That would include Scooby Doo...
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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That would include Scooby Doo...
Right Divider
Body part
keypurr needs to believe the Word of God and quit leaning on his "secret knowledge" that he's so proud of.
Here is some of what poor keypurr believes:
- God made a photo copy of Himself (express image).
- The "Christ" (that photo copy) took over the body of Jesus (he never says where the spirit that was originally in Jesus was sent).
- That the LORD Jesus Christ was "just a man" before the "Christ spirit" took him over.
keypurr
Well-known member
There is no "creature" in Colossians 1:15.
For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy;giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. - Colossians 1:9-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians1:9-18&version=NKJV
The word for "image" here means:
Both of those paragraphs are talking about Christ's preeminence. They are not saying nor are they implying that Christ was created.
God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. - Hebrews 1:1-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews1:1-4&version=NKJV
There's some meaning lost in the translation to english. Here is the greek:
And here are the meanings of "charakter" and "hypostaseos", respectively:
"radiance of His (the Father's) glory and exact expression of His (the Father's) substance"
Says the one who has turned his back on the church because he leans too much on his own understanding. You are the obstinate one, Keypurr. You refuse to even consider that you might be wrong.
I guess my KJV is wrong for it uses the word CREATURE to describe the son who is the image of God. Some translations say first of all CREATION. That still makes the son a creature not God.
You go to great lengths to twist what is written.
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The word used means both.
But because you're ignoring the CONTEXT, which is talking about Christ's preeminence, you can't see that the verse is better translated "creation." It's not calling him a created being. He is the firstborn, meaning he is the original, the source of sources, the uncaused cause, of all creation.
Keypurr, as I posted in the other thread, the perfect copy (aka "express image") of something is the thing itself.
A perfect copy of God is God.
God cannot create Himself. Therefore Jesus, the one who created all things, and without whom nothing was made that was made, is God.
Says the one who thinks that the ones who propagate the Scriptures (the church) is confused and doesn't know what it's talking about, and says the one who claims to have the Bible unraveled.
:thumb:
The word used means both.
But because you're ignoring the CONTEXT, which is talking about Christ's preeminence, you can't see that the verse is better translated "creation." It's not calling him a created being. He is the firstborn, meaning he is the original, the source of sources, the uncaused cause, of all creation.
Keypurr, as I posted in the other thread, the perfect copy (aka "express image") of something is the thing itself.
A perfect copy of God is God.
God cannot create Himself. Therefore Jesus, the one who created all things, and without whom nothing was made that was made, is God.
Says the one who thinks that the ones who propagate the Scriptures (the church) is confused and doesn't know what it's talking about, and says the one who claims to have the Bible unraveled.
Even though clear, he won't accept it for it interferes with his theology.
Right Divider
Body part
So you think that the subject person changes in every sentence of the passage?
You're either stupid or lying.
A little bit of both me thinks.
He thinks it always changes especially inside of a single verse.
Right Divider
Body part
He will try anything except the truth.
You can't even consider the possibility that you're wrong, can you?
keypurr
Well-known member
Its distorted friend. A image is not the real thing.
The express image God is not God, it is the image of.
When you look in the mirror you do not see you, you see an image of you. And it is not an express image for it does not feel and think like the real you.
The express image is a form of God, it is a creation. I have posted many verses to prove that point but most can not see it because if they do they will have to change their faith.
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keypurr
Well-known member
The word used means both.
But because you're ignoring the CONTEXT, which is talking about Christ's preeminence, you can't see that the verse is better translated "creation." It's not calling him a created being. He is the firstborn, meaning he is the original, the source of sources, the uncaused cause, of all creation.
Keypurr, as I posted in the other thread, the perfect copy (aka "express image") of something is the thing itself.
A perfect copy of God is God.
God cannot create Himself. Therefore Jesus, the one who created all things, and without whom nothing was made that was made, is God.
Says the one who thinks that the ones who propagate the Scriptures (the church) is confused and doesn't know what it's talking about, and says the one who claims to have the Bible unraveled.
Colossians 1:15
(ASV) who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
(BBE) Who is the image of the unseen God coming into existence before all living things;
(Bishops) Who is the image of the inuisible God, the first borne of all creatures.
(CEV) Christ is exactly like God, who cannot be seen. He is the first-born Son, superior to all creation.
(DRB) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(ESV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
(Geneva) Who is the image of the inuisible God, the first begotten of euery creature.
(GNB) Christ is the visible likeness of the invisible God. He is the first-born Son, superior to all created things.
(GW) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
(ISV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(KJV) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(NAS77) And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation.
(NASB) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
(NET.) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation,
(NIrV) Christ is the exact likeness of God, who can't be seen. He is first, and he is over all of creation.
(NIV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NRSV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
(NRSVA) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
(TNIV) The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(YLT) who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
Creature, Creations ARE NOT GOD.
keypurr
Well-known member
Except Jesus is not a creature nor a creation. He is the firstborn of creation. He is the uncaused cause of creation. He is the Preeminent One. He came before all things. That's what Colossians 1:9-18 is all about!
In fact I can, Keypurr. I can be proven wrong, and if so, then I will be forced to change what I believe, and I recognize that. You can't even consider the possibility that you can be wrong, let alone say that you will change your beliefs if you are proven wrong.
Keypurr, let's consider the cost of each of our beliefs, and the consequences of each, good and bad.
If you're right, and those who preach the triunity of God, like myself and others on this forum, are wrong, then most of the Christians for the past 2000 years have been worshipping a false god, and have misled millions of people to believing something that is not true, and the church leaders from the past two millennia will be in some pretty serious trouble.
On the other hand, if you're wrong, and we're right, you're the one who will be in trouble for being a false teacher, spreading lies about God as if they were truth, and in even more trouble for your arrogance, claiming that the church is wrong and that you somehow figured out what the Bible really says, you, some random person on the internet, who claims only a mere few decades of study compared to the two millennia of study by the church.
Keypurr, which seems more plausible:
1) You ending up at the correct interpretation of the Bible in only a few decades and the entire church and two thousand years of study being wrong?
OR
2) The church, the appointed authority of Scripture and it's two thousand years of study and research being correct (at least on the topic of the Triune God) and you and your mere decades of study leaning on your own understanding being wrong?
keypurr
Well-known member
If he is the firstborn of all creation that makes him a CREATURE.
I am ready to be judged by my Lord JR.
My head is not in the dirt like an ostrich. I have overcome the half truths that the churches push out. Jesus is the authority I choose to follow. I pray that the churches would do the same.
Churches are more of a business than most realize. They control what the Pastors have to teach. I served on the board so I know first hand what goes on. Do you wish toe a churchman or a Christian?
If they conflict what would you do?
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Once again, Keypurr, you have to have it explained to you that "firstborn of all creation" is NOT SAYING THAT HE WAS CREATED! IT'S TALKING ABOUT HIS PREEMINENCE!!! That's what the ENTIRE PASSAGE is about!
You keep pushing your head further and further into the dirt.
You slander the church without proof.
You don't have the authority to say what is right or wrong from scripture. You DO have the responsibility to read it and to know what is right.
AMEN! But don't forget that Jesus appointed teachers and leaders and ministers, to teach those in the congregation.
And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. - 1 Corinthians 12:28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians12:28&version=NKJV
And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. - Ephesians 4:11-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians4:11-16&version=NKJV
You don't have the authority to remove yourself from under their authority.
If someone conflicts with God's word, I take the side of God's word over them.
Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged.” - Romans 3:4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans3:4&version=NKJV
I let Scripture be the final authority.
keypurr
Well-known member
Your letting the church be your authority. Stop fooling yourself.
I take the authority to think for myself.
Your still at the starting line JR. You have a long road to explore.
But using your logic, name ANY IMAGE that is not a CREATION.
Start there.
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