Theology Club: The Rapture is Found in the Epistle of James

[Jerry Shugart]

Those believers who received the epistle of James are members of the Body of Christ. They were taught that the Lord Jesus could appear at the rapture at any moment, the same thing Paul taught.

Paul Sadler, one of the chief spokesmen within the Neo-MAD movement, says the following about the events which will happen when the Lord Jesus returns at the rapture:

"According to Paul's gospel the Rapture is 'imminent,' that is, it could take place at any moment. There are no signs, times, or seasons that will precede this glorious event" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, "The Present Obsession With the Anti-Christ," The Berean Searchlight, June, 1999, 7).​

Here is what James wrote:

"You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near. Don't grumble against one another, brothers and sisters, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door! (Jas 5:8-9).​

The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

In an article found on the "Pre-Trib Research Center" web site Dr. Renald E. Showers writes:

"In light of James' statements C. Leslie Mitton wrote, 'James clearly believed, as others of his time did, that the coming of Christ was imminent.' On the basis of James' statements we can conclude that Christ's coming was imminent in New Testament times and continues to be so today, and that this fact should make a difference in the way Christians live" [emphasis added] (Showers, The Imminent Coming of Christ).​

The words "the Judge is standing at the door" certainly speak of the fact that the coming of the Judge is "is near" and it certainly has the quality of imminency.

Paul Sadler, of the Neo-MAD community, correctly understands that only those in the Body of Christ will be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus at the imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus:

"The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ. Those who rightly divide the Word of truth now see that only the members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the Rapture" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1993], 167).​

Therefore, we can know with certainty that those who received the epistle of James are members of the Body of Christ.

 

[musterion]

I was taught this by Acts 2 disp's when I was an Acts 2 disp.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I was taught this by Acts 2 disp's when I was an Acts 2 disp.

As usual you just refuse to address the verses which I quoted. if something is found in the Bible which contradict you mistaken ideas you just run and hide from those things.

You surely do not follow Paul when he said that he "kept back nothing that was profitable unto you" and "I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God" (Acts 20:20, 27).

You pretend to be fully convinced you are right but when it comes to actually addressing verses which contradict your ideas you just run and hide! Your mistaken ideas are built on nothing but thin air.

 

[heir]

Therefore, we can know with certainty that those who received the epistle of James are members of the Body of Christ.

They have an anointing which we do not have, just as these which are not in the Body of Christ (1 John 2:27 KJV). Their forgiveness is future (James 5:14-15 KJV) like those of Acts 3 and 1 John as in: Acts 3:19-21 KJV, 1 John 1:9 KJV referring to Zechariah 13:1 KJV, Romans 11:26-27 KJV. Clearly, things that cannot and are not true for those in the Body of Christ!


We, in the Body of Christ have now received the atonement (Romans 5:11 KJV) and are forgiven all trespasses (Ephesians 4:32 KJV, Colossians 2:13 KJV)!

Stop rebelling against 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV!

 

[Danoh]

LOL

That was my response when I read the OP's title.

Not sure if I was laughing abut your being wrong, or about your being wrong to continue to attempt to hound after others in your decades old need to prove yourself some last minute prophet of the Body the Lord forgot to call two thousand years ago, back when the Mystery had not yet reached the fulness of its revelation in written form.

As there is no joy in exploring issues with you "let us consider" the calling out of your nonsense that you continue to call for by your nonsense.

:bang:

 

[musterion]

Colossians 3:4 is the hope I'm looking for: when Christ appears, I will be manifested with Him in glory. However that ends up happening, whatever that ends up looking like, I'm fine with it. I've learned (to my own satisfaction if to no one else's) that it's fruitless to discuss it anymore because it leads only to contention, not edification.

 

[DAN P]

As usual you just refuse to address the verses which I quoted. if something is found in the Bible which contradict you mistaken ideas you just run and hide from those things.
/QUOTE]


Hi and James 1:1 settles what you have written as MOOT !!

Where in James , does he speak to the Body of Christ ??

Gal 3:28 says that there ARE NO Jews in the Body of Christ , looks like win , does it not !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and James 1:1 settles what you have written as MOOT !!

That does not make the verses which I quoted go away. You do not want to discuss the evifdence which I quoted so why did you even come on this thread?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Colossians 3:4 is the hope I'm looking for: when Christ appears, I will be manifested with Him in glory. However that ends up happening, whatever that ends up looking like, I'm fine with it. I've learned (to my own satisfaction if to no one else's) that it's fruitless to discuss it anymore because it leads only to contention, not edification.

Here Peter is referring to the same thing which Paul speaks of at Colossians 3:4:

"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed...And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away" (1 Pet.5:4).​

That is referring to the heavenly body which these Jewish Christians will put on at the rapture:

"To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you" (1 Pet.1:4).​

Here Paul describes the glorious body which the Christian will put on as "our house which is from heaven":

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven" (2 Cor.5:1-2).​

Peter tells those in the Body of Christ that their inheritance is "reserved in heaven" for them and Paul makes it plain that the "house" or new body which the Christian will put on at the Rapture "is from heaven."

So we can see that the Jewish believers were waiting for an appearing of the Lord Jesus which is described as being "imminent," just like those in the Body of Christ.

And the Jewish believers were expecting to put on heavenly bodies at that imminent appearing of the Lord Jesus, just as those who are members of the Body of Christ are.

 

[Mocking You]

<snip>

Therefore, we can know with certainty that those who received the epistle of James are members of the Body of Christ.

I'm not following your "proof". In other words, your argument does not prove your conclusion.

Maybe I'm missing something. Why would the people that received the epistle of James NOT be considered members of the Body of Christ? Is this a belief of MAD-ists?

 

[patrick jane]

As usual you just refuse to address the verses which I quoted. if something is found in the Bible which contradict you mistaken ideas you just run and hide from those things.
/QUOTE]


Hi and James 1:1 settles what you have written as MOOT !!

Where in James , does he speak to the Body of Christ ??

Gal 3:28 says that there ARE NO Jews in the Body of Christ , looks like win , does it not !!

dan p

1 Corinthians 12:13-14 KJV -

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I'm not following your "proof". In other words, your argument does not prove your conclusion.

Maybe I'm missing something. Why would the people that received the epistle of James NOT be considered members of the Body of Christ? Is this a belief of MAD-ists?

Those in the Neo-MAD community teach that those who received the Hebrew epistles (Hebrews though Jude) were not members of the Body of Christ.

The original teachers of MAD taught that they were.

 

[Danoh]

Those in the Neo-MAD community teach that those who received the Hebrew epistles (Hebrews though Jude) were not members of the Body of Christ.

The original teachers of MAD taught that they were.

Jerry is misrepresenting people.

In fact, he has been hounding after all Madists for decades now, turning every thread and subject into the several, supposed Neo-Mad pet peeves of his, insisting that all not only fall in line with him on this, but repeat back to him why he is right, or face his continuing to talking down to them if they don't, or his further insults and accusations if they move on and leave him to his own need to be that way.

Try him on this; post some issue it turns out he disagrees with you on.

By the way, the originals were Anderson somewhat, O'Hair, Baker and Stam, more so and none of them saw eye to eye on every issue.

By Jerry's ludicrous definition, then, even "the original teachers of MAD" were this silly Neo-Mad label of his.

Anderson was a Cessationist, O'Hair, Baker, and Stam, less so, for example.

On the other hand, none of them were KJV Only, for example.

So, I guess Neo is a form of some sort of a Multiple Personality Disorder.

That's where, in some things one is not Neo, where those things one holds to, meets with Jerry's approval, while, in others, one is Neo: including those four men, where one's understanding does not meet with Jerry's approval.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry is misrepresenting people.

As usual you come on a thread and try to derail it. You just don't want others to see the truth!

In fact, he has been hounding after all Madists for decades now, turning every thread and subject into the several, supposed Neo-Mad pet peeves of his, insisting that all not only fall in line with him on this, but repeat back to him why he is right, or face his continuing to talking down to them if they don't, or his further insults and accusations if they move on and leave him to his own need to be that way.

If you don't like it there is nothing keeping you here or on any of these threads.

You never offer anything of intelligence and all you are interested in is attacking my character.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.


James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.



Was the Rapture taught in the 4 gospels?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

They have an anointing which we do not have, just as these which are not in the Body of Christ (1 John 2:27 KJV). Their forgiveness is future (James 5:14-15 KJV) like those of Acts 3 and 1 John as in: Acts 3:19-21 KJV, 1 John 1:9 KJV referring to Zechariah 13:1 KJV, Romans 11:26-27 KJV. Clearly, things that cannot and are not true for those in the Body of Christ!


We, in the Body of Christ have now received the atonement (Romans 5:11 KJV) and are forgiven all trespasses (Ephesians 4:32 KJV, Colossians 2:13 KJV)!

Stop rebelling against 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV!

Indeed, sister. The tribulation context of James stands out to me.
The Second Coming will certainly be imminent for them.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Indeed, sister. The tribulation context of James stands out to me.
The Second Coming will certainly be imminent for them.

At the time when James wrote his epistle the appearing of the Lord Jesus was described as being imminent. That means that it could happen at any moment.

That cannot be said of the events when the Lord Jesus will return to the earth during the tribulation period because before that can happen there must be an event which will precede it. Here the Lord Jesus speaks of that event:

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains" (Mt.24":15-16).​

It is impossible that James was referring to the Lord Jesus' coming in the Tribulation period of time because he would never have referred to that coming as being "imminent."

There was only one appearing of the Lord Jesus which could be described as being imminent when Paul and James wrote their epistles and that appearing is the rapture.

Paul Sadler, one of the chief spokesmen within the Neo-MAD camp correctly understands that only those in the Body of Christ will becaught up at the rapture:

"The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ. Those who rightly divide the Word of truth now see that only the members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the Rapture" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1993], 167).​

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.


James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.



Was the Rapture taught in the 4 gospels?

This is a good question.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

You have no answer to what I said about James describing the Lord Jesus' appearance as being imminent. So now you try to prove that appearance cannot be described as being imminent and therefore you refuse to believe James.

The Greek word translated "Judge" at James 5:9 is krites and it is found in Paul's epistles here:

"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge (krites), shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing" (2 Tim.4:8).​

Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 2 Timothy 4:8:

"That crown will be given, he says, not to him alone, but to 'all them also that love His appearing.' The coming of Christ, and meeting Him in a resurrected body filled his vision. He had truly 'loved' 'that day,' even though it meant that he would stand before 'the judgment day of Christ' " [emphasis mine] (Stam, Commentary on The Pastoral Epistles of Paul the Apostle [Chicago: Berean Bible Society, 1983], 219-220).​

This explanation of James 5:9 matches perfectly with James words that the Lord Jesus' appearance was "imminent."

You deny James words about His appearance being imminent and then you mis-apply James 5:9 to an event that cannot be described as being imminent.