The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

elected4ever

New member
c-moore, I have noticed that we all leave out scripture because of our like of understanding. When the scripture conflicts with our learned denominational teaching we try to find a way to explain away the conflict. I believe we all make errors but a born again believer is not a sinner any more. We will all be error prone untill this vile body is changed to that glorious body that we shall receive at the second coming of Christ Jesus.
 

c.moore

New member
QUOTE]Originally posted by carri
C.Moore--

Aha! And here in lies a great deal of the problemYou believe that people are saved just by believing in Christ--as soon as you believe or have faith, you can call yourself a Christian and be saved.

Quote c.moore
The bible says: Ro:10:3: For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Ro:10:4: For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Ro:10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro:10:10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Ro:10:11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Ro:10:12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Ro:10:13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Quote carri
But the truth is, this isn't the whole truth, according to God's Word. I really don't want to go into this again, but the Bible does teach that obedience is also necessary for salvation.

Quote c.moore
If we really have the first love in jesus we would what to be obedience, but not be obedience to earn salvation, because salvation is a gift, to be recieved.
Ro:5:18: Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Quote Carri


Heb5:9 "and once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him". Of course people think they are saved by coming to your disco and hearing God's Word, if they believe (which is what you teach) that all that is necessary for salvation is to have faith, but that they don't have to do or put out any effort on their part.

I wonder if they would come back if you told them that in order to continue coming as Christians they would have to give up their sinful ways? If people get "saved" and then comes back the next week wearing very little clothing or they come in smelling of booze, do you really think they've turned turned their lives over to Christ? I wonder how many are deceived into believing they are saved, just because they now believe?

Quote c.moore

When people get saved we have a believing course for those who want to follow Jesus, and we teach them how to stay saved ,and explain the whole salvation message to them including water baptism , and belonging to A church.
We also tell them that some people make an instant change, and some takes maybe 3, mouth, or 1 year, and more, because the mind has to be renewed.
This all is a growing process. Most people that are decieved in believing they are saved with out falling in love with Jesus is only fooling themselves, and they also lack knowledge of what it means to be saved.
That why I train, the people that help in the disco on how to disciple a new born person, and that we need to stay in contact with them so they don`t fall back completly in their old life.
We teach them that if they sin again , they don`t have to go into condemnation.

I think the problem you have is that you need to recieve the love , to see the lost get saved, and the will to go witnessing.
I have the name evangelist, because I have a hunger to see the lost get saved regardless who they are.
Look at the prison ministry, just because we deal with criminal in Jail, doesn`t make us bad, and some people think bad of us because we talk to the prisoners , and they think they will always be jail birds and never change.
What a shame for the christians that think this.
We need to keep trying to preach the gospel to the lost no matter what happens, because one day they will be thankful God used us to tell them the truth, and find the first love in Jesus.

Praise God
 

Kevin

New member
Dan37,

Where does it say that it is water baptism in Acts 2:38?

Acts 2:38 doesn't specifically say that it is "water baptism". All it says is that they were baptized "in the name of Jesus Christ". So, again, all we need to do is find a place in the Bible that shows the method by which people are baptized "in the name of the Lord".

Acts 10:47-48 clearly shows how being baptized "in the name of the Lord" is done. These verses show that these people, who were baptized "in the name of the Lord", were done so with water (can anybody forbid water that these should not be baptized... verse 47).

So, my point is that if the people spoken of in Acts 10:47-48 were baptized "in the name of the Lord" with water, why wouldn't the people in Acts 2:38, who were baptized "in the name of the Lord" use water as well? Both parties were baptized "in the name of the Lord", therefore the same means would be used in both cases.

Incedentally, why would Peter, who was the apostle spoken of in both Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47-48, baptize people in the same baptism using two different methods? He wouldn't.
 

elected4ever

New member
always using fact not in evidence, keven. You are assuming things that are not there because if you do then the scripture will agree with you. They are only assumptions on your part. It took me forever to stop assuming things because I was tought them from my youth in my denomination. They are denominational teachings and not scripture.
 

JustAChristian

New member
Whow! What Revelation!!!!!

Whow! What Revelation!!!!!

Originally posted by agape
Acts 10:47,48 - "[Then Peter said,] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?"

The excitement of the occasion so overwhelmed Peter that He ordered John's water baptism, but he never carried it out for God changed Peter's mind. Peter said, as recorded in Acts 11:16, "Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost." Water baptism was not needed nor administered.

(48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Now, we've got Peter administering John's baptism and the Holy Spirit baptism. What will be next in your imagination. I guess Peter administered John's baptism on Pentecost. Did Jesus administer John's baptism? Did he send out the apostles to administer Holy Spirit baptism? (Matthew 28:18-20). When Paul baptized those at Ephesus (Acts 19:1-2), did he baptize them in the Holy Spirit? The only reason that Peter related about the Holy Spirit in Acts 11:16, is because he recognized the intervention of the Lord in the matter and was comfortable in what he was preaching and doing in the house of Cornelius. Until this moment, he was not sure he was supposed to be there. Get real, agape, quit imagining and "prove all things".

JustAChristian
 

Kevin

New member
Dan37,

always using fact not in evidence, keven.

Eh? :confused:

You are assuming things that are not there because if you do then the scripture will agree with you.

Exactly what am I assuming?

I have presented biblical fact, not biblical assumptions. Do you deny that in both cases (Acts 10:47 and Acts 2:38) that people were baptized in the name of the Lord? Do you?

Do you deny that Peter said "Can anyone forbid WATER that these should not be baptized"? Do you agree that Peter specifically identified water in connection to being baptized? Do you think Peter was offering them a drink of water or something? :confused: What do you think "water" is referring to?

I have biblical evidence on my side to show that baptism in the name of the Lord uses water. It is you who assumes otherwise.
 

carri

New member
C.Moore--

Why did you drag my question from one thread to another? Unless someone knows where it came from, they cannot even follow the discussion!!! If Kevin hadn't pointed it out, I wouldn't even know it was here.

My original post concerning your comment was this (in part)
Do Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc.... all have God's approval because they bring in sinners who repent of their ungodly ways and claim to become Christians? After all, by your logic, if the people are coming to Christ and turning away from their lives of sin, then it must be approved by God. Every one of these churches claims to do just that.
These churches can be justified just the same way you want to justify your disco: as long as someone's saved in the end then it (the disco) is approved by God. The end justifies the means according to you.

You said
That why I train, the people that help in the disco on how to disciple a new born person, and that we need to stay in contact with them so they don`t fall back completly in their old life.
We teach them that if they sin again , they don`t have to go into condemnation.
What do you mean "completely"? Do you bother to teach them that if they do return to their old life that they are worse off than before knowing Christ? That they are like dogs returning to their own vomit? That's what God's Word says--do you say it also?

Why don't you keep our discussion on the original thread? Taking what I've said out of context is hardly fair play, especially when I don't even know you've done it.

Carri

ps And again, you are only quoting the scriptures that support your view and totally ignoring all the rest!
 

Apollos

New member
Attitudes and Longitudes...

Attitudes and Longitudes...

dan37 -

You said my attitude "stenks" (stinks?).

It is regrettable that you feel this way.

What say we sit down over a glass of buttermilk and talk about it!
:p

(Kevin - do you think my attitudes stenks ??)
 

c.moore

New member
Originally posted by c.moore
quote:c.moore
we are condenmned automatic because of adam .

Quote JustAChristian

You do err not know the scriptures nor the power of God. We are not condemned for Adam's sin but for our own sins

Quote by c.moore
That why I ask what does this scripture mean to you, and I still didn`t get an anwer from this bible verse
I `ll say it again.
Ro:5:18: Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation

Ro:5:19: For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,

The adam is this one man who we all were made sinners, not like you say, our own sin, this is false interpretation of the bible.

Ro:5:12: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Ro:5:14: Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

So Now, Who is in err, the bible or you?????

quote: c.moore
We are automatically righteous alone through Jesus.
Ro:5:18: Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life



quote:c.moore

Jesus was obedient for us , this is the one man.


Ro:5:19: For as by one man's (disobedience )many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

I hope you can understand what the bible says, and I try to point out the parts you don`t read in huge, and red letters, so you cdan keep the bible in the right context.

Let God bless you:)
:)
 

Kevin

New member
Hello friend!

Hello friend!

Apollos,

(Kevin - do you think my attitudes stenks ??)

I can see how that buttermilk comment could rile somebody up. Some people can take sarcasm, but others don't care for it. Sarcasm is a hard thing to use, but it certainly has it's function... even God Himself used it. I try to use it in a way that gets the message accross with as little offense as possible, but sometimes offense is inevitable.

I also like to mix sarcasm and humor, it's just part of my personality. :D

By the way, if you want to know what to do with all that buttermilk, may I suggest buttermilk pancakes? ;)
 

agape

New member
Acts 10:41-48
Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

(42) And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

(43) To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

(44) While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on [epipipto epi] all them which heard the word.

(45) And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(46)For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

(47) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

(48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

At the end of this account of the first Gentiles being saved is the mention of water baptism. The Gentiles did not ask for it. Peter himself suggested it. We know from the doctrinal truth that the greater baptism in the spirit had replaced the temporary and preparatory baptism with water. Did Peter actually carry out this water baptism? No, he did not. He quickly came to his senses and remembered the word of the Lord. This information is not given in the record of Acts 10, but in Acts 11, the record of Peter related this incident to those he reported to in Jerusalem.

Peter was about to have the Gentiles water baptized, but "then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost." (Acts 11:16). He realized what was good enough for him and the others with him on the day of Pentecost, had to be good enough for the Gentiles. They had unquestionably received, and manifested by speaking in tongues, the same baptism in holy spirit as he did. Therefore, as he related in Acts 11, "Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?" Peter never did baptize them with water, because he realized quickly after he said it that water baptism was totally unnecessary.

Also, it is interesting to note that in the KJV the words; "in the name of the Lord" are improperly rendered.

To be "baptized in the name of the Lord" in verse 48 is not John's water baptism, but spirit baptism.

This is questionable, because the Gentiles had already received and evidenced their baptism by speaking in tongues in verse 46. Why would Peter command these Gentiles to be baptized in the name of the Lord when they had already been baptized in the spirit and had manifested the spirit by speaking in tongues?

The translation of this section of verse 48 from the Greek should read:

"And he commanded them in the name of Jesus Christ, to be baptized."

Rather than the baptism being in the name of the Lord, the command is given in the name of Jesus Christ. Peter was commanding them by the authority that was his in the name of Jesus Christ (or so he thought). This is similar to what is illustrated in II Thessalonians.

II Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

As Paul was commanding the Thessalonians by the authority that was his in the name of Jesus Christ to withdraw themselves from every brother that walked disorderly, so Peter was commanding the Gentiles by that same authority to be baptized . . . in water.

Acts 10:47,48a (corrected translation)
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

(48a) And he commanded them in the name of Jesus Christ, to be baptized.

Acts 11:16
Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

It wasn't until after Peter commanded them in the name of Jesus Christ to be baptized, that he remembered the word of the Lord, how that Jesus said, "John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost." He had issued this erroneous and unnecessary command in the emotional moments which followed his witnessing the Gentiles "magnify God" by speaking in tongues. It is certainly understandable that a once devout, Mosaic Law-abiding Israelite, might lose his composure at what he saw God do among these once despised Gentiles. When he gathered his thoughts, he realized there was nothing more to be done. The Gentiles had received the baptism in the holy spirit and manifested it by speaking in tongues, just as he had on the day of Pentecost. Peter could do nothing more but what the elders at Jerusalem did when he later recited this event to them in Jerusalem.
 

elected4ever

New member
In the two passages, Acts2:38 and 10:44-47. Was it the baptism of John or the Baptism rhat Jesus baptism that Jesus baptizes with? Remember Matt.3: 11. John the Baotist said,"I baptise you with water but he that comes after me shall baptize with the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit Baptism is Jesus Baptism. What was the question that was ask when the souls were found in Acts 19:1-7.

1 Have you received the Holy Ghost sense you believed?
2 What baptism were you baptized with?
3 What were there answers?

This is the passage that shows that water baptism was not enough and that Holy Ghost baptism is Jesus's baptism. That is the baptism that all believers receive and is the baptism refered to in Matt 28:19; Mark 16:16;Acts 2:38; and act 10:44-47
 

JustAChristian

New member
That The World Might Know.

There are but two passages of Scripture that tell us how one gets into Christ. In Rom. 6:3 Paul wrote, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" Again he wrote, "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal. 3:27). How does one get into Christ? Paul's answer -- one is "baptized into Christ." There is no other way into Christ! We get into Christ in precisely the same way that we get into the one body (1 Cor. 12:13), therefore, being in Christ is the same thing as being in his body, the church.

Symbolism needs to be understood in order to give proper biblical interpretation. Water is symbolized as a grave in Romans 6. We are buried in the grave of water. A grave consist of a hole, dirt and covering up. When we understand this we can understand the implications of the burial. Not only did Paul say that we are baptized into Jesus Christ (Rom. 6:3), but he goes on to say that we are "baptized into his death." It was in Christ's death that he shed his blood, and his blood is that which remits sin. However, we must come into contact with his blood before our sins can be remitted. Where do we contact the blood of Christ? Paul tells us that it is in baptism. If he shed his blood in his death (and he did), and we are baptized into his death (and we are), then it is in baptism that we come into contact with the blood of Christ, which is able to remit sin. If not, why not?

In the latter part of Gal. 3:27, Paul states that in baptism we "put on Christ." Again we come to symbolism. Let me use a very simple illustration which all should be able to understand. Until a person puts on his coat, he is out of the coat. Once he has put the coat on, he is in the coat. Just so it is in our relation to Christ. We are out of Christ until we put Christ on, and Paul plainly states that we put Christ on in baptism. Therefore, until one is baptized "into Christ" he is out of Christ, because he has not put Christ on! I can hardly see how anyone can possibly misunderstand such plain, simple language, and yet there are thousands who seemingly cannot understand this, because they shout long and loud that baptism is not essential to salvation.

The apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit and those who believed Peter's preaching were baptized in water in the name of Christ on the same day. Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Spirit and the same day, likely within the same hour, was baptized in water in the name of Christ.
Jesus told Nicodemus that without being "born of water and of the Spirit" one can not enter this spiritual family, the church (John 3:1-8). "Born of water and of the Spirit" refers to the one new birth, accomplished when one is baptized in water according to (or, as directed by) the Holy Spirit (John 3:3-5).

Holy Spirit baptism was never given as a command. How could it be? It was administered by deity, not men. And it was administered at a time and under circumstances chosen by deity, not by men. Water baptism, on the other hand, was given by command (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47,48; Acts 22:16). This is a baptism administered by men, and when performed scripturally is approved of God. And it is a baptism men submit to of their own free will. At a time of their choosing, in obedience to the Lord's command.

The one baptism of Eph. 4 is Christian era baptism. It is the baptism that is commanded. And it was designed to remain in effect until the end of the earth (Matthew 28:18-20). It is not the baptism of John. It is not the baptism of fire. And it is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Christian era baptism consists of immersion in water (Acts 8:38). Its prerequisites are faith, repentance, and confession (Mark 16:15,16; Acts 2:38; Acts 8:37). It, therefore, is not for infants. It is administered in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19,20). And, it is for the remission of sins and for union with Christ (Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Galatians 3 :26-27; Romans 6:3-5).

Summarizing, let me say that baptism produces forgiveness of sins. Why?, because it is at this point of obedience that one comes in contact with the death of Christ. It is only in the death of Christ that we may find salvation. And it is only in baptism that we may contact the death of Christ (Rom. 6:1-6). Paul affirms that we are baptized into his death, that is the death of Christ, and that is very important. Some contend that baptism only symbolizes a dying to sin on our part, in turning from our sins; that the only death connected with baptism is the spiritual dying to sin that occurs within us. But this simply is not true. It is true that a dying to sin occurs within us in conversion. But it is not true that this dying to sin is all that baptism represents. Paul's teaching is that we are baptized into the death of Jesus. So remember, now, we are baptized into the one body (1 Cor. 12:13); Christ is the savior of the body (Eph. 5:23); we are baptized into Christ (Rom. 6:3; Gal. 3:27); into his death (Rom. 6:3) where his blood was shed; and in baptism we put on Christ (Gal. 3:27). In view of such plain passages, how can anyone honestly feel that water baptism is unimportant and has no validity? How can they say that we can be cleansed and saved any other way?

JustAChristian
 

JustAChristian

New member
What Does It Mean To Be A New Creation?

What Does It Mean To Be A New Creation?

Originally posted by dan37
Where does it say that it is water baptism in Acts 2:38?

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Read Acts 10: 44-48 and you will see that water baptism came after the Holy Spitit Baptism.

Acts 10:44  ¶While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45  And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46  For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47  Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48  And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Lets Approach It In A Logical Manner.....

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (2 Cor 5:17).

We find as we study the Bible that one must be a new creature to be saved. It is important for us to know how we become new creatures, and to make application to our lives this biblical principle. One does not have the new characteristics of Christ without being in Christ. We must be Christ-like.

In order to be a new creature, there are some things that one must do. No we are not going to teach anything about "earning salvation." Salvation can not be earned. It is a free gift from God by his grace. We need only to obtain that grace through the appointed process of the Bible. The Bible tells us that we must be born again. "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God: ( Jn 3:3). Jesus further defines being born again by saying, "...Verily , verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (Jn 3:5). Christ placed great emphasis on the process of being born again. It's important that we do the same.

In order to be a new creature, one must walk in newness of life ( Rom. 6:4). Christ has cleansed us of our sins, and we must change our lives to reflect that cleansing. Paul taught the Church, "That you would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory: (1 Thess. 2:12).

Likewise, one must be free of sin and serving God (Rom 6:22). Once one has put on Christ, his past sins are forgiven (Gal 3:27; Eph. 4:32).

Well then, how does one become a new creature? It is by the process of the new birth ( Jn 3:3-5). The new birth is a process involving water and the Holy Spirit. Through the act of water baptism, one is born again. Peter told those on Pentecost in Acts chapter two, "Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:38). The Holy Spirit was not possessed by those Peter preached to before their baptism, therefore they were not new creatures before baptism. The Holy Ghost was received by them after their baptism, so by this process one becomes a new creature. God does not give the Holy Spirit to anyone who is not a new creature (1Cor 3:16). Since one must walk in newness of life to be a new creature, one is raised from baptism to walk in newness of life (Rom 6:4). Likewise, since one must be free from sin and serving God faithfully, then one must obey from the heart the form of doctrine(Romans 6:22),which is being baptized into Christs' death and being united with him by a dying to sin and being resurrected to newness of life through baptism.-( Romans 6:3-5). There is no other way to be united with Jesus Christ and to be made an heir to the blessings of heaven except through faithful obedience including being baptized ( Heb 5:8-9; Gal 3:27).

Now ask yourself, can one be a child of God, a new creature without the new birth? The answer must be no, one must be born again. Can one be a child of God, a new creature without have new life? The answer must be no. One must be raised to walk in newness of life. Well, then, can one be a child of God, a new creature without being in Christ and being free from sin and serving God? Absolutely not! Being in Christ and free from sin, and serving from the heart the Living God is necessary to be a new creation. The answer to all these questions, as you see is NO. Therefore we must conclude that since one can only be a new creature if these things are done, then baptism in water for the remission of sins is essential to one being a new creature.


JustAChristian
 

elected4ever

New member
I am logical Just. Water baptism does not get one into the death of Christ Jesus and it does not give life in Christ Jesus. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. The baptism of Jesus is Holy Spirit Baptism.
Are you telling me you have not the baptism that Jesus gives? He who has not the Spirit is none of His.
 

JustAChristian

New member
Find One Verse.

Find One Verse.

Originally posted by dan37
I am logical Just. Water baptism does not get one into the death of Christ Jesus and it does not give life in Christ Jesus. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. The baptism of Jesus is Holy Spirit Baptism.
Are you telling me you have not the baptism that Jesus gives? He who has not the Spirit is none of His.

Find one verse that tells us that the Holy Spirit will give us life (cause us to be a new creature).

JustAChristian
 

elected4ever

New member
2 Corinthians 3:6  ¶Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7  But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8  How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9  For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10  For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11  For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12  ¶Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13  And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14  But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15  But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16  Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17  Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18  But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord
 

JustAChristian

New member
The Spirit Giveth Life.

The Spirit Giveth Life.

Originally posted by dan37
2 Corinthians 3:6  ¶Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7  But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8  How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9  For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10  For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11  For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12  ¶Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13  And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14  But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15  But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16  Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17  Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18  But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord

What does it mean ....

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Is Paul speaking of the Holy Spirit? No, he is speaking of the covenant. We see how the Old Covenant only convicted one of sin, but never gave the means of eternal life. Paul contrasts this with the New Covenant of Christ which does produce the means to eternal life (John 6:63; Romans 1:16). The Perfect Law of Liberty has strong spiritual application, and is the instrument unto life. The Holy Spirit will convict of sin (John 16:8), but can not produce eternal life.

For additional information of the covenant information of 2 Cor. 3, I invite you to this link http://www.bible.ca/eo/2co/2co_03.htm

JustAChristian
 
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