There's no evidence of any "spirit son" either in the Prologue, or in the Hebrew scriptures that preceded the birth of Jesus. Thus, I think your interpretation is without any exegetical merit. Throughout the 4th Gospel, the "word" (LOGOS) simply refers to what the human Jesus was saying during his public ministry (cf. John 12:44-50; John 14:24-25).
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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There's no evidence of any "spirit son" either in the Prologue, or in the Hebrew scriptures that preceded the birth of Jesus. Thus, I think your interpretation is without any exegetical merit. Throughout the 4th Gospel, the "word" (LOGOS) simply refers to what the human Jesus was saying during his public ministry (cf. John 12:44-50; John 14:24-25).
keypurr
Well-known member
Consider Hebrews 1:3.
What or who is the EXPRESS IMAGE of God?
God is a spirit, not a man.
There is lot of evidence if one has an open mind to see it.
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My understanding is that Hebrew 1:3 is referring to the "assurance" (Grk. UPOSTASIS) that the human Jesus receive as "the appointed heir of all things" (Hebrews 1:2) following his death and resurrection (Hebrews 1:4). The term UPOSTASIS has nothing to do with "image" or "nature" or "being." That is no how the apostles used the term.
Consider Peter, He said;
2 Peter 1:1New King James Version (NKJV)
Greeting the Faithful
1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
What does that mean Keypurr?
SimpleMan77
New member
The Trinity
In Psalms 107:20 He sent His word and healed them. Nobody in their right mind can say that we are speaking of two persons here.
"He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions."
He turned that spoken word into flesh, and inhabited humanity. Yes He sent the son - that is to say He sent His word in bodily form.
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In Psalms 107:20 He sent His word and healed them. Nobody in their right mind can say that we are speaking of two persons here.
"He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions."
He turned that spoken word into flesh, and inhabited humanity. Yes He sent the son - that is to say He sent His word in bodily form.
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keypurr
Well-known member
You have a right to be wrong.
Millions of us are not in our right mind I guess.
Including the son who said he came to do his Father's will.
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keypurr
Well-known member
How many more times must we go over this verse?
Our God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.
Get the AENT it's a better translation.
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Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
What was the son before he BECAME flesh?
Yahweh spoke the creation into existence...."Let there be light."
Jesus was Yahweh's word in a metaphorical sense, and not in a physical sense.. He didn't exist until he was born in Bethlehem.
What was the son before he BECAME flesh?
Yahweh spoke the creation into existence...."Let there be light."
Jesus was Yahweh's word in a metaphorical sense, and not in a physical sense.. He didn't exist until he was born in Bethlehem.
I have one thank you, So who is the Master and Redeemer, the Messiah? What does that mean?
Your Scriptures do NOT say Jesus is God. Isaiah never mentions Jesus.
William Tyndale's translation
Chapter 1
1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God.
2 The same was in the beginnynge with God.
3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.
4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men
5 and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darcknes comprehended it not.
The "word" is not capitalized and uses the pronoun "It" because the word was not meant to be a person but just the utterance of God when he spoke the creation into existence....for example.."Let there be light."
John's Gospel Shows Strong Evidence of being Edited.
Let me show you an example.
John 20:30-31
30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
This was the original ending of John's Gospel.
But there is another chapter in John's Gospel....chapter 21.
John 21:25
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they *were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself *would not contain the books that *would be written.
This is the ending that we have now in our Bibles for John's Gospel.
This is proof positive that John's Gospel was edited and this makes it unreliable as Scripture.
John's Exclamatory Utterance at seeing Jesus.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
This exclamatory statement has to be considered in the context of the times.
Moses was referred to as a God.
Exodus 7:1 (King James Version)
1And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Judges are referred to as Gods.
Psalm 82:6 (King James Version)
6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Kings were referred to as Gods.
Psalm 45:6-7 (King James Version)
6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Satan is referred to as a God.
2 Corinthians 4:4 (King James Version)
4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Herod is referred to as a God.
Acts 12:22 (King James Version)
22And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man.
The Prophet Samuel is referred to as a God.
1 Samuel 28:13-14 (King James Version)
13And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
As you can see, calling someone "God" does not automatically equate to refering to them as the real true God who created the Universe.
Paul recognized that there are many who are called God.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (King James Version)
5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Part of the problem is that Thomas probably spoke in Aramaic, It was reported by the writer of John's gospel in Greek, and then translated into English. The real meaning of Thomas' Exclamation may have been lost in Translation. In Hebrew the Word "Elohim" often refers to God, but is also used for other "mighty Ones." Thomas may have only been refering to Jesus as a "mighty one" and not as a God.
SimpleMan77
New member
The word absolutely wasn't a person before IT became a HE in the incarnation.
However once the IT becomes a HE, it is absolutely proper to refer to the word as a HE looking back on it. So he is completely proper to say "all things were made by HIM" referring to the word of God.
My word is with me before I speak, and IS me in that it reveals the real me. My word is much more ME than my hair color, skin color or height is.
If I were invisible, and had the power to turn my word into a man, and then indwell that man, there would be no way to separate me from him, or him from me. That's what God did at Bethlehem.
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SimpleMan77
New member
Again, I could quote all kinds of scriptures. In the book of Revelation, John saw one throne and one sitting upon it.
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God Tells Peter That Jesus Is NOT God.
Did Jesus’ “Main Man” Peter believe that Jesus was God?
Let’s look!
Matthew 16:13-17
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” 15 He *said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Jesus asks the question….Who do you say I am?
Peter answers….. You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Jesus praises Peter’s answer and affirms that Peter is correct.
We know for sure that Peter is correct because Jesus says “flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.”
Peter’s correct answer came directly from God.
Jesus is not God but he is the Messiah or Christ.
Are you convinced?
John 20:30-31
30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
If the writer of John's gospel wanted his readers to believe Jesus is God he would have said it ....but he didn't. He said...""these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ""
Yes and the Lamb STANDING next to the throne.
SimpleMan77
New member
The Trinity
There are two amazing revelations in Jesus Christ.
1. Jesus is God
2. God is Jesus, the man.
The second one is the biggest and most profound. God had appeared as a man before, but only when he was born of a woman did he BECOME a man. The fact that he became the son of God as a man means that he knows how to be a faithful high priest. Only someone who has been through what we have been through could really have compassion and mercy on us the way that He can.
I am more excited about him being the son of God than I am about him being God. He is both.
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There are two amazing revelations in Jesus Christ.
1. Jesus is God
2. God is Jesus, the man.
The second one is the biggest and most profound. God had appeared as a man before, but only when he was born of a woman did he BECOME a man. The fact that he became the son of God as a man means that he knows how to be a faithful high priest. Only someone who has been through what we have been through could really have compassion and mercy on us the way that He can.
I am more excited about him being the son of God than I am about him being God. He is both.
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SimpleMan77
New member
Actually, the lamb was standing in the middle of the throne.
And John never saw the Spirit of God. Stephen never saw anyone but Jesus when he said "I see Jesus standing at the right hand of God". The Bible is very clear-"no man has seen God at any time".
What did John say? "The only begotten son, who IS IN the bosom of the Father, he has declared Him".
The Lamb was in the middle of the throne because He is the visible heart of God". He is all of God that you will ever see.
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You need to read Isaiah 42-44 and compare with what Peter said.
You make assertions...but they are not convincing.