The Trinity

[Bright Raven]

I have been pondering on this all day. If you understand my thoughts you know that I see a spirit son that dwelled in Jesus. My thoughts are that on the cross this spirit went back to the father but the body of Jesus died. Since I believe that the spirit son spoke through Jesus and did not die in the human form, so Christ could have raised Jesus. God did everything through his Son and the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for the challenge friend.

His Spirit went back to the Father. The Holy Spirit did not. He was sent. He is in the earth today.

John 14:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;


John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


John 15:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[keypurr]

Sounds logical that my thoughts are correct than.

We agree, I need to ponder some more. Haha. We never agree that much friend.

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[drbrumley]

[MENTION=3801]keypurr[/MENTION], [MENTION=18157]marhig[/MENTION] [MENTION=12045]jamie[/MENTION] @NWL

This was to Meshak, but what are your objections if any

I've always wondered about something, maybe you can help me out here..

1) In Hebrews 1:6 it says

6And again, when he brought in the first begotten into the world, he said, And let all the angels of God worship him.

So here we have God the Father bringing in the first begotten who is identified as the Son; who is in fact Jesus. What puzzled me at the time, since I believed like you, was why did God tell HIS angels to worship a created being? Maybe you can answer that for me. But that's not all. Let's go back in time from the Book of Hebrews and walk with Jesus shall we...to the Book of Luke. Chapter 4, verses 6-8

6*And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
7*If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
8*And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Now this causes in interesting dilemma doesn't it? On one hand, God speaking, tells His angels to worship Jesus. On the other hand, Jesus says Only God shall you worship. Perplexing. Doesn't make sense. Until you take into account Hebrewes 1:4,5

4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Well, what have we there. Jesus was and is better than the angels. Wait, I thought he was an angel before being born. Well obviously that's not accurate. Because this is what changed my view. God showed Himself to me thru the scriptures as He is right now to you. Because God the Father said this...Hebrews 1:8

8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Wow, God said to the son, YOUR throne, O'God, is for ever and ever. And there is no getting around it. The writer of the Hebrews used the same word for God in both uses in this one verse. It in no way shape or form mean BIG GOD talking to Little God.

 

[marhig]

[MENTION=3801]keypurr[/MENTION], [MENTION=18157]marhig[/MENTION] [MENTION=12045]jamie[/MENTION] @NWL

This was to Meshak, but what are your objections if any

I've always wondered about something, maybe you can help me out here..

1) In Hebrews 1:6 it says

So here we have God the Father bringing in the first begotten who is identified as the Son; who is in fact Jesus. What puzzled me at the time, since I believed like you, was why did God tell HIS angels to worship a created being? Maybe you can answer that for me. But that's not all. Let's go back in time from the Book of Hebrews and walk with Jesus shall we...to the Book of Luke. Chapter 4, verses 6-8



Now this causes in interesting dilemma doesn't it? On one hand, God speaking, tells His angels to worship Jesus. On the other hand, Jesus says Only God shall you worship. Perplexing. Doesn't make sense. Until you take into account Hebrewes 1:4,5



Well, what have we there. Jesus was and is better than the angels. Wait, I thought he was an angel before being born. Well obviously that's not accurate. Because this is what changed my view. God showed Himself to me thru the scriptures as He is right now to you. Because God the Father said this...Hebrews 1:8



Wow, God said to the son, YOUR throne, O'God, is for ever and ever. And there is no getting around it. The writer of the Hebrews used the same word for God in both uses in this one verse. It in no way shape or form mean BIG GOD talking to Little God.

I will go through you post carefully tomorrow as it's late here.

But let me leave you with this. You quoted Hebrews 1:8 but if you add also verse 9 then it looks like this

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore GOD, EVEN THY GOD, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Ok I'm off to bed, I'll look at the rest of your post tomorrow

 

[drbrumley]

I will go through you post carefully tomorrow as it's late here.

But let me leave you with this. You quoted Hebrews 1:8 but if you add also verse 9 then it looks like this

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore GOD, EVEN THY GOD, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Ok I'm off to bed, I'll look at the rest of your post tomorrow

Ok,let me say and we can start there tomorrow if you wish.

Your usuage of verse 9 doesn't help you since you are not understanding of the trinity.

Look forward to your reply and objections.

 

[marhig]

Ok,let me say and we can start there tomorrow if you wish.

Your usuage of verse 9 doesn't help you if you understood the trinity.

I don't believe in the trinity, there is only one God and that's the father, there is no such thing as a three in one God. And to me it is clear from the Bible that God is the God of Jesus Christ. As it says in Hebrews 1:9 and many many other verses.

And even Jesus himself said so, when he said to Mary, I go to my father and your father, to my God and your God.

Jesus also said, life eternal is this, to know you the only true God as Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

And even the apostles say so when they say. The God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ok I'm going, before I fall asleep!

 

[jamie]

Well, what have we there. Jesus was and is better than the angels. Wait, I thought he was an angel before being born. Well obviously that's not accurate. Because this is what changed my view. God showed Himself to me thru the scriptures as He is right now to you. Because God the Father said this...Hebrews 1:8

Hebrews 1:8 was said post resurrection. Before his death Jesus was of lower status than the angels.

For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him (humans). But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:8-9)​

 

[keypurr]

[MENTION=3801]keypurr[/MENTION], [MENTION=18157]marhig[/MENTION] [MENTION=12045]jamie[/MENTION] @NWL

This was to Meshak, but what are your objections if any

I've always wondered about something, maybe you can help me out here..

1) In Hebrews 1:6 it says

So here we have God the Father bringing in the first begotten who is identified as the Son; who is in fact Jesus. What puzzled me at the time, since I believed like you, was why did God tell HIS angels to worship a created being? Maybe you can answer that for me. But that's not all. Let's go back in time from the Book of Hebrews and walk with Jesus shall we...to the Book of Luke. Chapter 4, verses 6-8



Now this causes in interesting dilemma doesn't it? On one hand, God speaking, tells His angels to worship Jesus. On the other hand, Jesus says Only God shall you worship. Perplexing. Doesn't make sense. Until you take into account Hebrewes 1:4,5



Well, what have we there. Jesus was and is better than the angels. Wait, I thought he was an angel before being born. Well obviously that's not accurate. Because this is what changed my view. God showed Himself to me thru the scriptures as He is right now to you. Because God the Father said this...Hebrews 1:8



Wow, God said to the son, YOUR throne, O'God, is for ever and ever. And there is no getting around it. The writer of the Hebrews used the same word for God in both uses in this one verse. It in no way shape or form mean BIG GOD talking to Little God.

Your assuming that the first begotten son is Jesus.
Your also assuming that it speaks of the birth of Jesus.

My thoughts are that the true spirit son came into the world when the Dove landed on Jesus. That son was given the power of his creator. He is a form of God, not the true God.

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[jamie]

My thoughts are that the true spirit son came into the world when the Dove landed on Jesus. That son was given the power of his creator. He is a form of God, not the true God.

That's pretty much a moot point because scripture says the Word existed at the beginning of human history and that the Word was God and was with God. There is nothing about the Word being a son of God at the beginning of history.

 

[keypurr]

That's pretty much a moot point because scripture says the Word existed at the beginning of human history and that the Word was God and was with God. There is nothing about the Word being a son of God at the beginning of history.

Suggest you reread Heb 1. God created all through his son. Who do you think the Son is? Hint, it is not Jesus.

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[jamie]

Suggest you reread Heb 1. God created all through his son. Who do you think the Son is? Hint, it is not Jesus.

Hebrews 1:10 You, YHVH, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

The term "YHVH" means self-existent, i.e. in the case of the Word it means not created.

The Word was no one's son until conceived by the Holy Spirit.

 

[keypurr]

Hebrews 1:10 You, YHVH, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

The term "YHVH" means self-existent, i.e. in the case of the Word it means not created.

The Word was no one's son until conceived by the Holy Spirit.

AENT uses O Elohim, I think the other translations use O God or as I see it " a " god. The son is a god, the logos, a form of God, yet not the most high. The spirit son is a created godlike creature. COL 1:15.

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[jamie]

AENT uses O Elohim, I think the other translations use O God or as I see it " a " god.

Psalm 102:24-25 I said, "O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days; your years are throughout all generations. Of old You laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the work of Your hands."

To whom is this prayer addressed?

Psalm 102:18-22 This will be written for the generation to come, that a people yet to be created may praise the LORD. For He looked down from the height of His sanctuary, from heaven the LORD viewed the earth to hear the groaning of the prisoner, to release those appointed to death, to declare the name of the LORD in Zion and His praise in Jerusalem when the peoples are gathered together and the kingdoms to serve the LORD.

Matthew 11:4-6 Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them. And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.”

Luke 4:18-19 The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed; to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.

 

[keypurr]

Psalm 102:24-25 I said, "O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days; your years are throughout all generations. Of old You laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the work of Your hands."

Like Heb 1 1

To whom is this prayer addressed?

Psalm 102:18-22 This will be written for the generation to come, that a people yet to be created may praise the LORD. For He looked down from the height of His sanctuary, from heaven the LORD viewed the earth to hear the groaning of the prisoner, to release those appointed to death, to declare the name of the LORD in Zion and His praise in Jerusalem when the peoples are gathered together and the kingdoms to serve the LORD.

LORD in the OT was the Father, however it could be the son. I wish I knew Hebrew to see the words used for LORD. Using only the English how can we tell? All things came from the Father through his son. That tells us the Spirit son was active throughout the OT.

Matthew 11:4-6 Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them. And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.”

Luke 4:18-19 The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed; to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.

Christ came with power, the power that he got from his God.

 

[jamie]

I wish I knew Hebrew to see the words used for LORD. Using only the English how can we tell?

Strong's Concordance
Yhvh: the proper name of the God of Israel
Original Word: יְהֹוָה
Part of Speech: Proper Name
Transliteration: Yhvh
Phonetic Spelling: (yeh-ho-vaw')
Short Definition: LORD​

 

[Nihilo]

What's the AENT Matthew 16:18 say? Anybody who's got one? Thanks.

 

[jamie]

What's the AENT Matthew 16:18 say? Anybody who's got one? Thanks.

my Church/I will build/Keepa/this/and on/Keepa/are/that you/to you/I say/also .18
will subdue it/not/of Sheol/and the gates/

Read from right to left, the slashes group the thought.

Peshitta Aramaic/English Interlinear New Testament

 

[Nihilo]

my Church/I will build/Keepa/this/and on/Keepa/are/that you/to you/I say/also .18
will subdue it/not/of Sheol/and the gates/

Read from right to left, the slashes group the thought.

Peshitta Aramaic/English Interlinear New Testament

Thank you Jamie.

 

[Bright Raven]

What's the AENT Matthew 16:18 say? Anybody who's got one? Thanks.

Matthew 16:18 AENT

I say also to you that you are Keefa, and on this Keefa I will build my assembly, and the gates of Sheol will not subdue it.

 

[Nihilo]

Matthew 16:18 AENT

I say also to you that you are Keefa, and on this Keefa I will build my assembly, and the gates of Sheol will not subdue it.

Awesome. Thank you. :e4e: