ECT The Man of Romans 7 is a Believer

God's Truth

New member
Exactly. You can not get Jesus without repentance. Which is a humble contrite heart that needs Jesus, His forgiveness, His love, His power, His presence to live the way He intends in a close intimate relationship with Him, that naturally by the presence of God loves the way God loves. It begins with repentance. Humility. Any righteouness we could possibly muster up is filthy rags without Him.

How do you ever get that obeying Jesus is a filthy rag?

You were taught wrong about the filthy rag scripture.

See, God did not like it that the Jews would do a righteous act and sacrifice an animal for it's blood for a sin offering but not really be sorry for their sins. Giving a sin offering and not really being sorry for their sins made their blood offering like a filthy menstrual/bloody rag offering.
 

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
How do you ever get that obeying Jesus is a filthy rag?

You were taught wrong about the filthy rag scripture.

See, God did not like it that the Jews would do a righteous act and sacrifice an animal for it's blood for a sin offering but not really be sorry for their sins. Giving a sin offering and not really being sorry for their sins made their blood offering like a filthy menstrual/bloody rag offering.

There is a night and day difference in obeying Jesus personally, in fellowship (shared intimate love with Him/God) through humilty and His supernatural transcendent Spiritual presence that includes adhering to His words; Vs. Attempting to obey His words in pride and self-righteousness, in one's own ability. Which really is impossible. (Romans 7). No one loves their enemies apart from His supernatural presence.
 

God's Truth

New member
There is a night and day difference in obeying Jesus personally, in fellowship (shared intimate love with Him/God) through humilty and His supernatural transcendent Spiritual presence that includes adhering to His words; Vs. Attempting to obey His words in pride and self-righteousness, in one's own ability. Which really is impossible. (Romans 7). No one loves their enemies apart from His supernatural presence.

There is never ever an evil, or bad, or wrong time to obey Jesus.

What you say is just plain ignorant.

You didn't even reply to what I said about the filthy menstrual scripture. Why don't you thank me for what you learned? Maybe you can't see?
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Exactly. You can not get Jesus without repentance. Which is a humble contrite heart that needs Jesus, His forgiveness, His love, His power, His presence to live the way He intends in a close intimate relationship with Him, that naturally by the presence of God loves the way God loves. It begins with repentance. Humility. Any righteouness we could possibly muster up is filthy rags without Him.

How do you ever get that obeying Jesus is a filthy rag?

You were taught wrong about the filthy rag scripture.

See, God did not like it that the Jews would do a righteous act and sacrifice an animal for it's blood for a sin offering but not really be sorry for their sins. Giving a sin offering and not really being sorry for their sins made their blood offering like a filthy menstrual/bloody rag offering.

You seem to have a reading problem.

LA
 

musterion

Well-known member
Romans 13:14

Pretty much wraps it up.

Unbelievers cannot choose either (a) to put on Christ or (b) to walk by the flesh and fulfill its lusts. They cannot put on Christ at all while unbelievers because flesh is all they have.

This is all to, for and about those in Christ.
 

Danoh

New member
Romans 13:14

Pretty much wraps it up.

Unbelievers cannot choose either (a) to put on Christ or (b) to walk by the flesh and fulfill its lusts. They cannot put on Christ at all while unbelievers because flesh is all they have.

This is all to, for and about those in Christ.

I couldn't agree more.

Allow me a ramble...

The same truth is in Ephesians - that of the need to make no provision for the flesh.

Of the need to put off the old, and put on the new...daily.

Another aspect of which is described in Galatians - that of what attempting to serve God as one did under the Law only sets off in one - the lusts of the flesh.

Thus, why the Galatians had ended up at one another's throats - the very enmity that legalism results in.

Anyway...

Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Ephesians 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

There is that, but there is also the fact taught in Romans 7, that putting oneself back under the Law as a hoped for means of the above...only backfires...

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

The Spirit would never lead the Believer to put himself back under the very system that had been meant to set off the flesh "that sin might appear" crystal clear to the individual for what it is - "sin."

Romans 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

As Paul had had to remind Peter when the latter's action had basically amounted to telling those Gentiles that they needed to put themselves under the very system that Paul had taught them was no longer, as it had accomplished what it had been meant to accomplish - set off the bondage of sin in the flesh, that the sinner might see himself for what he was - a sinner in need of a Saviour, and thus, no longer under the Law for righteousness this side of having trusted said Saviour's righteousness...

Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Both, the Israel of God, and the Body of Christ, were now no longer under the Law FOR righteousness.

Rather, the Israel of God now kept it because another aspect of it was its identifying them as the Israel of God in the sight of the nations.

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

In this, the Israel of God also being free from the negative aspect of the Law - it's unbearable burden - they now lived "after the manner of the Gentiles" - "saved even as they" (Acts 15:11) - "even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ" Paul had had to remind Peter.

But they were His "by sight" people; the Law identifying them as such.

Paul, given his experience with these issues with other assemblies elsewhere long his vast understanding of such issues by the time he writes that Jew-Gentile assembly of Body members at Rome; anticipates the many various issues that might come up, and addresses them.

In this, Romans is almost a Bible all by itself...
 

musterion

Well-known member
One of your better rambles. I just don't see ch. 7 as Paul specifically lamenting having put himself back under Law for any reason. I don't believe it indicates anywhere that he ever did.

Nor do I see where any believer is exempt from that same struggle, even despite many of us knowing and standing on our having died positionally to Law and sin. The flesh still wars just the same, whether we reckon on that or not.

Paul stated only that we need not CARRY OUT its lusts -- not that we have been or can be (this side of finally being revealed to be like Him) set free from HAVING them.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Exactly. You can not get Jesus without repentance. Which is a humble contrite heart that needs Jesus, His forgiveness, His love, His power, His presence to live the way He intends in a close intimate relationship with Him, that naturally by the presence of God loves the way God loves. It begins with repentance. Humility. Any righteouness we could possibly muster up is filthy rags without Him.

How do you ever get that obeying Jesus is a filthy rag?

You were taught wrong about the filthy rag scripture.

See, God did not like it that the Jews would do a righteous act and sacrifice an animal for it's blood for a sin offering but not really be sorry for their sins. Giving a sin offering and not really being sorry for their sins made their blood offering like a filthy menstrual/bloody rag offering.

There is never ever an evil, or bad, or wrong time to obey Jesus.

What you say is just plain ignorant.

You didn't even reply to what I said about the filthy menstrual scripture. Why don't you thank me for what you learned? Maybe you can't see?

Obeying Jesus is righteousness, and it is never ever as a filthy rag.

You are an accuser; you only post accusations to me and do not engage in speaking the scriptures.

I am not an accuser as you falsely claim.

I pointed out to you that you misread his post and now you called him ignorant.

If anyone says anything to you, then you come up with all sorts of false accusations.

You have a chip on your shoulder, which will not go away until you stop thinking the worst of people.

(and thinking of yourself as something great)

The only reason you are posting on this board is because you have been thrown off every other one.

So show a little grace when people disagree with you or try to correct you.

You owe poster Gigliotte a public apology.

LA
 

musterion

Well-known member
I am not an accuser as you falsely claim.

I pointed out to you that you misread his post and now you called him ignorant.

If anyone says anything to you, then you come up with all sorts of false accusations.

You have a chip on your shoulder, which will not go away until you stop thinking the worst of people.

(and thinking of yourself as something great)

The only reason you are posting on this board is because you have been thrown off every other one.

So show a little grace when people disagree with you or try to correct you.

You owe poster Gigliotte a public apology.

LA

Now that's a good post. Except for the first line...beheadings...
 

God's Truth

New member
I am not an accuser as you falsely claim.

I pointed out to you that you misread his post and now you called him ignorant.

If anyone says anything to you, then you come up with all sorts of false accusations.

You have a chip on your shoulder, which will not go away until you stop thinking the worst of people.

(and thinking of yourself as something great)

The only reason you are posting on this board is because you have been thrown off every other one.

So show a little grace when people disagree with you or try to correct you.

You owe poster Gigliotte a public apology.

LA

The accuser of the brethren will not give up. You speak all kinds of false things about me.

As for my comment to Jamie G...you are the one who is butting in and and does not understand the context of the discussion in which I corrected Jamie G.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The accuser of the brethren will not give up. You speak all kinds of false things about me.

As for my comment to Jamie G...you are the one who is butting in and and does not understand the context of the discussion in which I corrected Jamie G.

People can only go by what you have written.

You have not told the truth and it is beneath you to admit a mistake and apologize to those you have wronged.

LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I forgive you, Lazy A.

You are saying I have wronged you, when in fact you have wronged another and will not humble yourself and apologize to him.

You said you would ignore me, but in reality you are ignoring Christ, and now you want to appear all clean and white before others who can easily read your posts and see just how wrong you are in your dealings with others.

LA
 

God's Truth

New member
You are saying I have wronged you, when in fact you have wronged another and will not humble yourself and apologize to him.

You said you would ignore me, but in reality you are ignoring Christ,

No, ignoring a false accuser is not ignoring Christ. Ignoring you is not the same as ignoring Christ.

and now you want to appear all clean and white before others who can easily read your posts and see just how wrong you are in your dealings with others.

LA

You are wrong, but I still forgive you.

This site is not for you to judge me and make the threads about me.

This site is not for you to use your accusatory ways.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
No, ignoring a false accuser is not ignoring Christ. Ignoring you is not the same as ignoring Christ.


It is when you are told the truth.



You are wrong, but I still forgive you.

This site is not for you to judge me and make the threads about me.

This site is not for you to use your accusatory ways.

False accuser you are.

Refer to post 129.

LA
 

God's Truth

New member
I couldn't care any less what you the false accuser keeps accusing me. Believe what you want.

You have dishonest scales because you do not like it that I go against you for saying Jesus was not God in heaven before coming to earth; you do not like it that I prove you wrong for saying we have spirits that do not go to heaven and you say our spirits stay with/in our bones; you do not like it that I prove with scripture that your tongue speaking if a copycat from Satan. You do not like it that I tell you that you are trying to be a physic but you fail even at that.
 
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