the history of Islam

[Crucible]

I always find it a little bit comical listening to the critiques from Christians of Islam. While its certainly a faith with pagan roots its contribution to Western Civilisation is immense.
Within a century of Muḥammad’s death, an Islamic Arabic empire, larger than the Roman Empire at its peak, stretched from India across North Africa to Spain, helping transmit inventions that enriched Western civilization. It made outstanding contributions in the fields of law, mathematics, astronomy, history, literature, geography, philosophy, architecture, medicine, music, and the social sciences. But history seems to be conviently revised these days to suit the political dichotomy of 'Islamic Terrorism'.

That's all a bit exaggerated, and attempts to undermine the fact that Muslims have had it out for Christianity from their very beginning. They pretty much rose as a nation by the blood of their swords and it's been that way since- because it is fundamentally a religion of war. They aren't looking for providence like the Jews, they are looking to literally deliver their kingdom to the corners of the Earth.

So there you go

And

The Muslims had their sciences, philosophies, literature- and we had ours. There was little collaboration of these things.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

That's all a bit exaggerated

Which bit is exaggerated? Care to point it out?

and attempts to undermine the fact that Muslims have had it out for Christianity from their very beginning.

This is nonsense. Mohammed wasnt interested in Christianity. While attempts were made after Mohammed died to convert Christians Mohammeds initial intentions were political, in order to unite the warring Arab tribes of Arabia and consolidate his power under the guise of Islam.

They pretty much rose as a nation by the blood of their swords and it's been that way since- because it is fundamentally a religion of war.

That sounds alot like Christendom to me. Although the moral relativism logic to me is pointless I take it by this sentence you're not familiar with Christendoms storied history of depraved atrocitys against humanity the WORLD over for the last 2000 years which dwarf Islam by comparison?

They aren't looking for providence like the Jews, they are looking to literally deliver their kingdom to the corners of the Earth.

But that's EXACTLY what virtually EVERY one of the major religions has done, especially Christendom via the Catholic Church. So why is your eye so critical of Islam when Christendom is equally as guilty of the same 'crime' you're levelling against Islam?

In additon as a so called Christian are you not familiar with the Temporal Power of the Catholic Church/Vatican which claimed to rule the entire Earth in the name of Christ and St Peters pence? In fact the Catholic Churches spurious claim to the entire Earth led in part to the 'discovery' of America by Columbus which resulted in the genocide of the so called Amerindians all with the tactic blessing and support of the Catholic Church as they sought to Christianize the heathens of America whilst increasing their temporal power by plundering the Americas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_power_(papal)

The Muslims had their sciences, philosophies, literature- and we had ours. There was little collaboration of these things.

You're obviously not to au fait with history nor the so called Islamic Golden Age. Goodness me the influence of Islam on the West is well documented. To claim both developed in a vacuum with no contact or collaboration displays a stunning amount of selective historical ignorance that frankly is intellectually dishonest or blindingly ignorant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_influence_on_medieval_Europe

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

A significant portion of Western culture was infuenced entirely by Eastern cultures, namely Christianity (an Eastern religion of origin), Islam and Arabic culture. The cultural interchange between the East and the West was in place long before Mohammed was even born. That influence developed significantly under Islam and the various Islamic conquests that stretched as far as Spain. Conversely Europe on the other hand was going through a period academics term the "Dark Ages".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_(historiography)

 

[Crucible]

Which bit is exaggerated? Care to point it out?

You're trying to insinuate that the Muslims are something we should be thankful for- the biggest contribution they've made is death.

This is nonsense. Mohammed wasnt interested in Christianity. While attempts were made after Mohammed died to convert Christians Mohammeds initial intentions were political, in order to unite the warring Arab tribes of Arabia and consolidate his power under the guise of Islam.

Christianity was already the state religion of Rome and Greece. Mohammad was a warlord who utilized the holy canons to mobilize the Arabs against Christianity. That is why not even a century passed that they began to conquest.
Your revision of the obvious is noted.

Christendoms storied history of depraved atrocitys against humanity the WORLD over for the last 2000 years which dwarf Islam by comparison?

Just another exaggeration. There's a mountain of myth that adulterates history, taking the vestiges of Christian extremism and conflating it to the entirety of what Christendom was doing.

Without the Church doing what they had done, you'd be a Muslim praying to Allah right now. That's the entire point of a crusade- to maintain orthodoxy.
Sorry that fact is lost on you, who enjoys the fruit of it.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Christianity was already the state religion of Rome and Greece. Mohammad was a warlord who utilized the holy canons to mobilize the Arabs against Christianity. That is why not even a century passed that they began to conquest.

None of this is relavent to your original claim which was:

Muslims have had it out for Christianity from their very beginning.

History simply doesnt support this claim. Seeing as you think it does then provide proof.

taking the vestiges of Christian extremism and conflating it to the entirety of what Christendom was doing.

Which is exactly what you're doing with Islam...........

That's the entire point of a crusade- to maintain orthodoxy.

You dont seem too aware as to who started the crusades. I'll give you a clue, it wasn't the Khalif....

 

[Crucible]

Christianity was already the state religion of Rome and Greece. Mohammad was a warlord who utilized the holy canons to mobilize the Arabs against Christianity. That is why not even a century passed that they began to conquest.

None of this is relavent to your original claim which was:

Muslims have had it out for Christianity from their very beginning.

:doh:

 

[everready]

Do you think that if the world knew how Islam came into being it would change anything? A Cardinal Bea told the story like this:

'A wealthy Arabian lady who was a faithful follower of the pope played a tremendous part in this drama. She was a widow named Khadijah. She gave her wealth to the church and retired to a convent, but was given an assignment. She was to find a brilliant young man who could be used by the Vatican to create a new religion and become the messiah for the children of Ishmael. Khadijah had a cousin named Waraquah,, who was also a very faithful Roman Catholic and the Vatican placed him in a critical role as Muhammad's advisor. He had tremendous influence on Muhammad.

'Teachers were sent to young Muhammad and he had intensive training. Muhammad studied the works of St. Augustine which prepared him for his "great calling." The Vatican had Catholic Arabs across North Africa spread the story of a great one who was about to rise up among the people and be the chosen one of their God.

'While Muhammad was being prepared, he was told that his enemies were the Jews and that the only true Christians were Roman Catholic. He was taught that others calling themselves Christians were actually wicked impostors and should be destroyed. Many Muslims believe this.

'Muhammad began receiving "divine revelations" and his wife's Catholic cousin Waraquah helped interpret them. From this came the Koran. In the fifth year of Muhammad's mission, persecution came against his followers because they refused to worship the idols in the Kaaba.

'Muhammad instructed some of them to flee to Abysinnia where Negus, the Roman Catholic king accepted them because Muhammad's views on the virgin Mary were so close to Roman Catholic doctrine. These Muslims received protection from Catholic kings because of Muhammad's revelations.

'Muhammad later conquered Mecca and the Kaaba was cleared of idols. History proves that before Islam came into existence, the Sabeans in Arabia worshiped the moon-god who was married to the sun-god. They gave birth to three goddesses who were worshipped throughout the Arab world as "Daughters of Allah" An idol excavated at Hazor in Palestine in 1950's shows Allah sitting on a throne with the crescent moon on his chest.

'Muhammad claimed he had a vision from Allah and was told, "You are the messenger of Allah." This began his career as a prophet and he received many messages. By the time Muhammad died, the religion of Islam was exploding. The nomadic Arab tribes were joining forces in the name of Allah and his prophet, Muhammad.

'Some of Muhammad's writings were placed in the Koran, others were never published. They are now in the hands of high ranking holy men (Ayatollahs) in the Islamic faith.'

"When Cardinal Bea shared with us in the Vatican, he said, these writings are guarded because they contain information that links the Vatican to the creation of Islam. Both sides have so much information on each other, that if exposed, it could create such a scandal that it would be a disaster for both religions.

"In their "holy" book, the Koran, Christ is regarded as only a prophet. If the pope was His representative on earth, then he also must be a prophet of God. This caused the followers of Muhammad to fear and respect the pope as another "holy man."

"The pope moved quickly and issued bulls granting the Arab generals permission to invade and conquer the nations of North Africa. The Vatican helped to finance the building of these massive Islamic armies in exchange for three favors:

1. Eliminate the Jews and Christians (true believers, which they called infidels).

2. Protect the Augustinian Monks and Roman Catholics.

3. Conquer Jerusalem for "His Holiness" in the Vatican.

http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/04apr/catholicislam.html

everready

 

[SonOfCaleb]

:doh:

Im not interested in your opinion on the matter i want verifable sources. You claim Mohammed had designs against Christianity when he started the Islamic faith so provide proof, academic, peer reviewed sources or otherwise. I don't care which i just want to see your proof as as ive already told you the historical record of early Islam doesnt support your opinion.

 

[Crucible]

Im not interested in your opinion on the matter i want verifable sources. You claim Mohammed had designs against Christianity when he started the Islamic faith so provide proof, academic, peer reviewed sources or otherwise. I don't care which i just want to see your proof as as ive already told you the historical record of early Islam doesnt support your opinion.

I don't care what you want, stop pretending that the nation that has been murdering Christians for the past 1400 years are some innocent, misunderstood people :chuckle:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I don't care what you want, stop pretending that the nation that has been murdering Christians for the past 1400 years are some innocent, misunderstood people :chuckle:

Crucible...

Ammunition for you to fire at [MENTION=17065]SonOfCaleb[/MENTION] directly from the Quran.

Sura 4.171 Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
Sura 6.101 Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things.
Sura 9.30 And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
Sura 10.68 They say: Allah has taken a son (to Himself)! Glory be to Him: He is the Self-sufficient: His is what is in the heavens and what is in the earth; you have no authority for this; do you say against Allah what you do not know?
Sura 17.111 And say: (All) praise is due to Allah, Who has not taken a son and Who has not a partner in the kingdom, and Who has not a helper to save Him from disgrace; and proclaim His greatness magnifying (Him).
Sura 18.4 And warn those who say: Allah has taken a son.
Sura 19.35 It beseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a son, glory to be Him; when He has decreed a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is.
Sura 19.88 And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son. (91) That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God. (92) And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son.
Sura 21.26 And they say: The Beneficent God has taken to Himself a son. Glory be to Him. Nay! they are honored servants
Sura 23.91 Never did Allah take to Himself a son, and never was there with him any (other) god-- in that case would each god have certainly taken away what he created, and some of them would certainly have overpowered others; glory be to Allah above what they describe!
Sura 25.2 He, Whose is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, and Who did not take to Himself a son, and Who has no associate in the kingdom, and Who created everything, then ordained for it a measure.

And a real peach...

Sura 4.157 And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa [Jesus] son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure
158 Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
159 And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Jesus) shall be a witness against them.

Pair these with 1 John 2:22

Who is the liar, except the one denying that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one denying the Father and the Son.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

I don't care what you want, stop pretending that the nation that has been murdering Christians for the past 1400 years are some innocent, misunderstood people :chuckle:

As i expected, you have no proof.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

As i expected, you have no proof.

I don't care what you want, stop pretending that the nation that has been murdering Christians for the past 1400 years are some innocent, misunderstood people :chuckle:

directly from the Quran.

Sura 4.171 Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
Sura 6.101 Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things.
Sura 9.30 And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
Sura 10.68 They say: Allah has taken a son (to Himself)! Glory be to Him: He is the Self-sufficient: His is what is in the heavens and what is in the earth; you have no authority for this; do you say against Allah what you do not know?
Sura 17.111 And say: (All) praise is due to Allah, Who has not taken a son and Who has not a partner in the kingdom, and Who has not a helper to save Him from disgrace; and proclaim His greatness magnifying (Him).
Sura 18.4 And warn those who say: Allah has taken a son.
Sura 19.35 It beseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a son, glory to be Him; when He has decreed a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is.
Sura 19.88 And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son. (91) That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God. (92) And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son.
Sura 21.26 And they say: The Beneficent God has taken to Himself a son. Glory be to Him. Nay! they are honored servants
Sura 23.91 Never did Allah take to Himself a son, and never was there with him any (other) god-- in that case would each god have certainly taken away what he created, and some of them would certainly have overpowered others; glory be to Allah above what they describe!
Sura 25.2 He, Whose is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, and Who did not take to Himself a son, and Who has no associate in the kingdom, and Who created everything, then ordained for it a measure.

And a real peach...

Sura 4.157 And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa [Jesus] son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure
158 Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
159 And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Jesus) shall be a witness against them.

Pair these with 1 John 2:22

Who is the liar, except the one denying that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one denying the Father and the Son.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

As i expected, you have no proof.

directly from the Quran.

Sura 4.171 Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
Sura 6.101 Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things.
Sura 9.30 And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
Sura 10.68 They say: Allah has taken a son (to Himself)! Glory be to Him: He is the Self-sufficient: His is what is in the heavens and what is in the earth; you have no authority for this; do you say against Allah what you do not know?
Sura 17.111 And say: (All) praise is due to Allah, Who has not taken a son and Who has not a partner in the kingdom, and Who has not a helper to save Him from disgrace; and proclaim His greatness magnifying (Him).
Sura 18.4 And warn those who say: Allah has taken a son.
Sura 19.35 It beseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a son, glory to be Him; when He has decreed a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is.
Sura 19.88 And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son. (91) That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God. (92) And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son.
Sura 21.26 And they say: The Beneficent God has taken to Himself a son. Glory be to Him. Nay! they are honored servants
Sura 23.91 Never did Allah take to Himself a son, and never was there with him any (other) god-- in that case would each god have certainly taken away what he created, and some of them would certainly have overpowered others; glory be to Allah above what they describe!
Sura 25.2 He, Whose is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, and Who did not take to Himself a son, and Who has no associate in the kingdom, and Who created everything, then ordained for it a measure.

And a real peach...

Sura 4.157 And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa [Jesus] son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure
158 Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
159 And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Jesus) shall be a witness against them.

Pair these with 1 John 2:22

Who is the liar, except the one denying that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one denying the Father and the Son.

How much more do you need? This is written words from the mouth of Muhammad to his people and transcribed by his elite. It is read by Muslims as the word of Allah through Mohammed.

 

[Crucible]

As i expected, you have no proof.

Proving that the sky is blue is not something I waste my time with. Islam has been adversarial to Christianity from the start, and it's because Islam is nothing but a war horse, conceived by a warlord.

 

[chair]

Proving that the sky is blue is not something I waste my time with. Islam has been adversarial to Christianity from the start, and it's because Islam is nothing but a war horse, conceived by a warlord.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
Matthew 10:34

 

[SabathMoon]

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
Matthew 10:34

Jewish tools accuse us of being Muslims. We may have started the bastard religion, but you are the first to commit genocide against it. Congratulations. Jews have proven they have not come to bring peace to the world.

Think of Matthew 10:34 as a warning.

 

[chair]

Jewish tools accuse us of being Muslims. We may have started the bastard religion, but you are the first to commit genocide against it. Congratulations. Jews have proven they have not come to bring peace to the world.

Think of Matthew 10:34 as a warning.

I have absolutely no idea what you are going on about. What is the Bastard Religion? Genocide? Do you know what the word means?

 

[SabathMoon]

I have absolutely no idea what you are going on about. What is the Bastard Religion? Genocide? Do you know what the word means?

Evidently you do. Koranism is a Jewish-Christian Unitarian bastard. It has its own lame set of laws.

 

[SabathMoon]

Chair, let me just add. I am not pretending to be pure like you are.

 

[chrysostom]

the history of Islam

Muslim Conquests

Byzantine–Ottoman Wars

636 Battle of Yarmouk

637 Siege of Jerusalem

641 Siege of Alexandria

674 First Arab Siege of Constantinople

711 Umayyad conquest of Hispania

717 Second Arab Siege of Constantinople

732 Battle of Tours

1099 Siege of Jerusalem

1187 Battle of Hattin

1291 Siege of Acre

1422 Siege of Constantinople

1453 Fall of Constantinople

1492 Battle of Granada

1529 Siege of Vienna

1565 Siege of Malta

1571 Battle of Lepanto

1683 Battle of Vienna

2001 September 11 attacks

2015 November Paris attacks



back to
the apocalypse

you are what you do
-
history will be your judge

 

[chrysostom]

And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth