 28:18 :think: compare with Philippians 2:7 prior?

Lastly, why do they seem to presume that being of GOD is equal to GOD?

John 5:23; 10:30; 17:5

you should all be able to notice that the Word was not flesh when It WAS GOD.

Yes agree, however consider for a moment: Genesis 1:27 In this sense, He was something of us, simply because we are something of Him and He was ALWAYS that. I agree something unique happened when God became a man. I have a hard time, however, adequately explaining what scripture does not say AND I try to ensure whatever I say is true, can be shown clearly true, from scriptures.

neither is He who sets at the right hand of GOD either flesh or the fullness of GOD.

Colossians 1:19; 2:9 John 3:35; 16:15; 17:10

Jesus the Christ of GOD didn't make sincere supplication to himself

John 10:30 The Son talked to the Father, the Father to the Son. Constraining prayer to supplication should be understood in light of Philippians 2:7

He didn't do it to show others how to pray to Himself.

:think: Luke 11:1-13
He did at times. I think you are meaning "He was praying to the Father." Agreed.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I don't say they are "people" at all. You're the one who keeps saying "people".

Truly, talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. :think:


You say "them"......... "Them" what? What are "them"? What form do these "them" take?

Not the form of a person (created/ begotten). You've actually argued with me in the past that they are persons, and I'm pretty sure being a person is a human trait.

They are the same Spirit.

GOD is unknowable except by the means IT wills. And IT wills that we (man/ creation) know HIM through the perfect man, saviour, Son, and way, Jesus the Christ of GOD.

I agree that GOD can be perceived through separate perspectives, but I do not agree that these are separate in that they are different in any way but that of something isn't that something.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Not sure if these are questions are accusations. I'll assume they are questions about scripture and give reasons for them:
I'm way more patient with most modalists/Oneness. At least they don't have a god and a lesser god as Unitarians do. Two gods is really hard to biblically substantiate with Isaiah 43:11; 45:5. John 10:30**+* "I and the Father are(is) one" is one among many verses that differentiate between Father, Son, and Spirit (all God). How do I reconcile Isaiah 43:11; 45:5 and John 10:30? :idunno: I think "I don't know" is a better answer. "Jesus isn't God" is not a good answer. I agree with you, He is not the Father AND the Father is God, but John 1:1; 2:28 says He is God, somehow, too. I say 'somehow' you say 'a created god, or something such. While I appreciate you trying to keep his godhood, it tramples, again, Isaiah 43:11; 45:5


Good question. "Person" 'People' are often used interchangeably. For me: "Tri-" DOES mean 3 of something. Persons? Beings? 3 something, but what is the best word to convey such? It is hard to explain God with words other than 'God' too. "YHWH" means 'God.' I'd appreciate your further comments or questions on this.


John 1:1 "...was with...God." John 17:5 Psalm 90:2 With Colossians 1:16-18 --> From eternity to eternity, 'you (who created) are God. Hebrews 7:3;13:8

Philippians 2:6-7 1 Timothy 3:16 John 1:1,14

2 Corinthians 13:3,4

Philippians 2:7 Matthew 20:28 2 Corinthians 8:9

You'll have to show me. I am playing dumb a little, being familiar with some verses people use, but you'll have to prove scriptures say this, for me. If you can EVER prove such a thing, there will be, would be NO Trinitarians. He once said "Only God is 'good,'(Matthew 10:18)" and asked "why do you call me good?" John 10:11 :think:
Almighty? Matthew 28:18 :think: compare with Philippians 2:7 prior?


John 5:23; 10:30; 17:5



Yes agree, however consider for a moment: Genesis 1:27 In this sense, He was something of us, simply because we are something of Him and He was ALWAYS that. I agree something unique happened when God became a man. I have a hard time, however, adequately explaining what scripture does not say AND I try to ensure whatever I say is true, can be shown clearly true, from scriptures.

Colossians 1:19; 2:9 John 3:35; 16:15; 17:10

John 10:30 The Son talked to the Father, the Father to the Son. Constraining prayer to supplication should be understood in light of Philippians 2:7

:think: Luke 11:1-13
He did at times. I think you are meaning "He was praying to the Father." Agreed.

Not sure if these are questions are accusations.

I thought I had denoted questions and an unassuming tone with the word "seem(s)", and question marks.
I'm glad you were able to make the inference somewhat correctly, though. Moving on.

I'm way more patient with most modalists/Oneness. At least they don't have a god and a lesser god as Unitarians do. Two gods is really hard to biblically substantiate with

I am guessing that you consider me one of those two divisions? Which, if you don't mind. I read up on the two some time ago, but don't recall Unitarians standing out as claiming demigods, or lesser gods or what have you. It is my firm belief that one can consider many things to be "gods" as long as they grasp that all is of the One Creator GOD.

Isaiah 43:11

Isaiah 43: 3. For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee. 6. I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; 7. Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. 8. Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. 9. Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. 10. Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. 12. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. 13. Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? 14. Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships. 15. I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King. 16. Thus saith the LORD, which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters; 17. Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise: they are extinct, they are quenched as tow. 18. Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. 19. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. 20. The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. 21. This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise. 22. But thou hast not called upon me, O Jacob; but thou hast been weary of me, O Israel. 23. Thou hast not brought me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings; neither hast thou honoured me with thy sacrifices. I have not caused thee to serve with an offering, nor wearied thee with incense. 24. Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money, neither hast thou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices: but thou hast made me to serve with thy sins, thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities. 25. I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. 26. Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified. 27. Thy first father hath sinned, and thy teachers have transgressed against me. 28. Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse, and Israel to reproaches.

Isaiah 45:5

Isaiah 45: 1. Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; 2. I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: 3. And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 4. For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. 5. I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6. That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. 8. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. 9. Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? 10. Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth? 11. Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12. I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. 13. I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts. 15. Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour. 16. They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols. 17. But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. 18. For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. 19. I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. 20. Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. 21. Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24. Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. 25. In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

I would agree that those passages show, without a doubt, that the Word, and man and heaven and all there of and there from is all of GOD alone. That in no way way makes all things GOD. there is a word for that but it isn't Christian. I think it's pantheistic. Moving on. Oh yeah....i apologize for the exceptional amount of scripture, but it is indeed pertinent to your point and needed to maintain context in my opinion. And also; thank you for the change in demeanour, it will be at very least, reciprocated.

. John 10:30

John 10: 1. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 7. Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 9. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. 24. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30. I and my Father are one. 33. The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

**+* "I and the Father are(is) one" is one among many verses that differentiate between Father, Son, and Spirit (all God). How do I reconcile Isaiah 43:11; 45:5 and John 10:30? :idunno: I think "I don't know" is a better answer. "Jesus isn't God" is not a good answer.

There is no mental Gymnastics needed to grasp that Jesus being one with GOD is due to his following GOD. That doesn't mean he followed himself. Him being the door and the way and the Shepard to and for GOD isn't the same as Him literally being wholly GOD as flesh. That doesn't mean the Spirit didn't wholly fill the Temple of GOD though, to the glory of GOD.

I agree with you, He is not the Father AND the Father is God, but John 1:1; 2:28 says He is God, somehow, too. I say 'somehow' you say 'a created god, or something such.

Is a word spoken and of? Is begotten formed and created?

While I appreciate you trying to keep his godhood, it tramples, again, Isaiah 43:11; 45:5

What tramples the words ascribed to blessed Isaiah and John is that some want to equate man to GOD due to tradition and seeming lack of discernment and/ or comprehension due to said tradition brought about by the conjecture or outright deception of others.

Good question. "Person" 'People' are often used interchangeably. For me: "Tri-" DOES mean 3 of something. Persons? Beings? 3 something, but what is the best word to convey such?

perceivable truths; but that in no way makes the begotten Son coetetnal with the invisible Creator GOD.

It is hard to explain God with words other than 'God' too. "YHWH" means 'God.' I'd appreciate your further comments or questions on this.

GOD can be expressed in nearly limitless symbolism. I believe explaining man, or rather; the placement, potential, duty, and destiny there of, by the will, and to the glory of GOD, to be much more important. To be clear; I think as long as one references GOD in a respectful manner that is meant to convey the truthful nature there of, then they are alright.




John 1:1 "...was with...God." John 17:5 Psalm 90:2 With Colossians 1:16-18 --> From eternity to eternity, 'you (who created) are God. Hebrews 7:3;13:8

Philippians 2:6-7 1 Timothy 3:16 John 1:1,14

2 Corinthians 13:3,4

Philippians 2:7 Matthew 20:28 2 Corinthians 8:9

You'll have to show me. I am playing dumb a little, being familiar with some verses people use, but you'll have to prove scriptures say this, for me. If you can EVER prove such a thing, there will be, would be NO Trinitarians. He once said "Only God is 'good,'(Matthew 10:18)" and asked "why do you call me good?" John 10:11 :think:
Almighty? Matthew 28:18 :think: compare with Philippians 2:7 prior?


John 5:23; 10:30; 17:5

Yes agree, however consider for a moment: Genesis 1:27 In this sense, He was something of us, simply because we are something of Him and He was ALWAYS that.

What? That doesn't make very good sense to me. The word "of" denotes division. A peice of a whole, and if what you are saying is right then the culmination of creation put together would equal GOD. Thqt is very wrong on many levels, but the simplest to convey is that for such to be true then that would mean that the fullness of GOD was expended in the creation of existence.

I agree something unique happened when God became a man. I have a hard time, however, adequately explaining what scripture does not say AND I try to ensure whatever I say is true, can be shown clearly true, from scriptures.

Colossians 1:19; 2:9 John 3:35; 16:15; 17:10

John 10:30 The Son talked to the Father, the Father to the Son. Constraining prayer to supplication should be understood in light of Philippians 2:7

I wasn't constraining prayer to supplication; I was speaking specifically about the prayers that were sincere supplication to GOD.



:think: Luke 11:1-13
He did at times. I think you are meaning "He was praying to the Father." Agreed.

sorry if a scrambled mess; I'm trying to get used to adjustments made on app, and also just finally realized how to quote people....sorta (or not). I hope it worked. (but it didn't)

 

[God's Truth]

Agree BUT it then says 'these three are one.' Somehow these three are one because that is what it says. If you 'presume' how they are one, without the benefit of being told explicitly, you are delving into the area of speculation instead of biblical theology. -Lon

The three are one because they are one and the same.

The trinitarians claim the three are distinct and separate and together make one, but that does not make sense. Every time the trinitarians have to explain their doctrine against a scripture they say, 'Oh that was Jesus speaking', and, 'Oh that was the Father speaking'. What don't you get that the Father is not different and separate from the Son and the Holy Spirit because it is Him in each of those persons? The Father came as a Son and the Holy Spirit is His Spirit that He sends forth.

 

[God's Truth]

See, I give you what you demand, you read it, reject it, and want more. Many posters have wasted hours showing you what is written, but it's never good enough. It will never be enough. If the word, itself, doesn't convince you....nothing can.

It seems you are rebrobate....never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Timothy 3:7-9
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.​

You have been given many scriptures and it is you who does not understand.

God is One.

One even means the same.

You say there are three different and separate.

That is against the truth.

 

[God's Truth]

Then why do trinitarians presume that the three are separate when they are said to be one? And why do they seem to presume that all three are persons or people? Why do they presume that the begotten (formed/ created) Son is literally coeternal with the almighty Father? Why do they presume Jesus in the flesh was the utter fullness of GOD when scripture tells us that GOD is eternal, invisible, spirit, and that Jesus was (in the flesh) begotten, temporal, not all knowing, and explicitly, repeatedly stated that He was not GOD almighty, but of GOD almighty? Lastly, why do they seem to presume that being of GOD is equal to GOD?

you should all be able to notice that the Word was not flesh when It WAS GOD. neither is He who sets at the right hand of GOD either flesh or the fullness of GOD.

Jesus the Christ of GOD didn't make sincere supplication to himself, and He didn't do it to show others how to pray to Himself.

All humans have a spirit within them, and when saved they also receive the Holy Spirit.

That Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father and Jesus the Son.

Trinitarians claim the Holy Spirit is a proxy Spirit for the Father and Son.

However, everyone, whether a spirit or a human IS THEIR SPIRIT.

God the Father IS SPIRIT and the Holy Spirit is not His proxy.

Jesus Christ is the Son and his Spirit is the Spirit of the one and only God the Father.

The Holy Spirit is not his proxy divine Spirit while his man spirit lies dormant, as how it coincides with what gd preaches.

The trinitarian doctrine gets out of being able to explain their doctrine by saying no one can understand and it is not explainable, yet gd and others here try to explain and make a mockery of their own doctrine.

However, I explain the truth just fine.