The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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Caino

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121:7.1 "By the times of Jesus the Jews had arrived at a settled concept of their origin, history, and destiny. They had built up a rigid wall of separation between themselves and the gentile world; they looked upon all gentile ways with utter contempt. They worshiped the letter of the law and indulged a form of self-righteousness based upon the false pride of descent. They had formed preconceived notions regarding the promised Messiah, and most of these expectations envisaged a Messiah who would come as a part of their national and racial history. To the Hebrews of those days Jewish theology was irrevocably settled, forever fixed.

121:7.2 The teachings and practices of Jesus regarding tolerance and kindness ran counter to the long-standing attitude of the Jews toward other peoples whom they considered heathen. For generations the Jews had nourished an attitude toward the outside world which made it impossible for them to accept the Master's teachings about the spiritual brotherhood of man. They were unwilling to share Yahweh on equal terms with the gentiles and were likewise unwilling to accept as the Son of God one who taught such new and strange doctrines.

121:7.3 The scribes, the Pharisees, and the priesthood held the Jews in a terrible bondage of ritualism and legalism, a bondage far more real than that of the Roman political rule. The Jews of Jesus' time were not only held in subjugation to the law but were equally bound by the slavish demands of the traditions, which involved and invaded every domain of personal and social life. These minute regulations of conduct pursued and dominated every loyal Jew, and it is not strange that they promptly rejected one of their number who presumed to ignore their sacred traditions, and who dared to flout their long-honored regulations of social conduct. They could hardly regard with favor the teachings of one who did not hesitate to clash with dogmas which they regarded as having been ordained by Father Abraham himself. Moses had given them their law and they would not compromise. *

121:7.4 By the time of the first century after Christ the spoken interpretation of the law by the recognized teachers, the scribes, had become a higher authority than the written law itself. And all this made it easier for certain religious leaders of the Jews to array the people against the acceptance of a new gospel.

121:7.5 These circumstances rendered it impossible for the Jews to fulfill their divine destiny as messengers of the new gospel of religious freedom and spiritual liberty. They could not break the fetters of tradition. Jeremiah had told of the "law to be written in men's hearts," Ezekiel had spoken of a "new spirit to live in man's soul." and the Psalmist had prayed that God would "create a clean heart within and renew a right spirit." But when the Jewish religion of good works and slavery to law fell victim to the stagnation of traditionalistic inertia, the motion of religious evolution passed westward to the European peoples.

religious
" UB 1955
 

Lon

Well-known member
Show me anywhere in that discourse you responded to.... that is antithetical or antagonistic to anything in the 'Bible'. We're talking about Religion being 'primarily a pursuit of values' - this is a fair and honest evaluation of what 'religion' includes, the recognition and striving towards spiritual values. Do you find something wrong with that?

Yes, as already mentioned, religion is man's efforts. Spirituality is God remolding us into His image. Philippians 2:13 2 Corinthians 5:17

Your religion is about you following or trying to follow an example, just as you are, just as much stumbling as you are prone to. To you it doesn't matter because there is no salvation, just a learning curve (so every cult is a reinvention of 'works' and 'obedience' Jewish theology).

Scripture gives a clear contrast between peoples that your religion has no comprehension of. There is no sheep/goats, wheat/tares. Such is a complete refusal and disregard for the New Testament and its message.

Christianity is not 'try to be like God, try to be good, try to embrace your inner man.'

That's the UB, Mormonism, JW and every other cult and works mentality.

Christianity is opposite that: "You must be born again...if any man is in Christ, he is a new creation...we are God's workmanship...." it is not 'do' but 'become.' It isn't innate. It is supernatural and acted upon us. Every other religion misses this. You have to 'try' in every other religion with what you've got and nothing more. There is no hope in that, it is simply living with the same-ol-same-ol in a world where that nature harms the others of that nature and there is no escape, and no hope. Insanity, it is said, is doing the same thing that never worked, and hoping for a change that has never occurred. I am not sure that 'stupid' or 'insane' or 'retarded' are the appropriate words. "Futile" "meaningless" "empty" and "wasted" seem better descriptions. "Insane" is simply the author's name-calling. Perhaps they hope if the one hearing it hears "are you insane!?" that such would shake someone loose from acting in a futile, meaningless, empty, pointless, wasted manner. I would likely follow whatever is in my nature to follow, and that would be against another's nature, who is following their nature. For me, that was a pointless and meaningless pursuit. If God is not conforming me to His image, then I'm merely following myself and my whims and is rich trying to call that my 'religion.' I'd just be following me. It is my belief, that if I am truly able to follow God, He must more than meet me half-way to make and mold me into the image I am supposed to be. Such is the view of one who believes He is a vessel made and owned by the hands of another. Scripture says to Christians: "You are not your own, you were paid for with a great price." It is the goal of my faith not to be self-willed but Other-willed. I pray that you'd discover that. This is why there is only one way. This 'can' be the only way. All other ways are just expressions of ourselves and whatever whims carry us and please us (whether it is good for us or not makes no difference, we don't tend to care). Because of all this, there is NO way any of us can find our way on our own. It has never worked/can never work. Isaiah 53:6
 

TulipBee

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Show me anywhere in that discourse you responded to.... that is antithetical or antagonistic to anything in the 'Bible'. We're talking about Religion being 'primarily a pursuit of values' - this is a fair and honest evaluation of what 'religion' includes, the recognition and striving towards spiritual values. Do you find something wrong with that?
God speaking isn't religion. It's a fact
 
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Caino

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Yes, as already mentioned, religion is man's efforts. Spirituality is God remolding us into His image. Philippians 2:13 2 Corinthians 5:17

Your religion is about you following or trying to follow an example, just as you are, just as much stumbling as you are prone to. To you it doesn't matter because there is no salvation, just a learning curve (so every cult is a reinvention of 'works' and 'obedience' Jewish theology).

Scripture gives a clear contrast between peoples that your religion has no comprehension of. There is no sheep/goats, wheat/tares. Such is a complete refusal and disregard for the New Testament and its message.

Christianity is not 'try to be like God, try to be good, try to embrace your inner man.'

That's the UB, Mormonism, JW and every other cult and works mentality.

Christianity is opposite that: "You must be born again...if any man is in Christ, he is a new creation...we are God's workmanship...." it is not 'do' but 'become.' It isn't innate. It is supernatural and acted upon us. Every other religion misses this. You have to 'try' in every other religion with what you've got and nothing more. There is no hope in that, it is simply living with the same-ol-same-ol in a world where that nature harms the others of that nature and there is no escape, and no hope. Insanity, it is said, is doing the same thing that never worked, and hoping for a change that has never occurred. I am not sure that 'stupid' or 'insane' or 'retarded' are the appropriate words. "Futile" "meaningless" "empty" and "wasted" seem better descriptions. "Insane" is simply the author's name-calling. Perhaps they hope if the one hearing it hears "are you insane!?" that such would shake someone loose from acting in a futile, meaningless, empty, pointless, wasted manner. I would likely follow whatever is in my nature to follow, and that would be against another's nature, who is following their nature. For me, that was a pointless and meaningless pursuit. If God is not conforming me to His image, then I'm merely following myself and my whims and is rich trying to call that my 'religion.' I'd just be following me. It is my belief, that if I am truly able to follow God, He must more than meet me half-way to make and mold me into the image I am supposed to be. Such is the view of one who believes He is a vessel made and owned by the hands of another. Scripture says to Christians: "You are not your own, you were paid for with a great price." It is the goal of my faith not to be self-willed but Other-willed. I pray that you'd discover that. This is why there is only one way. This 'can' be the only way. All other ways are just expressions of ourselves and whatever whims carry us and please us (whether it is good for us or not makes no difference, we don't tend to care). Because of all this, there is NO way any of us can find our way on our own. It has never worked/can never work. Isaiah 53:6


"Be you perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect".

As we've pointed out, there are conflicting teachings in the New Testament. The original gospel of Jesus overlaid by the confused interpretation of men after Jesus returned to heaven. Christianity is a compromise, it's contaminated by old ideas of Pagan sacrifice for sins.

You come to us with preconceived notions, you're deaf and blind, you can't or won't understand what we are saying.

Jesus point blank refutes your false, ignorant claims:


THE SECOND DISCOURSE ON RELIGION



155:6.1 And so, while they paused in the shade of the hillside, Jesus continued to teach them regarding the religion of the spirit, in substance saying:

155:6.2 You have come out from among those of your fellows who choose to remain satisfied with a religion of mind, who crave security and prefer conformity. You have elected to exchange your feelings of authoritative certainty for the assurances of the spirit of adventurous and progressive faith. You have dared to protest against the grueling bondage of institutional religion and to reject the authority of the traditions of record which are now regarded as the word of God. Our Father did indeed speak through Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, Amos, and Hosea, but he did not cease to minister words of truth to the world when these prophets of old made an end of their utterances. My Father is no respecter of races or generations in that the word of truth is vouchsafed one age and withheld from another. Commit not the folly of calling that divine which is wholly human, and fail not to discern the words of truth which come not through the traditional oracles of supposed inspiration.

155:6.3 I have called upon you to be born again, to be born of the spirit. I have called you out of the darkness of authority and the lethargy of tradition into the transcendent light of the realization of the possibility of making for yourselves the greatest discovery possible for the human soul to make—the supernal experience of finding God for yourself, in yourself, and of yourself, and of doing all this as a fact in your own personal experience. And so may you pass from death to life, from the authority of tradition to the experience of knowing God; thus will you pass from darkness to light, from a racial faith inherited to a personal faith achieved by actual experience; and thereby will you progress from a theology of mind handed down by your ancestors to a true religion of spirit which shall be built up in your souls as an eternal endowment.

155:6.4 Your religion shall change from the mere intellectual belief in traditional authority to the actual experience of that living faith which is able to grasp the reality of God and all that relates to the divine spirit of the Father. The religion of the mind ties you hopelessly to the past; the religion of the spirit consists in progressive revelation and ever beckons you on toward higher and holier achievements in spiritual ideals and eternal realities.

155:6.5 While the religion of authority may impart a present feeling of settled security, you pay for such a transient satisfaction the price of the loss of your spiritual freedom and religious liberty. My Father does not require of you as the price of entering the kingdom of heaven that you should force yourself to subscribe to a belief in things which are spiritually repugnant, unholy, and untruthful. It is not required of you that your own sense of mercy, justice, and truth should be outraged by submission to an outworn system of religious forms and ceremonies. The religion of the spirit leaves you forever free to follow the truth wherever the leadings of the spirit may take you. And who can judge—perhaps this spirit may have something to impart to this generation which other generations have refused to hear?

155:6.6 Shame on those false religious teachers who would drag hungry souls back into the dim and distant past and there leave them! And so are these unfortunate persons doomed to become frightened by every new discovery, while they are discomfited by every new revelation of truth. The prophet who said, “He will be kept in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on God.” was not a mere intellectual believer in authoritative theology. This truth-knowing human had discovered God; he was not merely talking about God.

155:6.7 I admonish you to give up the practice of always quoting the prophets of old and praising the heroes of Israel, and instead aspire to become living prophets of the Most High and spiritual heroes of the coming kingdom. To honor the God-knowing leaders of the past may indeed be worth while, but why, in so doing, should you sacrifice the supreme experience of human existence: finding God for yourselves and knowing him in your own souls?

155:6.8 Every race of mankind has its own mental outlook upon human existence; therefore must the religion of the mind ever run true to these various racial viewpoints. Never can the religions of authority come to unification. Human unity and mortal brotherhood can be achieved only by and through the superendowment of the religion of the spirit. Racial minds may differ, but all mankind is indwelt by the same divine and eternal spirit. The hope of human brotherhood can only be realized when, and as, the divergent mind religions of authority become impregnated with, and overshadowed by, the unifying and ennobling religion of the spirit—the religion of personal spiritual experience.

155:6.9 The religions of authority can only divide men and set them in conscientious array against each other; the religion of the spirit will progressively draw men together and cause them to become understandingly sympathetic with one another. The religions of authority require of men uniformity in belief, but this is impossible of realization in the present state of the world. The religion of the spirit requires only unity of experience—uniformity of destiny—making full allowance for diversity of belief. The religion of the spirit requires only uniformity of insight, not uniformity of viewpoint and outlook. The religion of the spirit does not demand uniformity of intellectual views, only unity of spirit feeling. The religions of authority crystallize into lifeless creeds; the religion of the spirit grows into the increasing joy and liberty of ennobling deeds of loving service and merciful ministration.

155:6.10 But watch, lest any of you look with disdain upon the children of Abraham because they have fallen on these evil days of traditional barrenness. Our forefathers gave themselves up to the persistent and passionate search for God, and they found him as no other whole race of men have ever known him since the times of Adam, who knew much of this as he was himself a Son of God. My Father has not failed to mark the long and untiring struggle of Israel, ever since the days of Moses, to find God and to know God. For weary generations the Jews have not ceased to toil, sweat, groan, travail, and endure the sufferings and experience the sorrows of a misunderstood and despised people, all in order that they might come a little nearer the discovery of the truth about God. And, notwithstanding all the failures and falterings of Israel, our fathers progressively, from Moses to the times of Amos and Hosea, did reveal increasingly to the whole world an ever clearer and more truthful picture of the eternal God. And so was the way prepared for the still greater revelation of the Father which you have been called to share.

155:6.11 Never forget there is only one adventure which is more satisfying and thrilling than the attempt to discover the will of the living God, and that is the supreme experience of honestly trying to do that divine will. And fail not to remember that the will of God can be done in any earthly occupation. Some callings are not holy and others secular. All things are sacred in the lives of those who are spirit led; that is, subordinated to truth, ennobled by love, dominated by mercy, and restrained by fairness — justice. The spirit which my Father and I shall send into the world is not only the Spirit of Truth but also the spirit of idealistic beauty.

155:6.12 You must cease to seek for the word of God only on the pages of the olden records of theologic authority. Those who are born of the spirit of God shall henceforth discern the word of God regardless of whence it appears to take origin. Divine truth must not be discounted because the channel of its bestowal is apparently human. Many of your brethren have minds which accept the theory of God while they spiritually fail to realize the presence of God. And that is just the reason why I have so often taught you that the kingdom of heaven can best be realized by acquiring the spiritual attitude of a sincere child. It is not the mental immaturity of the child that I commend to you but rather the spiritual simplicity of such an easy-believing and fully-trusting little one. It is not so important that you should know about the fact of God as that you should increasingly grow in the ability to feel the presence of God.

155:6.13 When you once begin to find God in your soul, presently you will begin to discover him in other men's souls and eventually in all the creatures and creations of a mighty universe. But what chance does the Father have to appear as a God of supreme loyalties and divine ideals in the souls of men who give little or no time to the thoughtful contemplation of such eternal realities? While the mind is not the seat of the spiritual nature, it is indeed the gateway thereto.

155:6.14 But do not make the mistake of trying to prove to other men that you have found God; you cannot consciously produce such valid proof, albeit there are two positive and powerful demonstrations of the fact that you are God-knowing, and they are:


1. The fruits of the spirit of God showing forth in your daily routine life.

2. The fact that your entire life plan furnishes positive proof that you have unreservedly risked everything you are and have on the adventure of survival after death in the pursuit of the hope of finding the God of eternity, whose presence you have foretasted in time.

155:6.17 Now, mistake not, my Father will ever respond to the faintest flicker of faith. He takes note of the physical and superstitious emotions of the primitive man. And with those honest but fearful souls whose faith is so weak that it amounts to little more than an intellectual conformity to a passive attitude of assent to religions of authority, the Father is ever alert to honor and foster even all such feeble attempts to reach out for him. But you who have been called out of darkness into the light are expected to believe with a whole heart; your faith shall dominate the combined attitudes of body, mind, and spirit.

155:6.18 You are my apostles, and to you religion shall not become a theologic shelter to which you may flee in fear of facing the rugged realities of spiritual progress and idealistic adventure; but rather shall your religion become the fact of real experience which testifies that God has found you, idealized, ennobled, and spiritualized you, and that you have enlisted in the eternal adventure of finding the God who has thus found and sonshipped you.


155:6.19 And when Jesus had finished speaking, he beckoned to Andrew and, pointing to the west toward Phoenicia, said: “Let us be on our way.”
 

Caino

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Banned
Matthew 21:33-46 reads:

“Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower and he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit and the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one and stoned another. Again he sent other servants, more than the first and they did likewise to them. Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him. “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?” They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.” Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected


So what did they do? They concluded the Son was supposed to be rejected, that it was the will of the Landowner for his servants AND his Son to be rejected. In their primitive minds they interpreted the killing of the Son as a final sacrifice. His original message was forgotten, replaced by the simpler belief in human sacrifice to please God. The religion that bears his name has been stuck there ever since.
 

Lon

Well-known member
"Be you perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect".

As we've pointed out, there are conflicting teachings in the New Testament. The original gospel of Jesus overlaid by the confused interpretation of men after Jesus returned to heaven. Christianity is a compromise, it's contaminated by old ideas of Pagan sacrifice for sins.

You come to us with preconceived notions, you're deaf and blind, you can't or won't understand what we are saying.
Er, no, but it can be said to go both ways. Pay attention please: For the UB and all other man-made religions, man has nothing really to do but use his already given abilities. Here is the switch-up: In Christianity, man must be a new creation, remade and indwelled by God to be something else. Note that this is not of himself/herself (Ephesians 2:8&9). That is an very large difference and contrast from every other religion. It is the single-most feature of Christianity or there would be no need to move from Judaism, or to become a Mormon, or a Urantian, Buddhist, or New-Age Eastern spiritualist. All of these have something in common that Christianity does not: They are all men pretty much the same with no supernatural enablement or ability. "You must be born-again" is not something you or I are capable of. Either we are 'born again' (passive it is enacted 'upon' us) or we are not. There is no 'do' or 'try.'
Jesus point blank refutes your false, ignorant claims
"If" he actually said it. I don't buy the Urantia stuff. I've even shown you it is historically unreliable and untrustworthy :(
THE SECOND DISCOURSE ON RELIGION

155:6.1 And so, while they paused in the shade of the hillside, Jesus continued to teach them regarding the religion of the spirit, in substance saying:

155:6.2 You have come out from among those of your fellows who choose to remain satisfied with a religion of mind, who crave security and prefer conformity. You have elected to exchange your feelings of authoritative certainty for the assurances of the spirit of adventurous and progressive faith. You have dared to protest against the grueling bondage of institutional religion and to reject the authority of the traditions of record which are now regarded as the word of God. Our Father did indeed speak through Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, Amos, and Hosea, but he did not cease to minister words of truth to the world when these prophets of old made an end of their utterances. My Father is no respecter of races or generations in that the word of truth is vouchsafed one age and withheld from another. Commit not the folly of calling that divine which is wholly human, and fail not to discern the words of truth which come not through the traditional oracles of supposed inspiration .[/COLOR]

This is very much the repeated language of and has every earmark of a cult. Why not JW or Mormons? Why not BaHai or the Universal Church? The UB offers absolutely nothing in addition every cult that already exists against the clear teaching of the Bible. There is no need to go and invent a new one when there are so many already doing this rejection nonsense.

155:6.3 I have called upon you to be born again, to be born of the spirit.
:nono: You CANNOT 'be born-again.' You either are you are you are not. It is done to you, you do not 'born-again' yourself.

I have called you out of the darkness of authority and the lethargy of tradition into the transcendent light of the realization of the possibility of making for yourselves....
:plain: Seriously, you CANNOT see that this is the voice of a guy making up his own religion in a NY apartment??? Seriously? :plain: Wake up, Caino!!!

the greatest discovery possible for the human soul to make—the supernal experience of finding God for yourself, in yourself
:doh: There is NOTHING ever in any scripture that even resembles this garbage, Caino!!!


and of yourself, and of doing all this as a fact in your own personal experience.
"And the Urantia Jesus said, 'Just be yourself.'" :doh: Come on Caino! For crying out loud!


Spoiler
And so may you pass from death to life, from the authority of tradition to the experience of knowing God; thus will you pass from darkness to light, from a racial faith inherited to a personal faith achieved by actual experience; and thereby will you progress from a theology of mind handed down by your ancestors to a true religion of spirit which shall be built up in your souls as an eternal endowment.

155:6.4 Your religion shall change from the mere intellectual belief in traditional authority to the actual experience of that living faith which is able to grasp the reality of God and all that relates to the divine spirit of the Father. The religion of the mind ties you hopelessly to the past; the religion of the spirit consists in progressive revelation and ever beckons you on toward higher and holier achievements in spiritual ideals and eternal realities.

155:6.5 While the religion of authority may impart a present feeling of settled security, you pay for such a transient satisfaction the price of the loss of your spiritual freedom and religious liberty. My Father does not require of you as the price of entering the kingdom of heaven that you should force yourself to subscribe to a belief in things which are spiritually repugnant, unholy, and untruthful. It is not required of you that your own sense of mercy, justice, and truth should be outraged by submission to an outworn system of religious forms and ceremonies. The religion of the spirit leaves you forever free to follow the truth wherever the leadings of the spirit may take you. And who can judge—perhaps this spirit may have something to impart to this generation which other generations have refused to hear?

155:6.6 Shame on those false religious teachers who would drag hungry souls back into the dim and distant past and there leave them! And so are these unfortunate persons doomed to become frightened by every new discovery, while they are discomfited by every new revelation of truth. The prophet who said, “He will be kept in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on God.” was not a mere intellectual believer in authoritative theology. This truth-knowing human had discovered God; he was not merely talking about God.

155:6.7 I admonish you to give up the practice of always quoting the prophets of old and praising the heroes of Israel, and instead aspire to become living prophets of the Most High and spiritual heroes of the coming kingdom. To honor the God-knowing leaders of the past may indeed be worth while, but why, in so doing, should you sacrifice the supreme experience of human existence: finding God for yourselves and knowing him in your own souls?

155:6.8 Every race of mankind has its own mental outlook upon human existence; therefore must the religion of the mind ever run true to these various racial viewpoints. Never can the religions of authority come to unification. Human unity and mortal brotherhood can be achieved only by and through the superendowment of the religion of the spirit. Racial minds may differ, but all mankind is indwelt by the same divine and eternal spirit. The hope of human brotherhood can only be realized when, and as, the divergent mind religions of authority become impregnated with, and overshadowed by, the unifying and ennobling religion of the spirit—the religion of personal spiritual experience.

155:6.9 The religions of authority can only divide men and set them in conscientious array against each other; the religion of the spirit will progressively draw men together and cause them to become understandingly sympathetic with one another. The religions of authority require of men uniformity in belief, but this is impossible of realization in the present state of the world. The religion of the spirit requires only unity of experience—uniformity of destiny—making full allowance for diversity of belief. The religion of the spirit requires only uniformity of insight, not uniformity of viewpoint and outlook. The religion of the spirit does not demand uniformity of intellectual views, only unity of spirit feeling. The religions of authority crystallize into lifeless creeds; the religion of the spirit grows into the increasing joy and liberty of ennobling deeds of loving service and merciful ministration.

155:6.10 But watch, lest any of you look with disdain upon the children of Abraham because they have fallen on these evil days of traditional barrenness. Our forefathers gave themselves up to the persistent and passionate search for God, and they found him as no other whole race of men have ever known him since the times of Adam, who knew much of this as he was himself a Son of God. My Father has not failed to mark the long and untiring struggle of Israel, ever since the days of Moses, to find God and to know God. For weary generations the Jews have not ceased to toil, sweat, groan, travail, and endure the sufferings and experience the sorrows of a misunderstood and despised people, all in order that they might come a little nearer the discovery of the truth about God. And, notwithstanding all the failures and falterings of Israel, our fathers progressively, from Moses to the times of Amos and Hosea, did reveal increasingly to the whole world an ever clearer and more truthful picture of the eternal God. And so was the way prepared for the still greater revelation of the Father which you have been called to share.

155:6.11 Never forget there is only one adventure which is more satisfying and thrilling than the attempt to discover the will of the living God, and that is the supreme experience of honestly trying to do that divine will. And fail not to remember that the will of God can be done in any earthly occupation. Some callings are not holy and others secular. All things are sacred in the lives of those who are spirit led; that is, subordinated to truth, ennobled by love, dominated by mercy, and restrained by fairness — justice. The spirit which my Father and I shall send into the world is not only the Spirit of Truth but also the spirit of idealistic beauty.

155:6.12 You must cease to seek for the word of God only on the pages of the olden records of theologic authority. Those who are born of the spirit of God shall henceforth discern the word of God regardless of whence it appears to take origin. Divine truth must not be discounted because the channel of its bestowal is apparently human. Many of your brethren have minds which accept the theory of God while they spiritually fail to realize the presence of God. And that is just the reason why I have so often taught you that the kingdom of heaven can best be realized by acquiring the spiritual attitude of a sincere child. It is not the mental immaturity of the child that I commend to you but rather the spiritual simplicity of such an easy-believing and fully-trusting little one. It is not so important that you should know about the fact of God as that you should increasingly grow in the ability to feel the presence of God.

155:6.13 When you once begin to find God in your soul, presently you will begin to discover him in other men's souls and eventually in all the creatures and creations of a mighty universe. But what chance does the Father have to appear as a God of supreme loyalties and divine ideals in the souls of men who give little or no time to the thoughtful contemplation of such eternal realities? While the mind is not the seat of the spiritual nature, it is indeed the gateway thereto.

155:6.14 But do not make the mistake of trying to prove to other men that you have found God; you cannot consciously produce such valid proof, albeit there are two positive and powerful demonstrations of the fact that you are God-knowing, and they are:


1. The fruits of the spirit of God showing forth in your daily routine life.

2. The fact that your entire life plan furnishes positive proof that you have unreservedly risked everything you are and have on the adventure of survival after death in the pursuit of the hope of finding the God of eternity, whose presence you have foretasted in time.

155:6.17 Now, mistake not, my Father will ever respond to the faintest flicker of faith. He takes note of the physical and superstitious emotions of the primitive man. And with those honest but fearful souls whose faith is so weak that it amounts to little more than an intellectual conformity to a passive attitude of assent to religions of authority, the Father is ever alert to honor and foster even all such feeble attempts to reach out for him. But you who have been called out of darkness into the light are expected to believe with a whole heart; your faith shall dominate the combined attitudes of body, mind, and spirit.

155:6.18 You are my apostles, and to you religion shall not become a theologic shelter to which you may flee in fear of facing the rugged realities of spiritual progress and idealistic adventure; but rather shall your religion become the fact of real experience which testifies that God has found you, idealized, ennobled, and spiritualized you, and that you have enlisted in the eternal adventure of finding the God who has thus found and sonshipped you.
Spoiler


155:6.19 And when Jesus had finished speaking, he beckoned to Andrew and, pointing to the west toward Phoenicia, said: “Let us be on our way.”
:yawn: :plain:
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Er, no, but it can be said to go both ways. Pay attention please: For the UB and all other man-made religions, man has nothing really to do but use his already given abilities. Here is the switch-up: In Christianity, man must be a new creation, remade and indwelled by God to be something else. Note that this is not of himself/herself (Ephesians 2:8&9). That is an very large difference and contrast from every other religion. It is the single-most feature of Christianity or there would be no need to move from Judaism, or to become a Mormon, or a Urantian, Buddhist, or New-Age Eastern spiritualist. All of these have something in common that Christianity does not: They are all men pretty much the same with no supernatural enablement or ability. "You must be born-again" is not something you or I are capable of. Either we are 'born again' (passive it is enacted 'upon' us) or we are not. There is no 'do' or 'try.'
"If" he actually said it. I don't buy the Urantia stuff. I've even shown you it is historically unreliable and untrustworthy :(

This is very much the repeated language of and has every earmark of a cult. Why not JW or Mormons? Why not BaHai or the Universal Church? The UB offers absolutely nothing in addition every cult that already exists against the clear teaching of the Bible. There is no need to go and invent a new one when there are so many already doing this rejection nonsense.

:nono: You CANNOT 'be born-again.' You either are you are you are not. It is done to you, you do not 'born-again' yourself.

:plain: Seriously, you CANNOT see that this is the voice of a guy making up his own religion in a NY apartment??? Seriously? :plain: Wake up, Caino!!!

:doh: There is NOTHING ever in any scripture that even resembles this garbage, Caino!!!


"And the Urantia Jesus said, 'Just be yourself.'" :doh: Come on Caino! For crying out loud!


:yawn: :plain:

You have the same attitude towards the UB as the Jews did towards Jesus.

It's in your bible as well:

John 3:3

Jesus and Nicodemus

…2this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." 3Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"…


Faith as well as the spiritual rebirth is a gift not an accomplishment.

The Urantia Book reveals much more about what Jesus taught and said, it also helps sort out the actual history of the Bible where it is wrong.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Faith as well as the spiritual rebirth is a gift not an accomplishment.
That's a Biblical concept. Your quote from the UB said exactly the opposite. Go back to your Bible, any of us can help you through the hard parts you find incredulous. They aren't you just gave up when you shouldn't have, especially when you just told me the opposite of what the UB says.

The Urantia Book reveals much more about what Jesus taught and said, it also helps sort out the actual history of the Bible where it is wrong.
:nono: and :nono:
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
That's a Biblical concept. Your quote from the UB said exactly the opposite. Go back to your Bible, any of us can help you through the hard parts you find incredulous. They aren't you just gave up when you shouldn't have, especially when you just told me the opposite of what the UB says.


:nono: and :nono:

You just bluff when you are shown to be wrong. You should look into that.


THE VISIT WITH NICODEMUS



142:6.1 One evening at the home of Flavius there came to see Jesus one Nicodemus, a wealthy and elderly member of the Jewish Sanhedrin. He had heard much about the teachings of this Galilean, and so he went one afternoon to hear him as he taught in the temple courts. He would have gone often to hear Jesus teach, but he feared to be seen by the people in attendance upon his teaching, for already were the rulers of the Jews so at variance with Jesus that no member of the Sanhedrin would want to be identified in any open manner with him. Accordingly, Nicodemus had arranged with Andrew to see Jesus privately and after nightfall on this particular evening. Peter, James, and James were in Flavius's garden when the interview began, but later they all went into the house where the discourse continued.

142:6.2 In receiving Nicodemus, Jesus showed no particular deference; in talking with him, there was no compromise or undue persuasiveness. The Master made no attempt to repulse his secretive caller, nor did he employ sarcasm. In all his dealings with the distinguished visitor, Jesus was calm, earnest, and dignified. Nicodemus was not an official delegate of the Sanhedrin; he came to see Jesus wholly because of his personal and sincere interest in the Master's teachings.

142:6.3 Upon being presented by Flavius, Nicodemus said: “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher sent by God, for no mere man could so teach unless God were with him. And I am desirous of knowing more about your teachings regarding the coming kingdom.”

142:6.4 Jesus answered Nicodemus: “Verily, verily, I say toyou, Nicodemus, except a man be born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Then replied Nicodemus: “But how can a man be born again when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born.”

142:6.5 Jesus said: “Nevertheless, I declare to you, except a man be born of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. But you should not marvel that I said you must be born from above. When the wind blows, you hear the rustle of the leaves, but you do not see the wind—whence it comes or whither it goes—and so it is with everyone born of the spirit. With the eyes of the flesh you can behold the manifestations of the spirit, but you cannot actually discern the spirit.”

142:6.6 Nicodemus replied: “But I do not understand—how can that be?” Said Jesus: “Can it be that you are a teacher in Israel and yet ignorant of all this? It becomes, then, the duty of those who know about the realities of the spirit to reveal these things to those who discern only the manifestations of the material world. But will you believe us if we tell you of the heavenly truths? Do you have the courage, Nicodemus, to believe in one who has descended from heaven, even the Son of Man?”

142:6.7 And Nicodemus said: “But how can I begin to lay hold upon this spirit which is to remake me in preparation for entering into the kingdom?” Jesus answered: “Already does the spirit of the Father in heaven indwell you. If you would be led by this spirit from above, very soon would you begin to see with the eyes of the spirit, and then by the wholehearted choice of spirit guidance would you be born of the spirit since your only purpose in living would be to do the will of your Father who is in heaven. And so finding yourself born of the spirit and happily in the kingdom of God, you would begin to bear in your daily life the abundant fruits of the spirit.”


142:6.8 Nicodemus was thoroughly sincere. He was deeply impressed but went away bewildered. Nicodemus was accomplished in self-development, in self-restraint, and even in high moral qualities. He was refined, egoistic, and altruistic; but he did not know how to submit his will to the will of the divine Father as a little child is willing to submit to the guidance and leading of a wise and loving earthly father, thereby becoming in reality a son of God, a progressive heir of the eternal kingdom.

142:6.9 But Nicodemus did summon faith enough to lay hold of the kingdom. He faintly protested when his colleagues of the Sanhedrin sought to condemn Jesus without a hearing; and with Joseph of Arimathea, he later boldly acknowledged his faith and claimed the body of Jesus, even when most of the disciples had fled in fear from the scenes of their Master's final suffering and death." UB 1955
 
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freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
facts and truth...........

facts and truth...........

God speaking isn't religion. It's a fact


'God' speaks thru creation (all that is). You assume 'God' only speaks thru one book, and that book is inerrant, infallible, final or absolute, which is an illogical notion. Truth can be shared or revealed in any religious or philosophical writings and is not limited to any one religious cult-ure or demograph. What you have is a collection of books written by various authors and communities, written with their own purpose and bias, which give room for fictional doctoring and crafting the 'myth' to serve that community. That's all you got with the 'Bible', which may have parts that are more or less 'inspired'.

The UB shares much more and its 'truth' will speak for itself wherever it is shared, while embracing a much wider spectrum and diversity of subjects that what the Bible offers, since the latter is limited to its own cultural-context and scribal dictators, again serving the community agenda. On the very subject of God's nature, character and being, within the cosmic hierarchy and the very beginning of creation, the 'Foreward' itself is very illuminating, but one must consider the terms described and the wider cosmology of creation itself, in the papers. I may start a dialogue/commentary on the Foreward soon, as time allows.

Remember, 'God' (divine reality, light, truth, holy spirit, consciousness) is not limited to any book, not even the UB, but some books offer a better more comprehensive description of reality and the cosmos. 'God' being infinite rules out any narrow pre-scription of religious terms and assumptions, and inspires the soul to open itself to what is truly 'infinite'. In the meantime we are to learn the 'terms' provided within any revelation, if we are to expand God-consciousness.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
That's a Biblical concept. Your quote from the UB said exactly the opposite. Go back to your Bible, any of us can help you through the hard parts you find incredulous. They aren't you just gave up when you shouldn't have, especially when you just told me the opposite of what the UB says.


:nono: and :nono:

If you read all of Part 4 and what is expanded and paraphrased as Jesus teaching, you may form a different opinion from the one you've already assumed. In the gospels alone, Jesus advocates an active religious life of good works and service. The Golden Rule holds, and even the law of karma, since all actions have related consequences, its just the nature of thought and action (universal law). - "what measure you give out, will come back to you"...."as you sow, so shall you reap".

In Matthew (the writer writing in interest of the Jews), Jesus upholds the law, and advocates in doing the good works it prescribes, if one would see life and enjoy it to the full. The gospel of John presents a more greek-gnostic synthesis of a spiritualized form of 'faith', so the writers of that gospel hone their gospel a bit differently, again reflecting the mind/agenda/philosophy of the writer, ....naturally.

Jesus discussion with Nathaniel shared here still holds. Why be bound to the past or any religious dogma, when you can be free?
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Freelight,

I don't see the ub as a viable source since it's a work of fiction. In other words, I don't care what the stance of the ub is. The urantia UFO cult may respect the ub, but I don't.

If you're not interested in the subject you're free to spend your time elsewhere. Sadly since you haven't even gotten past the Foreward of the UB, let alone the first 5 papers (they are not even that long a read) you've haven't a clue of what your dismissing, just a preconception misconstrued in so many ways.

You've also been corrected (many times, and its getting ridiculous) about your false claim of this having anything whatsoever to do with UFOs. It does not.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
drivel. mumbo jumbo


The same could be said about some of the books you respect, including the Bible which is just a collection of books and letters written by different authors with different agendas and situational-contexts. Bibles of various kinds abound in the world. Nothing special really....except in the content and how that is 'translated'. Welcome to humanity.

Also while you're at it, read the Foreward and first 5 papers and see if that qualifies as 'mumbo jumbo'. There's a lot of mumbo jumbo out there, but some things are cleared up only if/when you understand the terms and meanings of the writing within its proper context. A little education can do wonders while ignorance and presumption can only retard progress. If one chooses their own golden calves, gods, idols or concepts over others, that is fine, we have the freedom to do so, the Universe is a wonderful place. But stay open to reconsider all your beliefs, opinions and assumptions, since they are subject to change.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
You should be exposed to the Bible

Man has been exposed to it for centuries, and what has it done for the world? An honest question. Much good and bad has come from 'religions of the book', and many crusades and travesties to boot which have brought suffering and bondage to the human race. On that note we will quote Paul, that "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life",....it is then a matter of how we practice and interpret our religious concepts and ideals, in the light of spiritual truth and living. - then we can bear fruit that endures, since it springs from eternal values and true religious principles.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Freelight, this cuts to the chase on the issue:

IN RELATION TO RIGHTEOUSNESS



170:3.1 Jesus was always trying to impress upon his apostles and disciples that they must acquire, by faith, a righteousness which would exceed the righteousness of slavish works which some of the scribes and Pharisees paraded so vaingloriously before the world.

170:3.2 Though Jesus taught that faith, simple childlike belief, is the key to the door of the kingdom, he also taught that, having entered the door, there are the progressive steps of righteousness which every believing child must ascend in order to grow up to the full stature of the robust sons of God.

170:3.3 It is in the consideration of the technique of receiving God's forgiveness that the attainment of the righteousness of the kingdom is revealed. Faith is the price you pay for entrance into the family of God; but forgiveness is the act of God which accepts your faith as the price of admission. And the reception of the forgiveness of God by a kingdom believer involves a definite and actual experience and consists in the following four steps, the kingdom steps of inner righteousness:


1. God's forgiveness is made actually available and is personally experienced by man just in so far as he forgives his fellows.
2. Man will not truly forgive his fellows unless he loves them as himself.
3. To thus love your neighbor as yourself is the highest ethics.
4. Moral conduct, true righteousness, becomes, then, the natural result of such love.

In the Hospital by Vasily Vereschagin 170:3.8 It therefore is evident that the true and inner religion of the kingdom unfailingly and increasingly tends to manifest itself in practical avenues of social service. Jesus taught a living religion that impelled its believers to engage in the doing of loving service. But Jesus did not put ethics in the place of religion. He taught religion as a cause and ethics as a result.

170:3.9 The righteousness of any act must be measured by the motive; the highest forms of good are therefore unconscious. Jesus was never concerned with morals or ethics as such. He was wholly concerned with that inward and spiritual fellowship with God the Father which so certainly and directly manifests itself as outward and loving service for man. He taught that the religion of the kingdom is a genuine personal experience which no man can contain within himself; that the consciousness of being a member of the family of believers leads inevitably to the practice of the precepts of the family conduct, the service of one's brothers and sisters in the effort to enhance and enlarge the brotherhood.

The Wanderer by Vasily Perov 170:3.10 The religion of the kingdom is personal, individual; the fruits, the results, are familial, social. Jesus never failed to exalt the sacredness of the individual as contrasted with the community. But he also recognized that man develops his character by unselfish service; that he unfolds his moral nature in loving relations with his fellows.

170:3.11 By teaching that the kingdom is within, by exalting the individual, Jesus struck the deathblow of the old society in that he ushered in the new dispensation of true social righteousness. This new order of society the world has little known because it has refused to practice the principles of the gospel of the kingdom of heaven. And when this kingdom of spiritual pre-eminence does come upon the earth, it will not be manifested in mere improved social and material conditions, but rather in the glories of those enhanced and enriched spiritual values which are characteristic of the approaching age of improved human relations and advancing spiritual attainments." UB 1955
 

journey

New member
The ub is poor fiction, but the urantia UFO cult loves it. Thankfully, nobody on TOL has been sucked into this garbage.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Why be bound to the past or any religious dogma, when you can be free?

Again, just the opposite. Every religion that is 'just be yourself' or 'look into yourself to see God' is understandable, and even what God appeals to in the OT BUT, the unfolding of that whole story is that man, though originally made in God's image, is broken and importantly, unable. If Ephesians 2:10 is not true, then none of us has hope. We'd be stuck here forever, despite the power of positive thinking. It is like a world trying to jump a 9 foot high-bar in the Olympics....forever :(
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
'God' speaks thru creation (all that is). You assume 'God' only speaks thru one book, and that book is inerrant, infallible, final or absolute, which is an illogical notion. Truth can be shared or revealed in any religious or philosophical writings and is not limited to any one religious cult-ure or demograph. What you have is a collection of books written by various authors and communities, written with their own purpose and bias, which give room for fictional doctoring and crafting the 'myth' to serve that community. That's all you got with the 'Bible', which may have parts that are more or less 'inspired'.

The UB shares much more and its 'truth' will speak for itself wherever it is shared, while embracing a much wider spectrum and diversity of subjects that what the Bible offers, since the latter is limited to its own cultural-context and scribal dictators, again serving the community agenda. On the very subject of God's nature, character and being, within the cosmic hierarchy and the very beginning of creation, the 'Foreward' itself is very illuminating, but one must consider the terms described and the wider cosmology of creation itself, in the papers. I may start a dialogue/commentary on the Foreward soon, as time allows.

Remember, 'God' (divine reality, light, truth, holy spirit, consciousness) is not limited to any book, not even the UB, but some books offer a better more comprehensive description of reality and the cosmos. 'God' being infinite rules out any narrow pre-scription of religious terms and assumptions, and inspires the soul to open itself to what is truly 'infinite'. In the meantime we are to learn the 'terms' provided within any revelation, if we are to expand God-consciousness.
Some are guesswork.
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
Man has been exposed to it for centuries, and what has it done for the world? An honest question. Much good and bad has come from 'religions of the book', and many crusades and travesties to boot which have brought suffering and bondage to the human race. On that note we will quote Paul, that "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life",....it is then a matter of how we practice and interpret our religious concepts and ideals, in the light of spiritual truth and living. - then we can bear fruit that endures, since it springs from eternal values and true religious principles.
Unregenerates are not happy with the bible
 
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