The existence of Satan makes no sense.

[Nick M]

You are reading a parable. Satan is used in parables to mean (adversary / opposition.)
God established the nation of Israel. Israel was the anointed cherub. Fiery stones is men of judgement.

Job 1

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Israel was the anointed cherub? You are just making things up. This also answers the OP.

 

[PureX]

"Satan" is an illustrative character, used in story-telling. It is intended to embody our immoral inclinations so that we can better recognize them as being something apart from our own well-being.

 

[Caino]

I'm having a problem trying to believe in the existence of Satan for many reasons. It's like his existence logically contradicts the popular view of God being a just God.

Satan is believed to be a former high angel, who fell from heaven because he either hated Man, rebelled against God or both. Now, this world is a suffering world.. we die, there is pain, there is evil, the world is just damaged because sin entered it through Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve fell into the temptation of the Serpent, so the serpent is accepted to be Satan which means his fall pre dates the Garden of Eden.


So here is the problem, if this world became what it is because of Adam and Eve sinning, then why didn't heaven get the same results if the actual first sin was done in heaven - through Satan?

There is more to this question, but i'll just start off here because every religion forum i've been to can't answer this.

Good question! Obviously there is much more to the story written by the Hebrew priest. We can also see that Cain was afraid of people outside of his parents tribe.

* The evolved ancient earth had already fallen when Adam and Eve arrived.

* Sin is a choice not an inheritance.

* Satan was a celestial administrator who fell into sin and rebellion against what he determined was a fictional unseen Father. He knew the Son already.

 

[fcisd]

Because God had given man dominion over the earth so when we feel creation fell.

Satan has no dominion over heaven, so his fall has no effect.

So hard to answer?

Good answer, thank you for this. It makes it understandable to a degree however, there is still some holes in the whole concept of Satan and his fall.. First, since he sinned why is it that he isn't mortal while we are?

Next, since Satan, this high angel, manage to sin in heaven then how can we be sure that -- the other angels such as Michael, Raphael, etc or the saints such as the Virgin Mary, Joseph, or the people that have passed away-- are still up there? I mean, it is obviously possible to sin up there so after these thousands of years then it should be safe to doubt on anything being permanent/perfect.

 

[fcisd]

Good question! Obviously there is much more to the story written by the Hebrew priest. We can also see that Cain was afraid of people outside of his parents tribe.

I'm ok with this. I can assume that Adam and Eve were likely a number of people rather than just two.

* Sin is a choice not an inheritance.

I was told differently. Scripture makes it clear that Adam and Eve chose sin and it's that choice that the entire human race inherits mortal sin.

* Satan was a celestial administrator who fell into sin and rebellion against what he determined was a fictional unseen Father. He knew the Son already.

where did you get this info?

* The evolved ancient earth had already fallen when Adam and Eve arrived. .

I thought it fell after?

 

[fcisd]

Why not just go with what the Bible says rather than what the heathen claim?

The bible doesn't answer as to why the sin that satan brought in heaven didn't result in damage unlike when Adam and eve brought sin. There is even very little detail as to why he fell, when he fell... the info about satan isn't enough, he is just seen as some helper of God in the OT and then suddenly the biggest bad guy in existence in the NT.

 

[Nick M]

The bible doesn't answer as to why the sin that satan brought in heaven didn't result in damage unlike when Adam and eve brought sin.

Well, if you believe Paul's unique gospel and live forever, you can ask him how and why he imputes sin.

There is even very little detail as to why he fell, when he fell

He chose to rebel. Why does anybody choose hell and reject imputed righteousness? Why do they shake their fist at him? Ask them. I don't know. Well, some here explicitly stated they hate him because he is evil for saying to execute capital criminals.

the info about satan isn't enough, he is just seen as some helper of God in the OT and then suddenly the biggest bad guy in existence in the NT.

I don't agree. Ezekiel was already posted about him. Did you read it?

 

[Caino]

I'm ok with this. I can assume that Adam and Eve were likely a number of people rather than just two.


I was told differently. Scripture makes it clear that Adam and Eve chose sin and it's that choice that the entire human race inherits mortal sin.

where did you get this info?



I thought it fell after?

I get my information from common sense reading and the Urantia Book.

It is apparent that God the Father delegates powers and authority to his Sons who in tern delegate to their Sons and so on all the way down to the inhabited worlds.

The Persian doctrine of an original sin is human conjecture and speculation. True, our world has suffered a double default of leadership which has had tremendous consequences, but sin is possiblility in finite beings, in fact it's inevitable.

 

[CherubRam]

Job 1

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Israel was the anointed cherub? You are just making things up. This also answers the OP.

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, because they will be called sons of God.

Luke 20:36
For they cannot die anymore, because they are like [angels/messengers] and are sons of God, since they are sons of the resurrection.

Galatians 3:26
for you are all sons of God through faith in Messiah Yashua.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:19
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[glassjester]

So here is the problem, if this world became what it is because of Adam and Eve sinning, then why didn't heaven get the same results if the actual first sin was done in heaven - through Satan?

The Fall of Adam and Eve caused them to lose the sanctifying grace they were created with. They were, at that point, the entirety of humanity. Mankind was then in a state apart of grace. This is called original sin.

Humans that came into the world subsequently, were born into this already-existing state of original sin.


Angels, on the other hand, do not reproduce. All of the angels that exist, already existed when Satan fell from grace. No angels were born into a fallen state because no angels were born at all.

 

[CherubRam]

Job 1

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Israel was the anointed cherub? You are just making things up. This also answers the OP.

Numbers 24:8
“God brought them out of Egypt; they have the strength of a wild ox. They devour hostile nations and break their bones in pieces; with their arrows they pierce them.

Deuteronomy 9:1
Hear, Israel: You are now about to cross the Jordan to go in and dispossess nations greater and stronger than you, with large cities that have walls up to the sky.

Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

Revelation 2:28
I will also give that one the morning star.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I'm having a problem trying to believe in the existence of Satan for many reasons. It's like his existence logically contradicts the popular view of God being a just God.

What sort of "Catholic" are you?

AMR

 

[Nick M]

What sort of "Catholic" are you?

AMR

One that doesn't believe the Bible/doesn't know what it says.

All points remain. Satan is a fallen angel that choose to rebel.

 

[dialm]

In the long run there is no Satan.

 

[dialm]

What that means Nick M is that the thread starter is more correct than you are. Even if he is right for the wrong reason.

 

[Nick M]

In the long run there is no Satan.

Job 1

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth

 

[CherubRam]

Job 1

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
We are the sons of God. The "ADVERSARIES" are among us.
So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth
Satan is throughout the world, and comes from among us.

Do you know a "parable" when you see one?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Do you know a "parable" when you see one?

Yikes!

Apparently you do not if you think the account in Job is a parable.

AMR

 

[popsthebuilder]

I'm having a problem trying to believe in the existence of Satan for many reasons. It's like his existence logically contradicts the popular view of God being a just God.

Satan is believed to be a former high angel, who fell from heaven because he either hated Man, rebelled against God or both. Now, this world is a suffering world.. we die, there is pain, there is evil, the world is just damaged because sin entered it through Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve fell into the temptation of the Serpent, so the serpent is accepted to be Satan which means his fall pre dates the Garden of Eden.


So here is the problem, if this world became what it is because of Adam and Eve sinning, then why didn't heaven get the same results if the actual first sin was done in heaven - through Satan?

There is more to this question, but i'll just start off here because every religion forum i've been to can't answer this.

The fall of Azalel, Iblis, Satan, Baal, or whatever you refer to the negative side of man as didn't fall prior to the acquisition of damning knowledge by man through deceit and greed. Prior to this life itself would have been quite different, with no shame. All pain and suffering is the work of Satan through man, or the work of man through Satan.

 

[popsthebuilder]

It still wouldn't make sense. Then what's with all the scripture talk about Satan falling from heaven?

He fell from the grace of God because of pride. H though he was better than man and refused to serve him. He was offered mercy and refused out of pride and was set, symbolically below man, but with power over them to destroy them as the venomous snake or asp.