Again, you cannot have a "before" if there is no time.
Try reading through the article again, keeping that in mind.
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The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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Try reading through the article again, keeping that in mind.
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That is silly, quite frankly.
Just exactly what human terminology would God use to describe the indescribable?
God has ALWAYS existed. Just exactly how do you put a clock on that?
That God operate within time for humans and the earth does NOT mean that time has always existed.
Just how long is "from everlasting"?
You cannot have "always" either without time, as it answers the question "when".
I use clocks as methods for telling time.
If a clock stops, does time stop?
I think you're making the assumption that since we can't wrap our head around the concept of an eternity past or future that it means that it has to be without time.
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That is your opinion. God is eternal. He exists without ANYTHING else.
So now you're using fallacious reasoning. The clock is NOT the master of time. Talk about getting it exactly backwards.
How old is God?
It is you that is making assumptions. You cannot think of anything but time.
I agree that God is eternal, and that He existed for all of eternity past alone (fellowshipping within the three persons of the Godhead).
Who's assuming things? I was asking you so that we could find some common ground to stand on. I'm glad you don't believe (as some do) that clocks = time. I was making sure that you weren't one of them.
Now that that's out of the way, we both understand that a clock is used to measure time, correct? If so, then based on the above, we know that if a clock stops (or even has not yet started) then it does not mean that time ceases (or starts).
Do you think we can apply that same principle to history books?
That implies that God had a beginning, which is obviously wrong. He is eternal. He was, is, and always will be.
You assumed a lot in your post, but I'll let it slide.
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We measure time. How do you measure eternity?
I did NOT say anything about assuming anything in that paragraph. Are you getting confused?
No, clocks do NOT equal time. A broken clock does NOT bring the universe to a screeching halt.
Once again, your clock does not run the universe.
I have no idea what you're getting at.
How old is God? If time did NOT come into existence with His creation, then He has an age (which He does NOT).
Don't let it slide. I have nothing to fear.You assumed a lot in your post, but I'll let it slide.
keypurr
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keypurr
Well-known member
Do you think God created TIME for movement? Without Time would there be movement?
God set the standard for Earth time but I bet his time is not the same.
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Something to ponder over.
Time was not created. Time flows from the future to the past at the rate of 1 second per second. God existed for an eternity past, but eternity means nothing if there is no time. In fact, if you wanted to say "Holy holy holy" outside of time, you could never get past the first "h," you'd be stuck saying "hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh."
Time is not part of this universe. Otherwise there would not have been a "before the universe."
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keypurr
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Everything was created by God, time included. I agree that it flows but I think it flows at different speeds. God's time not the same as the time he gave us. This world is many millions or years old and was not created in our 24 hour day period.
JR, I enjoy your thoughtful response to my posts.
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So you're saying that there was a "before time"? That's illogical at best. You can't have a "before" without time, nor can you have "always," "after," "then," or any other expression that answers the question "when". Note: I'm not saying that time came before God, I'm saying that God did not create time.
The Bible says that man was made at the beginning of creation. Exodus 20:11 states "in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them." If God made man millions of years after he made the heavens and the earth, that's not at the beginning of creation, and contradicts that passage. But if God made man on day 6 (using a literal 24 hour day, 360 day year), compared to us living 6-10 thousand years after creation, that's quite literally at the beginning of the creation.
"One day is as a thousand years"
See https://www.icr.org/article/9568/
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There is no "eternity" in time. Eternity means forever and is not finite. You cannot measure eternity.
Also, you must not know about time dilation. The rate of time is not a constant. It relates to motion.
Time and space are inseparable. They are different dimension of creation.
keypurr
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Time, if flowing, needed to be before it could flow. I believe everything, including time, comes from our creator. I also think that his flow of time is not the same as ours. He set the standard for our time and seasons. This Earth is a lot older than six thousand years JR.
I know that the six days of creation were not 24 hours each. Before the sun and Moon were in place a day could have been a million years. The big bang to place long, long ago friend.
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I agree with you on the second and third sentences. However, eternity is a part of time. Again, just because you can't comprehend such a large concept doesn't mean it's not a part of something bigger.
[/QUOTE]Also, you must not know about time dilation. The rate of time is not a constant. It relates to motion.
Time and space are inseparable. They are different dimension of creation.[/QUOTE]
Was there time before the universe existed?
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keypurr
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Time has to be part on the Universe or nothing would move in it. The stars and planets are not just sitting there, they are moving. In fact the Universe is said to be expanding.
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God existed when there was no time. Time is measurable, eternity is not.
No, there was not.
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Yes. This is clear, since He existed when there was no universe.
God is not a part of His own creation. The fact that God interacts with us within His creation does not make us pantheists.