The Trinity

[Rosenritter]

Not a trick question. Can an innocent mind doubt God? The answer is no. Disobedience is Evil and thus the knowledge of good and evil is required for mankind to obey.

Innocence knows that God is Truthful. Only maliciousness would plant the idea in the innocent mind of children that Hod lies.

To follow Law, Good and Evil must be known.

Did Adam and Eve know evil to disobey God before Genesis 3?

Who swayed their innocent minds towards evil and who does God hold responsible for sin?

Hint. 1 John 3:8

In one sense of the word, I would say an innocent mind can doubt God. Adam and Eve were as innocent as they come. They were untouched by evil, save for a lie and a suggestion from the serpent to Eve. Can you say that anyone else who ever lived started with such a clean slate? Perfectly innocent, and come the first test, they doubted. Adam and Eve were without the knowledge of good and evil at that point, or in other words, innocent of that knowledge.They chose not to remain innocent, rather to choose knowledge of good and evil.

The alternative would have been to have chosen to remain exclusively within the tree of life, not by knowledge of the true difference between good and evil, but in faith. They didn't need to know good and evil to follow the law, they could have chosen to follow the law in faith. They didn't have to make an informed decision, they could have chosen the faithful decision.

Did they know evil before Genesis 3? Not in the sense as the word is used there, I wouldn't say. They had no earthly idea what evil really entailed, of what would happen if they (mankind and the serpent) were to inherit the world to do with as they chose.

 

[glorydaz]

Idiot.

Yep, exactly what I thought when you first brought it up.

 

[Nang]

Explain please. "Do not eat of the tree" is the only recorded commandment from Eden. How do you see "the same essence" in the "decalogue?"

The command was believe God's word, to live, and turn away from what is forbidden.

These commands remain in place to this day. . .

Love God and live.

Unbelief brings death.

The Ten Commandments stand on these original principles, which prove to be everlasting Truth.

 

[Nang]

Adam wasn't under the Old Covenant either. Adam lived and died before Moses was ever born, before there was a Mount Sinai.

The commandments given to A&E revealed the moral and holy standards of God. They came in covenant form. God promised life for obedience, and promised death for disobedience. Genesis 2:16-17

This is the Covenant of Works that Adam broke.

The new Covenant of Grace was promised in Genesis 3:15, which the promised Saviour (the last Adam) kept.

 

[Nang]

In one sense of the word, I would say an innocent mind can doubt God. Adam and Eve were as innocent as they come. They were untouched by evil, save for a lie and a suggestion from the serpent to Eve. Can you say that anyone else who ever lived started with such a clean slate? Perfectly innocent, and come the first test, they doubted. Adam and Eve were without the knowledge of good and evil at that point, or in other words, innocent of that knowledge.They chose not to remain innocent, rather to choose knowledge of good and evil.

The alternative would have been to have chosen to remain exclusively within the tree of life, not by knowledge of the true difference between good and evil, but in faith. They didn't need to know good and evil to follow the law, they could have chosen to follow the law in faith. They didn't have to make an informed decision, they could have chosen the faithful decision.

Did they know evil before Genesis 3? Not in the sense as the word is used there, I wouldn't say. They had no earthly idea what evil really entailed, of what would happen if they (mankind and the serpent) were to inherit the world to do with as they chose.

Adam was told by God that disobedience would result in the evil of death. Adam acted knowledgeably; not ignorantly.

 

[7Spirits]

In one sense of the word, I would say an innocent mind can doubt God. Adam and Eve were as innocent as they come. They were untouched by evil, save for a lie and a suggestion from the serpent to Eve. Can you say that anyone else who ever lived started with such a clean slate? Perfectly innocent, and come the first test, they doubted. Adam and Eve were without the knowledge of good and evil at that point, or in other words, innocent of that knowledge.They chose not to remain innocent, rather to choose knowledge of good and evil.

The alternative would have been to have chosen to remain exclusively within the tree of life, not by knowledge of the true difference between good and evil, but in faith. They didn't need to know good and evil to follow the law, they could have chosen to follow the law in faith. They didn't have to make an informed decision, they could have chosen the faithful decision.

Did they know evil before Genesis 3? Not in the sense as the word is used there, I wouldn't say. They had no earthly idea what evil really entailed, of what would happen if they (mankind and the serpent) were to inherit the world to do with as they chose.

Innocence or Malevolence?

The guilt of the matter is on that which was the most cunning of all wild beasts. The innocent must not be judged. That which knew evil brought forth evil.

 

[Rosenritter]

Adam was told by God that disobedience would result in the evil of death. Adam acted knowledgeably; not ignorantly.

There's a lot more evil in the world that the fact that people eventually die.

 

[Rosenritter]

The command was believe God's word, to live, and turn away from what is forbidden.

These commands remain in place to this day. . .

Love God and live.

Unbelief brings death.

The Ten Commandments stand on these original principles, which prove to be everlasting Truth.

Nang, the only comparison between the two is that they share a "thou shalt not."

 

[7Spirits]

Adam was told by God that disobedience would result in the evil of death. Adam acted knowledgeably; not ignorantly.

It is interesting that you judge mankind when God judged the ruler of the world. Who does the book of John say was Judged?

Who did the Judged judge?

Accuser of the brethren? Revelation 12:10

 

[7Spirits]

Nang, the only comparison between the two is that they share a "thou shalt not."

Yes

 

[7Spirits]

Yep, exactly what I thought when you first brought it up.

Yes.

 

[glorydaz]

In one sense of the word, I would say an innocent mind can doubt God. Adam and Eve were as innocent as they come. They were untouched by evil, save for a lie and a suggestion from the serpent to Eve. Can you say that anyone else who ever lived started with such a clean slate? Perfectly innocent, and come the first test, they doubted. Adam and Eve were without the knowledge of good and evil at that point, or in other words, innocent of that knowledge.They chose not to remain innocent, rather to choose knowledge of good and evil.

The alternative would have been to have chosen to remain exclusively within the tree of life, not by knowledge of the true difference between good and evil, but in faith. They didn't need to know good and evil to follow the law, they could have chosen to follow the law in faith. They didn't have to make an informed decision, they could have chosen the faithful decision.

Did they know evil before Genesis 3? Not in the sense as the word is used there, I wouldn't say. They had no earthly idea what evil really entailed, of what would happen if they (mankind and the serpent) were to inherit the world to do with as they chose.

I don't think it's anywhere near that complicated. Children are just as innocent as Adam and Eve were, and it's the choosing evil over good that is the eating of the fruit of the tree. 1 John 2:16

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.​

Adam and Eve were created with a conscience just as we all have. They were told not to eat of a certain tree (the law came) and it was the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life which proves they had a conscience. They coveted what they were told they could not have.

Romans 7:7-8 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.​

 

[Bright Raven]

:thumb:

 

[Nang]

It is interesting that you judge mankind when God judged the ruler of the world. Who does the book of John say was Judged?

Who did the Judged judge?

Accuser of the brethren? Revelation 12:10

God cursed both devil and mankind with enmity against Him and each other.

This curse effects all God's creation, and only produces death.

Care to reference what you are pontificating about in the book of John?

(Ever taken a debate course?)

 

[Nang]

I don't think it's anywhere near that complicated. Children are just as innocent as Adam and Eve were, and it's the choosing evil over good that is the eating of the fruit of the tree. 1 John 2:16

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.​

Adam and Eve were created with a conscience just as we all have. They were told not to eat of a certain tree (the law came) and it was the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life which proves they had a conscience. They coveted what they were told they could not have.

Romans 7:7-8 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.​

The events did not prove they had a GOOD conscience . . .

A&E did not believe God, showed NO love for God, and refused to serve God's holiness.

A&E only revealed a GUILTY conscience.

You make their disobedience (and the global ramifications from it) seem like just a trivial mistake.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The events did not prove they had a GOOD conscience . . .

A&E did not believe God, showed NO love for God, and refused to serve God's holiness.

A&E only revealed a GUILTY conscience.

You make their disobedience (and the global ramifications from it) seem like just a trivial mistake.

GD didn't say they had a good conscience or a bad conscience, just that they had a conscience.

 

[Nang]

GD didn't say they had a good conscience or a bad conscience, just that they had a conscience.

A "conscience" is knowing good versus bad.

Adam was created good, walked with God, and probably possessed a human intelligence we have no measure of. Adam was also instructed in good and bad, and warned by God, disobedience produced death. All this before he ate of the forbidden tree.



Which produced a VERY GUILTY conscience.

So Godly promises, providence, and base sentient knowledge ("conscience") did not prevent Adam from consciously opposing God's Word, which demonstrated the lack of belief, love, limitations, and holiness not inherent in a mutable creature.

IOW's created beings are not God.

 

[JudgeRightly]

A "conscience" is knowing good versus bad.

Adam was created good, walked with God, and probably possessed a human intelligence we have no measure of. Adam was also instructed in good and bad, and warned by God, disobedience produced death. All this before he ate of the forbidden tree.



Which produced a VERY GUILTY conscience.

So Godly promises, providence, and base sentient knowledge ("conscience") did not prevent Adam from consciously opposing God's Word, which demonstrated the lack of belief, love, limitations, and holiness not inherent in a mutable creature.

IOW's created beings are not God.

 

[7Spirits]

The events did not prove they had a GOOD conscience . . .

A&E did not believe God, showed NO love for God, and refused to serve God's holiness.

A&E only revealed a GUILTY conscience.

You make their disobedience (and the global ramifications from it) seem like just a trivial mistake.

A "conscience" is knowing good versus bad.

Adam was created good, walked with God, and probably possessed a human intelligence we have no measure of. Adam was also instructed in good and bad, and warned by God, disobedience produced death. All this before he ate of the forbidden tree.



Which produced a VERY GUILTY conscience.

So Godly promises, providence, and base sentient knowledge ("conscience") did not prevent Adam from consciously opposing God's Word, which demonstrated the lack of belief, love, limitations, and holiness not inherent in a mutable creature.

IOW's created beings are not God.

Have you ever taken a biblical consistency class?

Mark 10:18

Is there a chance you might stop refuting yourself before anyone else gets a chance?

 

[7Spirits]

God cursed both devil and mankind with enmity against Him and each other.

This curse effects all God's creation, and only produces death.

Care to reference what you are pontificating about in the book of John?

(Ever taken a debate course?)

God cursed Satan and the Dust.

You are a mess!