The Trinity

[Jerry Shugart]

Question for anyone who believes that God is outside of time:
Is there time in heaven?

Those who exist in time are constrained by the force of time. They cannot go back in time and they cannot enter into the future or even know what will happen in the future. That concept of time cannot be denied.

The LORD is not constrained at all by the force of time since He knows the future.

So the answer to your question is "no," there is no time in heaven.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Those who exist in time are constrained by the force of time. They cannot go back in time and they cannot enter into the future or even know what will happen in the future. That concept of time cannot be denied.

The LORD is not constrained at all by the force of time since He knows the future.

This is a mere suggestion...

What happened when the timeless entered time, defeated death and reclaimed the keys to humanity?

1st Peter 3

17For it is better to suffer for doing good, if the will of God wills it, than doing evil, 18because Christ also sufferedd once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, so that He might bring you to God, having been put to death indeed in the flesh, but having been made alive in the spirit, 19in which also having gone, He preached to the spirits in prison 20at one time having disobeyed,

Note... He entered in Spirit, which denotes the "Timeless".

This is all I will say on this matter, and I merely throw it out as something that I ponder.

I add... God being unbound by time is a fully scripturally defensible stance as we have the day to a thousand years and a thousand years to a day reference, among others that you and [MENTION=16942]JudgeRightly[/MENTION] know well.

 

[Right Divider]

Those who exist in time are constrained by the force of time. They cannot go back in time and they cannot enter into the future or even know what will happen in the future. That concept of time cannot be denied.

The LORD is not constrained at all by the force of time since He knows the future.

So the answer to your question is "no," there is no time in heaven.

How do you interpret this?

Rev 8:1 (AKJV/PCE)​

(8:1) And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. ​

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

How do you interpret this?

Rev 8:1 (AKJV/PCE)​

(8:1) And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. ​

[MENTION=15338]Right Divider[/MENTION] and [MENTION=10]Jerry Shugart[/MENTION],

May I take a swing at this as well as [MENTION=10]Jerry Shugart[/MENTION]'s answer that is to come?

 

[Right Divider]

@Right Divider and @Jerry Shugart,

May I take a swing at this as well as @Jerry Shugart's answer that is to come?

It's an open forum. Be my guest.

 

[JudgeRightly]

That is just so silly.

Then show how I am wrong, please. Your comments are not adding to the discussion in any meaningful way.

No, I do NOT assume that they are one. They are demonstrably one. Time is NOT a simple linear progression as you assume. Study up on time dilation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation
http://creation.com/new-time-dilation-helps-creation-cosmology

I will check these out as soon as I get the chance.

:banana:

Another comment that does not add to the discussion.

So by your judgement, God is NOT the creator of ALL things.... like the Bible says.

Can God create something that cannot be created? For example, can God create a rock that He cannot lift?

Ha ha ha ha..... the old "plan B"...... Nope. It was ALL in the plans all along.

2Tim 1:6-11 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:6) Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands. (1:7) For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. (1:8) Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; (1:9) Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, (1:10) But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: (1:11) Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.​

You assume that my argument is that God had no plans for the Gentiles (us). That's not my argument. God's plan was to use Israel to reach the world. When they rejected Him, He changed tactics, cutting off Israel and grafting in the Gentiles, planning to graft in Israel again once He is satisfied with the number of Christian Gentiles.

Your "god" is not the God of the Bible.

You have yet to show me how.

God is not done with Israel. They will be restored just like God said that they will.

Where did I say God was done with Israel? I said that he cut off Israel, grafted in the Gentiles, and will later graft back in Israel.

When Reading the Bible, We See that God:

is - and was - and is to come - Whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting*- Forever and ever - The Ancient of Days - From before the ages of the ages - From ancient times - the everlasting God - He continues forever - From of old - Remains forever - Immortal - The Lord shall endure forever - Who lives forever - God’s years - manifest in His own time - Everlasting Father - Alive forevermore - Always lives - Forever - Continually - God’s years never end - From everlasting to everlasting - From that time forward, even forever - And of His kingdom there will be no end.​

All of the above phrases are verbatim. They all describe God as having a past, being in the present, and looking forward to the future. Not one of them say or indicate that He is outside of time.

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[JudgeRightly]

Right Divider and Jerry Shugart, I challenge you to read new.kgov.com/time at least once objectively. Many of your objections to my arguments are answered there.

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[JudgeRightly]

This is a mere suggestion...

What happened when the timeless entered time, defeated death and reclaimed the keys to humanity?

1st Peter 3

17For it is better to suffer for doing good, if the will of God wills it, than doing evil, 18because Christ also sufferedd once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, so that He might bring you to God, having been put to death indeed in the flesh, but having been made alive in the spirit, 19in which also having gone, He preached to the spirits in prison 20at one time having disobeyed,

Note... He entered in Spirit, which denotes the "Timeless".

This is all I will say on this matter, and I merely throw it out as something that I ponder.

I add... God being unbound by time is a fully scripturally defensible stance as we have the day to a thousand years and a thousand years to a day reference, among others that you and [MENTION=16942]JudgeRightly[/MENTION] know well.

Evil, come on now. I KNOW you're not saying that God is outside of time... right?

new.kgov.com/time

Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

How do you interpret this?

Rev 8:1 (AKJV/PCE)​

(8:1) And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. ​

Simple is best, so I simply suggest the consideration that Revelation 6:10 lends a possible understanding towards your question.

9And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. 10And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?”

The time reference you cite could be a connection of timeless heaven with the aging universe of humanity. As the events of Revelation tend to suggest the mysterious conclusion to everything.

How could this even make sense?

At the last few chapters of Revelation, we begin to understand that the carnal "fades", while the spiritual "grows", until all is new and no carnal is left.

In shorter terms... The "saints" are now in timelessness, observing the union of everything and crying out for God to stop the injustice that is beyond anything we can comprehend, that is taking place within our constructed, fading universe that is dying.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Evil, come on now. I KNOW you're not saying that God is outside of time... right?

new.kgov.com/time

Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

He is the Alpha and the Omega. I have chosen to take this side of things for the refreshing joy of bickering amongst free thinkers that hold scripture and Christ Crucified Soverign.

: )

#Evil.eye gets to be stubborn amongst friends

I'll Be back in a bit friends

 

[Right Divider]

Simple is best, so I simply suggest the consideration that Revelation 6:10 lends a possible understanding towards your question.

9And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. 10And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?”

The time reference you cite could be a connection of timeless heaven with the aging universe of humanity. As the events of Revelation tend to suggest the mysterious conclusion to everything.

The book of Revelation is not so mysterious if you just go back to the prophecies that God gave Israel. Revelation 21 and Isaiah 60 are completely consistent and nearly identical.

How could this even make sense?

At the last few chapters of Revelation, we begin to understand that the carnal "fades", while the spiritual "grows", until all is new and no carnal is left.

So you assume that the physical world will come to an end? What makes you believe that?

In shorter terms... The "saints" are now in timelessness, observing the union of everything and crying out for God to stop the injustice that is beyond anything we can comprehend, that is taking place within our constructed, fading universe that is dying.

What about the NEW heaven and the NEW earth?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

The book of Revelation is not so mysterious if you just go back to the prophecies that God gave Israel. Revelation 21 and Isaiah 60 are completely consistent and nearly identical.


So you assume that the physical world will come to an end? What makes you believe that?


What about the NEW heaven and the NEW earth?

You actually cited the scripture that answers your excellent question.

If the Spiritual God, "Fully" joins everything, it all becomes Spiritual and "New".

Perhaps a good metaphor would be a Bride and Groom coming together.

 

[steko]

From kgov.com/time:


Question for anyone who believes that God is outside of time:
Is there time in heaven?

Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

Heaven is a part of creation, therefore, yes, there is time in heaven.

Heaven did not exist until GOD created the heavens and the earth, therefore, the question of whether there is time in heaven or not, is not relevant to the question of whether GOD exists in time beyond the creation.

Before creation, there was no heaven.

If GOD dwelt within anything before creation then whatever it was that GOD dwelt in would necessarily be greater than GOD, which is impossible, for there is nothing greater than GOD.

One must restrict one's question of whether GOD is in time or subject to time to His existence as transcendent to all creation, before anything was created.

Certainly, GOD acts within the created universe, including heaven, therefore He speaks and acts within time, but that is another question which must be kept distinct from the other.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

A fun discussion point is that Genesis starts with separation and Revelation ends with union.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Heaven is a part of creation, therefore, yes, there is time in heaven.

Heaven did not exist until GOD created the heavens and the earth, therefore, the question of whether there is time in heaven or not, is not relevant to the question of whether GOD exists in time beyond the creation.

Before creation, there was no heaven.

If GOD dwelt within anything before creation then whatever it was that GOD dwelt in would necessarily be greater than GOD, which is impossible, for there is nothing greater than GOD.

One must restrict one's question of whether GOD is in time or subject to time to His existence as transcendent to all creation, before anything was created.

Certainly, GOD acts within the created universe, including heaven, therefore He speaks and acts within time, but that is another question which must be kept distinct from the other.

Excellent points!

 

[Right Divider]

You actually cited the scripture that answers your excellent question.

If the Spiritual God, "Fully" joins everything, it all becomes Spiritual and "New".

Perhaps a good metaphor would be a Bride and Groom coming together.

Is this a different God than the one that created the heaven and the earth?

You creating a fantasy version of the Bible and not taking it seriously.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Is this a different God than the one that created the heaven and the earth?

You creating a fantasy version of the Bible and not taking it seriously.

No

I say Spiritual as in the mystery of God in heaven, as opposed to God with us. Jesus in the Gospels.

The Spiritual reference is shorthand and trust that it is understood that Spiritual denotes things we struggle to comprehend.

Father, Son, Spirit who are/is God.

: )

I would hope you know me better than to ask that question.

#No Poly theism here

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Is this a different God than the one that created the heaven and the earth?

You creating a fantasy version of the Bible and not taking it seriously.

Let me be clear.

Note the structure of my words here.

He is the Alpha and the Omega. I have chosen to take this side of things for the refreshing joy of bickering amongst free thinkers that hold scripture and Christ Crucified Soverign.

: )

#Evil.eye gets to be stubborn amongst friends

I'll Be back in a bit friends

I was suggesting that I could take either side and trusted that there would be no "other God" accusations or limiting of free supposition to further learn from one another.

When I discuss God in the construct of theology that binds everything to time, I understand and support it with scripture.

When I talk about God separate from the construct of time, I understand it and can support it with scripture.

Because timelessness is beyond our grasp as is a incomprehensible mystery to us... I use carnal to denote time and death and Spiritual to denote eternity that knows no marks of death.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

???

 

[JudgeRightly]

Heaven is a part of creation, therefore, yes, there is time in heaven.

Heaven did not exist until GOD created the heavens and the earth, therefore, the question of whether there is time in heaven or not, is not relevant to the question of whether GOD exists in time beyond the creation.

Before creation, there was no heaven.

If GOD dwelt within anything before creation then whatever it was that GOD dwelt in would necessarily be greater than GOD, which is impossible, for there is nothing greater than GOD.

One must restrict one's question of whether GOD is in time or subject to time to His existence as transcendent to all creation, before anything was created.

Certainly, GOD acts within the created universe, including heaven, therefore He speaks and acts within time, but that is another question which must be kept distinct from the other.

Good answer, minor correction though:

"Heavens" in Genesis 1:1 refers to the universe, not "Heaven."

God created "Heaven" on Earth, the Garden of Eden. So when the we say that Lucifer was cast out of Heaven, it means he was cast out of Eden. Fun fact, Adam and Eve sinned on day 13 of creation.

The "Heaven" that we think of today was probably created sometime between God casting out Adam and Eve and the Flood, As the Tree of Life would have been brought up out of the Garden and into Heaven.

Question for all: Does God dwell in Heaven?

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