The Origin of the Myth that the Chuch is 'Spiritual Israel'

[Jerry Shugart]

And so we loop right back around.

Galatians 3:29
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

Ezekiel spoke to those who observe, brother. It's prophesy.

lain:

No, the fact that the LORD speaks of the house of Israel being brought "back" to the land eliminates the idea that anyone but the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are in view. And the following prophecy is speaking about the same land:

"Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame. But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come. For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown: And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded"(Ezek.36:6-10).​

 

[Crucible]

No, the fact that the LORD speaks of the house of Israel being brought "back" to the land eliminates the idea that anyone but the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are in view. And the following prophecy is speaking about the same land:

"

It would make sense if the passage was from the New Testament.

But
It's Ezekiel, written in the 8th century BC.

If you want to rewrite history, go on ahead :idunno:

Did you ever think about the Maccabees?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It would make sense if the passage was from the New Testament.

Why? You will refuse to believe what is written there about Israel:

" And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​

Here we can see the Covenant of which Paul speaks:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. Since their fathers were the physical descendants of Jacob then they will be as well.

So these verses prove that sometime in the FUTURE all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be saved.

 

[Crucible]

Why? You will refuse to believe what is written there about Israel:

" And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​

How you do not see that the passage you just presented as straight up Spiritual Israel is beyond me :doh:

I mean

LOOK AGAIN

:chuckle:

This is ridamndiculous lain:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

How you do not see that the passage you just presented as straight up Spiritual Israel is beyond me

Why do you just IGNORE what we see at Jeremiah 31:31-33? If you will believe what is written there you will see that "Spiritual Israel" is made up of people who are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

You can IGNORE that passage all you want to but the truth found there will never go away!

 

[Epoisses]

How could you deny the truth which we find at Jeremiah 31:31-34?

You have been shown the truth about what is revealed in that passage but you refuse to believe that truth!

And then you have the gall to call dispensationalists dumb!

The houses are spiritual under the new covenant. Dispy's like yourself are devoid of the Holy Spirit so you are left with your religion of the flesh. You worship the flesh of some supposed holy people who just love to dupe Christians.

 

[Epoisses]

Why? You will refuse to believe what is written there about Israel:

" And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​

Here we can see the Covenant of which Paul speaks:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. Since their fathers were the physical descendants of Jacob then they will be as well.

So these verses prove that sometime in the FUTURE all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be saved.

The promise of the new covenant was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that was received by Jews and Gentiles. Once again you need the Holy Spirit to see this and believe it.

 

[Epoisses]

Why do you just IGNORE what we see at Jeremiah 31:31-33? If you will believe what is written there you will see that "Spiritual Israel" is made up of people who are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

You can IGNORE that passage all you want to but the truth found there will never go away!

A Jew according to Paul was someone with a circumcised heart aka being born again. Circumcision is the sign of being a Jew and there is a fleshly and a spiritual circumcision.

in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Col. 2:11

 

[Jerry Shugart]

A Jew according to Paul was someone with a circumcised heart aka being born again. Circumcision is the sign of being a Jew and there is a fleshly and a spiritual circumcision.

Yes, but from the context we can see that Paul is speaking of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob:

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?" (Ro.2:29;3:1-3).​

It was the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who were given the oracles of God. So when Paul speaks of the Jew who has a circumcision of the heart he is speaking of a Jew who who is spiritual or a believer and also a physical descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And that description fits perfectly with the following people found in this prophecy:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. Since their fathers were the physical descendants of Jacob then they will be as well.

So these verses prove that sometime in the FUTURE all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be saved.

Now that I have answered your point in regard to Romans 2:29 then I will ask you to answer a question about what I wrote here:

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. Since their fathers were the physical descendants of Jacob then they will be as well.​

Do you agree with what I said there and if your answer is "no" then tell me exactly what you think I said that is in error.

Thanks!

 

[Epoisses]

Yes, but from the context we can see that Paul is speaking of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob:

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?" (Ro.2:29;3:1-3).​

It was the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who were given the oracles of God. So when Paul speaks of the Jew who has a circumcision of the heart he is speaking of a Jew who who is spiritual or a believer and also a physical descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And that description fits perfectly with the following people found in this prophecy:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. Since their fathers were the physical descendants of Jacob then they will be as well.

So these verses prove that sometime in the FUTURE all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be saved.

Now that I have answered your point in regard to Romans 2:29 then I will ask you to answer a question about what I wrote here:

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. Since their fathers were the physical descendants of Jacob then they will be as well.​

Do you agree with what I said there and if your answer is "no" then tell me exactly what you think I said that is in error.

Thanks!

The noobs that say this never quote verses 26 and 27

Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? Rom. 2:26,27

The uncircumcised (Gentiles) will be counted as circumcised (Jews). Take you parlor tricks back to the hexagram magic shop.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The noobs that say this never quote verses 26 and 27

So are you denying that the word "Jew" as used in the first instance does not mean the same thing when the same word is used the next time?:

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?" (Ro.2:29;3:1-3).​

Different meanings?

I answered your point (even though you do not agree with my answer) but you did not answer what I asked about this passage:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. Since their fathers were the physical descendants of Jacob then they will be as well.

So these verses prove that sometime in the FUTURE all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be saved.

It is your time for you to defend your ideas so please answer my following question about what I said here: :

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. Since their fathers were the physical descendants of Jacob then they will be as well.​

Do you agree with what I said there and if your answer is "no" then tell me exactly what you think I said that is in error.

If you want to refuse to answer you can just take the fifth!

 

[Epoisses]

Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Rom. 2:26-29

Here are the passages in context. Dispensationalists are so far gone that the mere mention of the word Jew is always ethnic and of the flesh. These people are not Christian and have fallen away from the faith. They have no Holy Spirit so they can never see anything as spiritual. They have no faith and have actually written an expiration date into the grace of God from their warped understanding of prophecy. They worship people in the middle east who love money, atheism and homosexuality more than the followers of Christ. Just foot soldiers of the enemy of souls who have been hexed by Jewish magic.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

These people are not Christian and have fallen away from the faith. They have no Holy Spirit so they can never see anything as spiritual. They have no faith and have actually written an expiration date into the grace of God from their warped understanding of prophecy.

There are some people on this forum who display the courage of their convictions by answering the points of their opponents.

On the other hand, there are others who run and hide from questions and instead take the fifth.

We know which one you are!

 

[jamie]

Jerry, do you believed Jesus was anointed as Israel's king?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, do you believed Jesus was anointed as Israel's king?

Yes, this prophecy speaks of that:

“Here is my servant, whom I uphold,my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations …” (Isaiah 42:1).​

I believe that took place here:

"And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him" (Jn.1:32).​

 

[jamie]

Yes, this prophecy speaks of that:

“Here is my servant, whom I uphold,my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations …” (Isaiah 42:1).​

I believe that took place here:

"And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him" (Jn.1:32).​

Good point. And ever since that day Jesus has served as the Christ ruling Israel, the nations and all the world and we finally have world peace. There are no aggressive animals, no war, no hunger, and children play in the streets. Is that right, Jerry?

Currently, Jesus is doing Savior stuff, not Christ stuff.

 

[jamie]

Today the twelve sons of Jacob have become twelve nations, Levi is not a nation.

These twelve nations will come under the purview of the Christ in the context of a new covenant where everyone will acknowledge the Christ. This is literal Israel.

Spiritual Israel, which is the kingdom of God, will rule over literal Israel and all the nations of the world.

 

[Epoisses]

Spiritual Israel are all those who have accepted Christ, been born-again and received the Holy Spirit. So few Christians have the Holy Spirit anymore that this teaching has fallen out of fashion. The end is coming soon...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Spiritual Israel are all those who have accepted Christ, been born-again and received the Holy Spirit.

The following is a prophecy concerning "Spiritual Israel" and the only members of that Israel will be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of those who will be in both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. Therefore, since their fathers are the physical descendants of Jacob then those of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah will also be the same physical descendants.

So these verses prove that sometime in the FUTURE all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who will belong to both houses will be saved.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Currently, Jesus is doing Savior stuff, not Christ stuff.

Yes, at the present time the following prophecy is not being fulfilled:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​