SaulToPaul 2
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:readthis:
Theology Club: The Rapture is Found in the Epistle of James
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
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:readthis:
SaulToPaul 2
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John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Body of Christ doctrine?
James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Body of Christ doctrine?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
James 5:2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
James 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
Matthew 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
James 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
Matthew 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
tell 'em Barn - :cigar:
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Body part
Why wouldn't James use the term "imminent"? The mystery of Christ was NOT made known to him.
Jerry Shugart
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Why do you try to change the subject? If the book of Hebrews is for the tribulation period when the law will be in effect once again why do we read this?:
"For there is verily an annulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did...By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament" (Heb.7:18-19,22).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Why would he refer to the coming of the Lord as being imminent unless it was indeed imminent?
The following passage from the book of Hebrews demonstrates that the Jewish believers were expecting an "imminent" return of the Lord Jesus:
"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look (apekdechomai) for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb.9:28).
Here the Greek word apekdechomai is used and it means "to expect, wait or look for" (The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised, 37).
If the "appearing" of the Lord Jesus could not happen until certain prophesised events occured (such as the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15) then it is evident that before those events happened no one would be looking for that appearance, much less eagerly expecting that appearance:
apekdechomai: "To await eagerly or expectantly for some future event...to look forward eagerly, to await expectantly" (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains; Volume 2, ed. Louw and Nida, 296).
Of course the author of Hebrews would not be telling the Jewish believers to be looking for the Lord's appearance and waiting expectantly for it even though he knew that the lord Jesus could not possibly appear until after the abomination of desolations is set up in the temple.
Or perhaps you think that he would?
SaulToPaul 2
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Tribulation doctrine.
Jerry Shugart
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Of course you provide no evidence to support that assertion.
You ignore the evidence that proves that James was speaking about an "imminent" appearanceof of the Lord Jesus and then you fail to give any evidenceto support your assertion.
SaulToPaul 2
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The tribulation context of Hebrews-Revelation jumps out at a Mid Acts dispenstionalist. An Acts 2 dispensationalist might miss it, through his bias.
SaulToPaul 2
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Not Body doctrine.
SaulToPaul 2
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Good question, that gets to the crux of the Jerry situation.
Jerry Shugart
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It might to you since you run and hide from the verses which prove you wrong. But it certainly didn't jump out to Mid Acts Dispensationalist J.C. O'Hair because he believed that the epistles of James is indeed for this age:
"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphasis mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).
On the Beraan Bible Society website we read:
"Pastor O’Hair was, without a doubt, the one person who, more than any other, was used of God to establish among believers what Paul, by inspiration calls, “the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery.”
O'Hair calls the teaching within the Psuedo-MAD movement "foolish."
The epistles written to the Jews were written during the present dispensation of grace and they were addressed to men living during the same dispensation. If the doctrine found there is not for the present dispensation then it is certain that the authors would have mentioned that fact to in order to avoid confision.
Those epistles will be searched in vain where any of the authors of those epistlies say that the doctrine was not for then then present dispensation. Despite that you still put forth your foolish ideas.
Besides that, you just run and hide from all the verses which I quoted which prove that James speaks of an imminent coming and therefore that coming is the rapture.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I believe it is you that runs and hides.
The original MAD Co-Popes, Andersen and O'Hair, will not be available to quote from at the Judgement Seat.
You will have to answer for yourself.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You will not be able to run and hide from the Lord at the Judgment Seat. And there you will have to answer for yourself why you say that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved until they believed and did works.
Especially since you are aware of these words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
I wouldn't want to be in your shoes on that day!
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I am willing to quote all of John 5.
I see the context.
And I will accept the gains or losses at the judgment seat based on the entire chapter.
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SaulToPaul 2
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Do you believe that hounding fellow believers will be gold, silver, and precious stones?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So you think that there is something found in the 5th chapter that makes the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law a lie?:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
What He said there is either true or it is not. You assert that what He said there is not true because other words found in the same chapter proves that what He said cannot possibly be true.
Do you not see how ridiculous that idea is?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I am only following what Paul said to do to those like you who turn their ears from the truth:
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Tim.2:2-4).
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.