The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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Lon
Well-known member
I cleaned it up a bit. Still trying to figure out what exactly white eagle was saying. It 'seems' he/she was drawing on parallels and at the same time, eschewing metaphor and symbolism. Such makes for an awkward post, at least for me. I think I see what Nang was saying by such. There are a few universal buzzwords and expressions. Again, we tend to not like what is outside of our biblical expressions when talking about matters of God and faith. In Him -Lon
Rosenritter
New member
Acts 15:28-29 KJV
(28) For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
(29) That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Acts 15:10 KJV
(10) Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Rosenritter
New member
It's not the Ten Commandments, those were only given to Israel at Sinai. It was not given to Adam, nor Noah, nor Abraham, nor Pharaoh, nor the princes of Germany or the kings of England. What is the law of Christ Keypurr? What did Christ say was the law upon which all hung?
keypurr
Well-known member
Your wrong friend:
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Exo 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for am the LORD that healeth thee.
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Exo 24:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.
Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Exo 31:12 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Rom 2:15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
1Jo 2:3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jo 2:4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1Jo 2:5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
1Jo 2:6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
1Jo 2:7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
Adam and Eve knew what God wanted from them, they found out about good and evil which is w3hat the TEN do.
Moses knew about the Sabbath before he got the tablets.
keypurr
Well-known member
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Psa 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Psa 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
God's Truth
New member
You believe that Christ is a Son of God, and Christ went into Jesus---another Son of God in the flesh.
However, the Bible says God sent His one and ONLY Son.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I don't "live by the rules of men", Keypurr, but I don't live by the law of God, either.
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
What the law could not accomplish.....was accomplished on the Cross. YOU SAY, we must do "every day" what only Christ could do. That BOASTING of yours is excluded by the law of faith.
Romans 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
I live by the faith of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Those verses do not in any way change the truth in the verses I posted--
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
No He did not. I ask you to go read through the first five books of the Bible, and tell me if you see anything about "keeping the sabbath" prior to Mount Sinai.
The law was given to Israel after the principles of the law had been firmly established among the believers ever since the beginning.
LA
The first law given (to Adam) was to not partake of the law (aka the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil).
After the flood, God gave Noah 3 commandments, none of which had anything to do with the Sabbath.
To Abraham He gave the commandment to circumcise. Circumcision (throughout the Bible) is used as a synonym for the law. All of Abraham's descendants had to circumcise. It was their law. But circumcision came before the Sabbath.
To Moses, God gave the 10 Commandments, and the Mosaic laws, which is the first time we see anything about keeping the Sabbath.
Question: why do you think God would have to explain a concept to the people of Israel if they already knew it? Consider this example:
Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day.And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him. Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.”So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. - Numbers 15:32-36 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers15:32-36&version=NKJV
IF Israel had been keeping the sabbath for the past few hundred years, why was there any question of what to do with that man? You would think that they would have had that figured out by now.
I suggest to you that keeping the Sabbath was entirely new concept for the children of Israel, one that had been given only in their recent history, at Mount Sinai.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yes. The children of Israel were to rest from their bitter bondage, thus the sabbath rest when they were fed manna from heaven.
Exodus 1:13-14 And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour: And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour.
Exodus 16:32 And Moses said, This is the thing which the Lord commandeth, Fill an omer of it to be kept for your generations; that they may see the bread wherewith I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.
Rosenritter
New member
Your wrong friend:
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Exo 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for am the LORD that healeth thee.
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Exo 24:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.
Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Exo 31:12 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Rom 2:15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
1Jo 2:3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jo 2:4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1Jo 2:5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
1Jo 2:6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
1Jo 2:7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
Adam and Eve knew what God wanted from them, they found out about good and evil which is w3hat the TEN do.
Moses knew about the Sabbath before he got the tablets.
You are making a basic mistake of assuming what you want to prove, then using that as its own self proof. While "the Ten Commandments" might be a type of commandment, you cannot take the word "commandments" and use it interchangeably.
Abraham obeyed God when he commanded. He commanded that he take up his household and move to a foreign land. He commanded that he take his son Isaac to an altar. These are things that we do know that he commanded. We do not have any record of God delivering "the Ten Commandments" to Abraham.
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Rosenritter
New member
Sorry afternoon, I really don't know what you're trying to say.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
God promised Adam life if he kept the commands: procreate, care for the animals and garden, and not eat of the forbidden tree. God warned Adam if he disobeyed Him, he would suffer death.
That is the Law of God.
And it is called the "Old Covenant" because it demanded works.
Since the beginning, all mankind is born under the Old Covenant (Law), which no man can keep, because all persons inherit the human nature that Adam ruined and corrupted.
That is why God provided a New Covenant of Grace, so save a remnant of mankind from the Old.
The Law given by Moses to Israel, is the same as the commands given to Adam, only in more detail. Again, it was demonstrated that the nation of Israel could not keep the Law any better than Adam.
Abraham knew the Law before it was given to his biological seed. Abraham was also given the promise of Grace. So over and over, throughout time, Law and Grace are revealed in the Holy Scriptures.
There is nothing new under the sun. Law and Grace have existed since the beginning, for both Law and Grace reveal the eternal attributes of God, and are thus eternal themselves.
As far as the Sabbath, remember God resting on the 7th day? The concept was manifested in creation. It is not new to mankind, either. Again, the Sabbath will prove to be eternal for it reveals another attribute of eternal God.
I dislike having to differ with you so thoroughly, but you are way off track in your imaginations, here, and you need to correct your mindset as you study the Word of God.
The first three chapters of Genesis, establish permanent principles, that follow throughout the rest of Scripture. Failure to learn these, will either leave you spiritually poor, or you will fall into grievous error.
Please take my response as a sincere effort to help . . and not as criticism.
Nang
Law and Grace are at two separate poles. You are attempting to blend them. Could you please cite scripture that says what you are saying that specifically says what you are saying?
All teachings that deny grace and create a grace law hybrid start with the exact teaching that you have written here.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Only from the perspective of human beings, who are accountable under the former, and due to mortal failure to perform, necessarily are gifted with the latter. The Law is the holy standard of God and His grace is the remedy for falling short of His glory. Romans Chapter 3.
No, they are distinct, but both from God, and therefore, interconnected.
My reply to JudgeRightly is a general overview of the entire Word of God. It is meant to provide a premise for reading the bible, and discovering Truth. These basic principles are within: The Holy Law and Moral Standards of God; His Saving Grace; The promise and Incarnation of Jesus Christ, Who revealed all to mankind.
Your summary of what I have written, is inaccurate.
I was fairly certain that you had no scripture.
We are perpetually dependent on God. To teach that Adam and Eve were under Law (Commandments) before Genesis 3 is saying that Adam and Eve were only allowed to Live by their Law Keeping.
You can say what you want, but this idea always blends grace and Law.
What is your school of study, Nang?
You can say what you want, but this idea always blends grace and Law.
What is your school of study, Nang?