The Trinity

[God's Truth]

If it fits, wear it proudly.

So, you agree with gt, that you need to help Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary by helping Him with your obedience, your works, etc., etc., etc. as if Jesus needs you to save you.

You don't even speak the truth about what I believe. Don't you have any shame?
Jesus saves those he wants to save, and he wants to save those who believe and obey.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.


What do you think? Do you think those who repent of their sins please Jesus more than those who do not?

You should follow your own admonition.

See here lifeisgood, you keep bringing me up to popsthebuilder as if I am a deterrent to the truth.

Those in Christ love each other so stop trying to get him to dislike me.

 

[Bright Raven]

He ascended into heaven before the Father and was given a Spiritual body, the same one he had before coming to earth.

Revelation 1:14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.

His resurrection was physical. https://carm.org/jesus-resurrection-was-physical

 

[God's Truth]

His resurrection was physical. https://.org/jesus-resurrection-was-physical

I don't go to links and debate carm. Carm is a Calvinist site, and, I want to debate you, not Matt Slick.

 

[Veritas veritate]

He ascended into heaven before the Father and was given a Spiritual body, the same one he had before coming to earth.

Revelation 1:14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.

He was not given a Spiritual body, the body that he already possesses is glorified. Notice how he asked Thomas to put his fingers into the holes in his hands and his hand into the hole in his side... Same body, but glorified.

 

[Bright Raven]

I don't go to links and debate carm. Carm is a Calvinist site, and, I want to debate you, not Matt Slick.

OK How many times was Jesus seen after the resurrection? What was His appearance? It was the same as when He walked and talked on the earth. The apostles saw the nail pierced hands and feet. He ate with them. What else do you need? Jesus is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever. We will see Him as He was seen.

 

[Rosenritter]

OK How many times was Jesus seen after the resurrection. What was His appearance? It was the same as when He walked and talked on the earth. The apostles saw the nail pierced hands and feet. He ate with them. What else do you need. Jesus is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever. We will see Him as He was seen.

I'm not looking for a debate, but is it possible that he sometimes had a different appearance? Two examples:

Luke 24:15-16 KJV
(15) And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
(16) But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

John 21:4-14 KJV
(4) But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
(5) Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
(6) And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
(7) Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
(8) And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.
(9) As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.
(10) Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.
(11) Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.
(12) Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.
(13) Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.
(14) This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.

In the first passage above, I can see how that might be Jesus having the same appearance, but their minds being blocked so as to not recognize him. But in the second instance, it seems as if they figured out who he was already, and even when they are close enough to share food, that they don't ask who he is because they already know. It sounds like he might have a different appearance in that instance.

 

[Veritas veritate]

Spoiler

The parable is talking about the call to salvation. The symbols it uses aren't even vague or controversial.
The king is God, the son is Jesus. The servants are those that preach his gospel. The gospel is a gospel of repentance and salvation to all who believe. The wedding feast is alluded to in other parable and prophecy, including the parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25 and Revelation 19.
Matthew 25:1 KJV
(1) Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
By the way, that's yet another parable (the parable of the ten virgins) that illustrates that regardless of calling, we can still be shut out out the marriage. You remember how this parable ends? But continuing,
Revelation 19:7-9 KJV
(7) Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
(8) And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
(9) And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Those that were bidden and did not come especially includes Israel, but likewise could apply to anyone. Those that were in the highways and byways and were received afterwards especially includes the Gentiles which were formerly unclean, but applies to anyone (if anyone can think of a category that might fall between the cracks, it fits here too.)
Acts 13:45-46 KJV
(45) But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
(46) Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
The wedding garments are the fine linen, clean and white, of the imputed righteous of Christ in his saints (see Rev 19 above.)
The people who are called to the feast, Jew or Gentile, male or female, slave or free, are individuals. The guest that was found without a wedding garment had not accepted the clothing that was supplied by the host. He was deemed unworthy and cast out from the wedding of the bride and the Lamb.

What I don't understand is 1) how you could say this is inapplicable, and 2) what other possible meaning you could come up with.

Has it occurred to you that the wedding in Matthew and Luke, and the wedding in Revelation have no connection other than they are based on the customs of the Jewish wedding?

The parable in Matthew and Luke is a parable that describes the Kingdom of God as it relates to the Abrahamic covenant. The wedding in Revelation describes an actual wedding and feast that will take place in the future.

In the case of Matthew and Luke, Jesus, as he was doing throughout all of his earthy ministry, was speaking to the Jews. This parable describes the rejection of the Messiah by the Jews and the engrafting of the Gentiles into the Abrahamic covenant; that the promise of God to Abraham concerning the blessing of all people through Abraham might be fulfilled. This is also the meaning of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

In the case of the wedding in Revelation, the Bridegroom is Jesus, the Bride is Israel, and the guests are the Gentile believers. Now I realize that many Christians think that the bride in Revelation includes the whole Church, but given every context, only Israel, God’s chosen people, fit the bride.

As for the word “soul” you need to look at the etymology of the English word, which originates around 975 BCE. It clearly only related to human beings, especially dead ones.

 

[God's Truth]

He was not given a Spiritual body, the body that he already possesses is glorified. Notice how he asked Thomas to put his fingers into the holes in his hands and his hand into the hole in his side... Same body, but glorified.

That shows that the SAME body was resurrected.

However, when Jesus went to the Father, he received his glorified body, a Spiritual body.

Think of Lazarus being raised from the dead. He was raised with the same flesh and blood body he had before dying.

Jesus was raised with the same body, but then was given a glorified Spiritual body.

 

[God's Truth]

OK How many times was Jesus seen after the resurrection? What was His appearance? It was the same as when He walked and talked on the earth. The apostles saw the nail pierced hands and feet. He ate with them. What else do you need? Jesus is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever. We will see Him as He was seen.

When Jesus ascended into heaven in the presence of the Father, he then was given a Spiritual body, the kind we will receive when he comes again.

 

[Veritas veritate]

I'm not looking for a debate, but is it possible that he sometimes had a different appearance? Two examples:

Luke 24:15-16 KJV
(15) And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
(16) But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

John 21:4-14 KJV
(4) But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
(5) Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
(6) And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
(7) Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
(8) And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.
(9) As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.
(10) Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.
(11) Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.
(12) Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.
(13) Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.
(14) This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.

In the first passage above, I can see how that might be Jesus having the same appearance, but their minds being blocked so as to not recognize him. But in the second instance, it seems as if they figured out who he was already, and even when they are close enough to share food, that they don't ask who he is because they already know. It sounds like he might have a different appearance in that instance.

The two writing styles are different. The author Luke was a physician and would have added the details about the eyes being held back. Notice how he specifically mentions the fact directly, while John puts it in there as a passing thought. The author John was fixated on showing the deity of Jesus Christ and simply passively mentions things that do not have that much weight in proving such. There is no indication that the two accounts did not happen similarly, only that the focus is put on that which each author thinks is important.

Great catch (no pun intended)

 

[Veritas veritate]

That shows that the SAME body was resurrected.

However, when Jesus went to the Father, he received his glorified body, a Spiritual body.

Think of Lazarus being raised from the dead. He was raised with the same flesh and blood body he had before dying.

Jesus was raised with the same body, but then was given a glorified Spiritual body.

At that point Jesus had already been to the Father, and came back with the same body. Notice how he would not let Mary touch him in the way because he had not yet ascended to his Father. (John 20:17) And then just a few verses later he tells Thomas to touch him...

Remember also the transfiguration on the mount. This is only speculation, and I try to avoid it as much as possible, but the description of Revelation seems as if it might be the glorified form that he had taken then, still in the same body.

 

[God's Truth]

At that point Jesus had already been to the Father, and came back with the same body. Notice how he would not let Mary touch him in the way because he had not yet ascended to his Father. (John 20:17)

Remember also the transfiguration on the mount. This is only speculation, and I try to avoid it as much as possible, but the description of Revelation seems as if it might be the glorified form that he had taken then, still in the same body.

Right, and you are talking about Jesus on earth after rising from the dead, and I am speaking of Jesus' body now in a glorified state.

 

[Bright Raven]

When Jesus ascended into heaven in the presence of the Father, he then was given a Spiritual body, the kind we will receive when he comes again.

Scripture please. Book, Chapter and Verse.

 

[Veritas veritate]

Right, and you are talking about Jesus on earth after rising from the dead, and I am speaking of Jesus' body now in a glorified state.

You need to stop moving the goalpost. Every time you are given evidence against your claim you change your claim just enough to try to make yourself still be correct. Just admit you are wrong in light of the evidence and grow!


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[popsthebuilder]

Never stopped anyone from joining any of the conversations. Popsthebuilder said he did not want to jump into the conversation but HE did it anyway all with HIS own two little hands and then HE and HE alone complained that WE HAD MADE HIM join the conversation. Go figure.

And obviously, if someone barges into a conversation in the middle to it and then mentions your name, no other alternative I have but to mention the name of the person that is being mentioned, in this case you, gt.

What? When did I complain about entering into a conversation to defend another whom you, without ceasing, continually verbally attack because the two of you don't agree?

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

 

[lifeisgood]

You need to stop moving the goalpost. Every time you are given evidence against your claim you change your claim just enough to try to make yourself still be correct. Just admit you are wrong in light of the evidence and grow!


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

gt is an expert in goalpost moving on the fly.

 

[lifeisgood]

What? When did I complain about entering into a conversation to defend another whom you, without ceasing, continually verbally attack because the two of you don't agree?

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popsthebuilder, you said somewhere in these 12,300+ responses that you did not want to butt in into the conversation between gt and myself, but you did it anyway. You then 'said' that we, gt and I, had made you butt into the conversation, even though you did not want to butt in.

You and gt just taught me something else.

 

[God's Truth]

Scripture please. Book, Chapter and Verse.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.


Jesus said in the Father's presence and same glory as before.

 

[God's Truth]

You need to stop moving the goalpost. Every time you are given evidence against your claim you change your claim just enough to try to make yourself still be correct. Just admit you are wrong in light of the evidence and grow!


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Prove it.

 

[God's Truth]

popsthebuilder, you said somewhere in these 12,300+ responses that you did not want to butt in into the conversation between gt and myself, but you did it anyway. You then 'said' that we, gt and I, had made you butt into the conversation, even though you did not want to butt in.

You and gt just taught me something else.

I don't believe you.