So you confess you do not know the Lord and you have no forgiveness of your iniquity or sins.
You Madists claim Peter did not, and you claim Paul did not either.
such blindness.
LA
ECT The New Covenant is obviously present tense
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So you confess you do not know the Lord and you have no forgiveness of your iniquity or sins.
You Madists claim Peter did not, and you claim Paul did not either.
such blindness.
LA
Jerry claimed/claims no such thing.
You are the one blind - blinded by your "one size fits all."
Interplanner
Well-known member
Yeah, sure, set yourself up as the expert in how to read the OT directly and ignore how Paul did.
You are chronically cryptic. Spit it out so you can actually sound like you are saying something. It is always inside the proverbial Torah hedge so it can't be touched.
The only thing tense around here is you - "obssession is not good" (STP) :chuckle:
Interplanner
Well-known member
Anyone with spiritual insight knows it 'sounds' like it just about Israel until you know the gospels, 2 Cor 3-5, Heb 10 (unless you are one of the 'police' about Hebrews), Gal 4 etc. It's not. It is for all mankind, because it is between God and Christ and we who are in Christ benefit by what he did on our behalf.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Did you not read these verses?:
"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).
In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that.
So these verses are not referring to all of mankind, as you imagine, but instead are strictly in regard to the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Besides that there has never been a time when all of the physical descendants of Jacob knew the LORD and had their sins forgiven. Therefore, the fulfillment of this prophecy remains in the future.
And anyone with spiritual insight knows that is a fact!
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Jerry Shugart
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The best to you Dan and just keep in memory what we read aboiut our Lord here:
"Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen" (Eph.3:20-21).
Yep!
You have little.
The verses are showing the weakness of the old covenant calling out through the flesh, compared with the salvation of the Spirit.
Hebrews shows it is a done deal.
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
LA
Interplanner
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If this isn't bad enough, now they think the other covenant (the good one!) of Gal 4 is not present-applicable either!
SaulToPaul 2
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Even an ignoramus like me can see the parallels between Moses and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The New Covenant takes effect when the LORD roars out of Zion, at his second coming. It's a fact.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Sorry but that is the stronghold of 2P2P but not a fact. It has mistaken all NT passages on the New covenant, and Rom 11 (on 'the covenant). And Judaized them. You need to be 'born from above' on those theological questions. No wonder you 'guard' the use of New covenant passages so tightly. The proper reading of them turns 2P2P in to muck and frog.
SaulToPaul 2
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:chuckle:
Interplanner
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I don't know whether it all 'comes down' to misusing Rom 11 but that is certainly a huge part of your mistaken system. There are too many things about it that point the other way. But the mission work that God/Paul wanted Israel to do simply doesn't factor in your system; you are too busy trying to find 'fulfilled prophecy hints' in rom 11 to see it.
SaulToPaul 2
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Interplanner
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that's speaking relative to Judaism: it happened in the event called Pentecost, see Joel 2.
SaulToPaul 2
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:chuckle:
You need to throw away your theology books and believe the Bible as a child would.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Joel 3
16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
17 So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the Lord, and shall water the valley of Shittim.
19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the Lord dwelleth in Zion.
16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
17 So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the Lord, and shall water the valley of Shittim.
19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the Lord dwelleth in Zion.
Interplanner
Well-known member
I'm sure you "need" a line by line fulfillment, but that is not what the NT does. The wrath of God on judgement day is going to fulfill what ever there is not fulfilled about wrath on Israel in Lk 21. The new covenant is not dependent on that.
Besides, you might notice that the Redeemer comes TO Zion in the new covenant.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
The LORD roars out of Zion, and PROTECTS Jerusalem, at his second coming.
The prophets are trustworthy. You are not.