The real book on Christianity.

[jamie]

I say no clergy existed in the original church...

And here is why, Jesus instructed his disciples, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you, but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant."
(Matthew 20:25-26 NKJV)

Here is how we know Peter was never a pope: "Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly, nor as being lords over those entrusted to you but being examples to the flock..."
(1 Peter 5:2-3 NKJV)

But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. (Revelation 2:6 NKJV)​

There is no conquered laity in the church of God.

 

[Mickiel]

John Chrysostom was one of the greatest Christian orators of his day, ( Chrysostom means " Golden-mouthed"). We can also credit Chrysostom and Augustine for making pulpit oratory part of the Christian faith. This is one of the dynamics that made Martin Luther so prominent, he thought people should listen to the word of God being spoken to them, and John Calvin agreed with him. And this is the very method used by satan to infuse the church with deception.

The preachers mouth!

 

[Mickiel]

The gift of gab became a thorn in the history of Christianity, without them even knowing it. But how? How can a " Sermon" become a thorn? Well the sermon makes the preacher the virtuoso performer of the regular church gathering. As a result, congregational participation is seriously hampered. The congregation degenerates into a group of muted spectators who watch a performance. The sermon turns the church into a preaching station. The sermon freezes and imprisons the functioning of the body of Christ. You can't question a preacher during his sermon, if you disagree, its just tuff luck.

The sermon really stalemates spiritual growth, because its a one way affair, it encourages passivity. You get more participation at places like this website. The sermon suffocates mutual ministry, it smothers open participation. The knowledge of the speaker is being poured out without question. What if they are wrong about something? Then your knowledge takes a nose dive.

The sermon creates an excessive and pathological dependence on the clergy.

 

[Mickiel]

The true father of the Christian sermon is Greco-Roman rhetoric. It was designed to entertain and display genius and give momentary stimulant. The Christian church got stuck on this element and now totally depends on it for edification.

 

[Mickiel]

Historically Christianity has absorbed its surrounding cultures. When your pastor mounts his pulpit wearing his clerical robes to deliver his sacred sermon, he is unknowingly playing out the role of the ancient Greek orator.

And listen, the contemporary sermon does not have a shred of biblical evidence or merit to support its existence. It has become so entrenched in the Christian mind, people just fail to see they are affirming an unscriptural practice out of sheer tradition.

But there is yet more.

 

[Mickiel]

The church started to spread, and it drew in pagans by the loads, they liked this new message coming from Paul. Churches were made at Pisidian, Antioch, Iconium, Lystra, Derbe, Philippi, Thessalonica and Berea. Yes this church that started in Rome, that same church that evolved into Catholocism, that same church that now has thousands of splinters of Christianity, Paul helped to plant it.

 

[Mickiel]

Hierarchy leadership first emerged in ancient Egypt, Babylon and Persia. It was later carried over into the Greek and Roman culture, where it was perfected. This system of imperial administration was inherited by Alexander the Great, adopted by the Roman Empire, and eventually bequeathed to modern Europe. This is where Christianity got it from; a top down single ruler.

 

[Mickiel]

You ever notice how certain subjects are banished from Christian conversation? How paganism became a part of their DNA is one of them. A real deep look at its history, ought to challenge the intellect and emotional content of a Christian believer. Why protect and tolerate things in your religion that are wrong? Christian theological education has never recovered from the paganism that leaked into its bloodstream.

Now the Christian scholars have become the guardians of ancient problems that they would rather glean over than face out front. The Trinity doctrine was born like this. How the scene in the garden of Eden is viewed was affected by this. The celebration of pagan holidays was born like this. The list of Christian thought that was affected by the blending of Christian thought and pagan philosophy is too long to list.

But bothersome enough to be ignored.

 

[Mickiel]

Now we look at " Tithing." Is tithing biblical? Well yes it is, but its spiritual. The real tithe belonged to ancient Israel, it was essentially their income tax. Never do you find first century Christians tithing in the New Testament. God gave three kinds of tithes to Israel , all three had only to do with " Land." The seed of the land, the fruit of the land and herd of the flock, NEVER money!

What the Christian church has done with the tithe, is unbiblical and a burden on people. They have changed it to a money market.

 

[serpentdove]

Constantine was a Christian, but almost to his dying day, he still functioned as the " High Priest of Paganism."...

Constantine was nothing but a descendant of Esau (2 Pe 2:1, Jud 11). linger:

Related:

Why would God need a demon who promotes Constantine as a true blue Christian? 2 Pe 2:1

 

[Mickiel]

Now we look at " Tithing." Is tithing biblical? Well yes it is, but its spiritual. The real tithe belonged to ancient Israel, it was essentially their income tax. Never do you find first century Christians tithing in the New Testament. God gave three kinds of tithes to Israel , all three had only to do with " Land." The seed of the land, the fruit of the land and herd of the flock, NEVER money!

What the Christian church has done with the tithe, is unbiblical and a burden on people. They have changed it to a money market.

The biblical tithe was a product of land not money and we never see Christians tithing in the New Testament , but something " Other than the truth" exist in Christianity; we never see a Trinity in the bible either, but Christians have formulated it as a doctrine. If a number can be put on God, and it can't, I could make a case for God being " Seven", more than a case for Three.

How many countless Pastors have tried to use Malachi 3 for their sermons on tithing? Oh how they take that out of context. Then they preach a " Curse on the people" if they don't tithe. Ask any one of them what the curse is, and see what they say. See what evil they pin on God.

If you chart the real history of tithing, you'd be surprised.

 

[Mickiel]

The use of the tithe , or the tenth, was commonly used to calculate payments to landlords. As the church increased its ownership of land across Europe, the 10 percent rent charge shifted from secular landlords to the church. Ecclesiastical leaders became landlords. The tithe became the ecclesiastical tax. This gave the ten percent rent charge new meaning. It was creatively applied to the Old Testament Law and came to be identified with the Levitical tithe! The Christian tithe was fused into this.

 

[Mickiel]

Before the eight century, the tithe was practiced as a voluntary offering, by the end of the tenth century, it had developed into a legal requirement to fund the state church; demanded by the clergy and enforced by the secular authorities! Today it is no longer legal, you may not be physically punished if you do not tithe, but the ministers will make you feel as if you are sinning if you don't. Creflo Dollars church won't help anyone in their membership unless they are tithing.

 

[Mickiel]

Constantine was nothing but a descendant of Esau (2 Pe 2:1, Jud 11). linger:

Related:

Why would God need a demon who promotes Constantine as a true blue Christian? 2 Pe 2:1

He put Christianity on the map and gave it a serious boost of power.

 

[Lon]

I believe that original first church, that first century church, was the church in its purest form; never to be that pure again! That was the church before it was tainted and corrupted. That church was an organic church, an organism that breathed in and out the truth; and that truth today, looks nothing like it did back then.

Romantic. Ever read Corinthians? Revelation 2,3? 1 John?

The DNA of the Christian church has changed; and this is perhaps best told by someone " outside" of the church, because religious self evaluation is the worse kind; its far too selfish, too self sacrosanct.

:nono: My doctor always asks me what my symptoms are. Thanks, don't need help but from the Only Physician. "Selfish" that I don't allow an amateur to play doctor? Sacrosanct that I don't care about friendly opinion? Naw, I'll leave you to your accusations until I see credentials. My Doctor would insist.

The real historical story of Christianity is one of God's people absorbing foreign elements into their bloodstream, and historically never exhaling those elements. The incredible traditions that were tacked on to Christianity over the years, would fill volumes in books, and the incredible self absorbed mentality of all of Christianity to never even notice their true history and how off course it has become, is simply stunning! The way the religion protects itself is astounding; and yet no one is safe from true history. It will tell the truth, no matter who is unable to absorb it.

Jesus is Sovereign over His own. According to you, there is 'no danger' anyway so your help cannot be seen as overtly sincere or concerned either.

"After the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in AD 70, Judaic Christianity waned in numbers and power. Gentile Christianity dominated, and that " New Faith" began to absorb Greco-Roman philosophy and ritual. It was a period of pagan culture, and much of what Christianity does today, was lifted directly out of pagan culture. Paganism dominated the Roman Empire up until the 4th century, and many of its elements were absorbed by Christians in the first half of the first millennium." ( Pagan Christianity, pg.6, by Frank Viola and George Barna).

There is no longer Jew, male or free.

Not that paganism or philosophy are wrong in and of themselves, they are not; but these two concepts obviously molded and shaped Christianity, like no other element has shaped this incredible giant of a church.

God is able to keep those who are His.
Sheep hear and know His voice.

Lets take a closer look at how.

Again, we have a Physician already. Kind of you to offer if a bit audacious and uncomfortably toward from a nonprofessional. I like chicken soup, but I already have 5 bowls from atheists, agnostics, heretics and (Other). My fridge is full.

 

[Mickiel]

Interesting that there is no contemporary pastor in the New Testament, there is no paid clergy, no church buildings and church meetings are open for everyone to individually share their thoughts.

Wow, what happened to that church?

 

[Lon]

Interesting that there is no contemporary pastor in the New Testament, there is no paid clergy, no church buildings and church meetings are open for everyone to individually share their thoughts.

Wow, what happened to that church?

:nono: Also incorrect. Paul was supported by the church. If those funds ever lacked, he made tents.

Recommendation (and friendly): Read your bible more, or at least be open to correction and the idea that your opinion may be wrong.

-Lon

 

[Mickiel]

:nono: Also incorrect. Paul was supported by the church. If those funds ever lacked, he made tents.

Recommendation (and friendly): Read your bible more, or at least be open to correction and the idea that your opinion may be wrong.

-Lon

So your suggesting Paul had a salary, show me that. I'd be interested in seeing that.

 

[Lon]

So your suggesting Paul had a salary, show me that. I'd be interested in seeing that.

1 Corinthians 9:11 Philippians 4:15-18 1 Timothy 5:17 (Not talking about a 'tithe' though, I have some agreement on such matters but think we should be able to supersede a tithe, if we are not in great debt as many are). 1 Corinthians 9:15-18

 

[Mickiel]

1 Corinthians 9:11 Philippians 4:15-18 1 Timothy 5:17 (Not talking about a 'tithe' though, I have some agreement on such matters but think we should be able to supersede a tithe, if we are not in great debt as many are). 1 Corinthians 9:15-18

Paul clearly said what they gave him was a gift that no other church gave him, explain to me how you consider that a salary?