ECT The Grace of God. Is it merited or unmerited?

Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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nikolai_42 said:
I don't think the question is one of progress - Sanctification is a process. Otherwise it must be instantaneous...

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 1:6

If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
For now thou numberest my steps: dost thou not watch over my sin?
My transgression is sealed up in a bag, and thou sewest up mine iniquity.
Job 14:14-17

But progress and the basis of that progress are not independent of one another. Thus, the importance of the foundation. My righteousness or God's? And while I am changed (transformed, as Paul puts it in Romans 12:2), that doesn't mean I've arrived...
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So then your righteousness or His really makes no difference. Sounds to me like it's .10 holding up a dollar. . .;)

BTW: What is progress designed to perform except to make a son out of you?
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

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Cross Reference said:
So then your righteousness or His really makes no difference. Sounds to me like it's .10 holding up a dollar. . .;)

BTW: What is progress designed to perform except to make a son out of you?
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Romans 12:2 speaks about NOT being conformed to the world. Romans 8:29 about being conformed to the image of His Son...and being predestined to that...foreknown. God knew before He uttered...
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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nikolai_42 said:
But Paul says that not only did he NOT merit the grace, but he said it came first and then did the work. Thus his own statement disavows it having anything to do with him. So if God foreknew Paul, He foreknew Him according to His own purpose - not according to Paul's own merit.
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Paul obeyed before he was saved.

Paul's conversion proves you wrong.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Paul was not saved the minute he believed.

He had to do what Jesus said, then he fasted and prayed, and then repented.
 
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nikolai_42 said:
No. The foundation was God's grace. I realize saying God foreknew and predestined from the beginning all things is not true - but it appears that way when we look at things. So God wasn't destroying His own foundation but reckoning with Paul as he was - making him a new creation in Christ. Paul was MADE righteous. He was not (and admitted as much) already righteous.
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Paul's conversion proves your beliefs to be false.

Acts 9:5 "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied.

6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."…
 
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God's Truth

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Paul was not saved the moment he believed in Jesus.

Jesus told Paul he will tell him what he must do.

Did you hear that? What Paul must DO.
 
Eagles Wings

Eagles Wings

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Cross Reference said:
Saints? Everybody here says they're still sinners, saved by grace. I guess for them, there hasn't been any progress.
<I can believe that>
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"A wrong temper of mind about another soul will end in the spirit of the devil, no matter how saintly you are. One carnal judgment, and the end of it is hell in you." (This was written by Oswald Chambers)

Although beloved, he is subtlety teaching legalism and his writings continually go from grace to law. I know you are a fan of his, and I was once, too.
 
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nikolai_42 said:
But if we are righteous already, why is progression needed? We already have all we need. It's done.
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What's done if this what is God is after for having redeemed us?:

". . . this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
John 17:3 (KJV)

Unto what? Union in the Godhead. Would you not have that happen to you?
 
Cross Reference

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Eagles Wings said:
"A wrong temper of mind about another soul will end in the spirit of the devil, no matter how saintly you are. One carnal judgment, and the end of it is hell in you." (This was written by Oswald Chambers)

Although beloved, he is subtlety teaching legalism and his writings continually go from grace to law. I know you are a fan of his, and I was once, too.
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I'll stand with Chambers. Thank you.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Eagles Wings said:
"A wrong temper of mind about another soul will end in the spirit of the devil, no matter how saintly you are. One carnal judgment, and the end of it is hell in you." (This was written by Oswald Chambers)

Although beloved, he is subtlety teaching legalism and his writings continually go from grace to law. I know you are a fan of his, and I was once, too.
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Me, too. :sigh:
 
JonahofAkron

JonahofAkron

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God's Truth said:
Grace means we do not have to do these things anymore:


The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.



We do not have to do those works anymore, just to go to the temple to worship God.


Grace is that we do not have to do those works, we only have to have faith that Jesus' blood cleans us.


Grace is not, "We no longer have to obey God."
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Looks like the apostles didn't get that message.

Sent from my SM-N910T using TheologyOnline mobile app
 
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Danoh said:
So sell your house and give alms.
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I do what Jesus tells everyone to do. Jesus doesn't tell everyone to be homeless. Only someone without any understanding would think that Jesus was advocating world wide homelessness and poverty.
 
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