The death penalty in the USA

[nomik]

Originally posted by Gerald
They need to start executing blasphemers, idolaters and apostates before the death penalty will really have teeth...

You know at one time I was a idolator & blasphemer. . .
. . .But now I have accepted the Lord JESUS CHRIST as my personal Lord & Saviour.
I would have been lost had the death penalty been executing blasphemers, idolaters and apostates back when I was of the world.

 

[Turbo]

nomik,
You do realize that those particular laws were specifically for Israel, right? And that they really were God's idea, and they were entirely appropriate, right?

By the way, welcome to TOL! I'm glad to hear you're Christian. :thumb:

 

[nomik]

those particular laws

those particular laws

Originally posted by Turbo
nomik,
You do realize that those particular laws were specifically for Israel, right? And that they really were God's idea, and they were entirely appropriate, right?

By the way, welcome to TOL! I'm glad to hear you're Christian. :thumb:

Yea I do know that those laws "ARE" specifically for Isreal.
And that they came from GOD because all scripture is inspired by GOD.
It's just the way it was stated by Gerald. . .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Gerald
They need to start executing blasphemers, idolaters and apostates before the death penalty will really have teeth...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He was stating as to be for gentile law & if it was passed as a gentile law how many brothers & sisters in Christ wouldn't be here today or in the future?
I was just stating that I wouldn't be around had they started executing blasphemers, idolaters and apostates for the death penalty.
And thanks for the warm welcome:chuckle: to TOL & by your response I take your a Christian too:thumb:

 

[Turbo]

OK, that's cool, nomik. In case you didn't know, Gerald doesn't really want those laws enforced. He's not a Christian. He's just mocking God and the Bible.

 

[nomik]

Originally posted by Turbo
OK, that's cool, nomik. In case you didn't know, Gerald doesn't really want those laws enforced. He's not a Christian. He's just mocking God and the Bible.

:doh: I didn't know Gerald wasn't a christian :shocked:

 

[Gerald]

Originally posted by nomik
:doh: I didn't know Gerald wasn't a christian :shocked:

You are kidding, right?

 

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Turbo
You do realize that those particular laws were specifically for Israel, right?

Chapter and verse, please.

 

[nomik]

Originally posted by Gerald
You are kidding, right?

:yawn: HUH ! :freak: :doh: :bang: :think: :shake:

OH well I forgive you :chuckle: not everyone :nono: that hear's the truth recognizes it
I didn't at first :shake:

Hey I got an Idea :idea: "WHY DON'T YOU READ :read: THE WORD OF GOD" (which is the BIBLE)<--:readthis: "THEN FAST & PRAY ABOUT IT" ( you know pray about GOD opening your eye's & heart to the truth). Unless your scared Like I was at first. . .
...if you are scared you can choose to stay in the dark.:grave:
You wanted Chapter and verse well you should try reading the book of JOHN in the new Testament before you worry about the old LAWS from the Old Testament.
Oh`Ya I'm praying for you man :thumb:

 

[FireBall]

I think most Europeans(like myself) would put it is wrong. Mainly because we dont do it ourselves anymore. Playing God is not good. If God wants to wipe someone out he can (Annanias and Saphira). I guess its a little bit like slavery at a time when slavery was taking place most christians would say its ok now that it is not everyone says its wrong.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by FireBall
I think most Europeans(like myself) would put it is wrong. Mainly because we dont do it ourselves anymore. Playing God is not good. If God wants to wipe someone out he can (Annanias and Saphira). I guess its a little bit like slavery at a time when slavery was taking place most christians would say its ok now that it is not everyone says its wrong.

Fireball, welcome to TOL! You've really hit the ground running today.

I agree with you that people's idea of what is right or wrong is often influences by the law of the land. You admit that you think the death penalty is wrong "Mainly because we [Europeans] dont do it ourselves anymore." That is the same reasoning that led many Christians to accept slavery when the government condoned it.

From your other posts, I gather that you are a Christian that the Bible is inspired by God. So, what is God's opinion of the death penalty, according to the Bible? Shouldn't we look to the Bible to determine what is right and wrong? If God has ordered that governments should execute people for committing certain crimes, then obeying Him is not "playing God," it is submitting to His will.

By the way, here in the US murderers as seldomly executed, and when they do it is carried out years later rather than swiftly. Yet I and many other Christians believe that EVERY convicted murderer should be put to death by the government, and that it is important to carry out the execution swiftly. We do not get this idea from our country's laws, but from the God of the Bible.

Please reconsider this issue, seeking out God's opinion instead of current norms.

 

[bmyers]

Originally posted by Turbo
From your other posts, I gather that you are a Christian that the Bible is inspired by God. So, what is God's opinion of the death penalty, according to the Bible? Shouldn't we look to the Bible to determine what is right and wrong? If God has ordered that governments should execute people for committing certain crimes, then obeying Him is not "playing God," it is submitting to His will.

By the way, here in the US murderers as seldomly executed, and when they do it is carried out years later rather than swiftly. Yet I and many other Christians believe that EVERY convicted murderer should be put to death by the government, and that it is important to carry out the execution swiftly. We do not get this idea from our country's laws, but from the God of the Bible.

Please reconsider this issue, seeking out God's opinion instead of current norms.

However, even if one were coming from a Christian, Biblical perspective, I would add the caution that you should be very certain that the passages you cite actually authorize the imposition of the death penalty by governments, etc., as opposed to simply being statements that God himself will consider death warranted in such cases. The difference, of course, would be that while God would presumably be incapable of incorrectly assigning guilt, a human justice system is clearly all too capable of such errors.

I'm not opposed to the death penalty per se; however, on these grounds, I am very concerned when I see proposals to extend the death penalty beyond where it currently applies, to lesser offenses, or for doing away with the controls on it that we currently have, which help ensure that it is imposed only in those cases where guilt of a capital crime is certain. It is a very, very serious business to put the state in charge of determining whether an individual lives or dies; it is not something to be done lightly, or to be applied with undue haste.

 

[FireBall]

Thanks Turbo

I do belive it is ok to kill i.e at war in defence of the nation ect
But not to murder.

Although can we ever be 100% sure that they are the person who did it and how do we decide who has the authority to carry it out?

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by FireBall
Thanks Turbo

I do belive it is ok to kill i.e at war in defence of the nation ect
But not to murder.

Yep! You are correct my friend.

 

[Gerald]

Originally posted by nomik
Hey I got an Idea :idea: "WHY DON'T YOU READ :read: THE WORD OF GOD" (which is the BIBLE)<--:readthis:

Already done it, more than once, wasn't impressed.

"THEN FAST & PRAY ABOUT IT" ( you know pray about GOD opening your eye's & heart to the truth).

All fasting does is make one hallucinate (just curious: what's the longest you've ever fasted? I mean not taking in anything, not even water...). One other thing: my heart can't be opened, because I don't one...

Oh`Ya I'm praying for you man :thumb:

Just out of curiosity, what is the exact wording that you are using?

 

[nomik]

I'm not opposed to the death penalty

I'm not opposed to the death penalty

Originally posted by bmyers

I'm not opposed to the death penalty per se; however, on these grounds, I am very concerned when I see proposals to extend the death penalty beyond where it currently applies, to lesser offenses, or for doing away with the controls on it that we currently have, which help ensure that it is imposed only in those cases where guilt of a capital crime is certain. It is a very, very serious business to put the state in charge of determining whether an individual lives or dies; it is not something to be done lightly, or to be applied with undue haste.

I agree with you that it shouldn't be taken lightly & I don't think it should be extend beyond where it currently applies.

"It is full of flaws at it's current state, like all things run by human."

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by bmyers
However, even if one were coming from a Christian, Biblical perspective, I would add the caution that you should be very certain that the passages you cite actually authorize the imposition of the death penalty by governments, etc., as opposed to simply being statements that God himself will consider death warranted in such cases.

Can you give an example or two?

The difference, of course, would be that while God would presumably be incapable of incorrectly assigning guilt, a human justice system is clearly all too capable of such errors.

God laid out guidelines for establishing guilt. Do you think the judges in those days were not prone to error?

 

[nomik]

what is the [i]exact wording[/i] that you are using?

what is the exact wording that you are using?

Originally posted by Gerald
Already done it, more than once, wasn't impressed..

I also said,you should try reading the book of JOHN in the new Testament before you worry about the old LAWS from the Old Testament.

Did you ? It's one thing to read just to read & another thing to read as in to gather intellingence.
Do you like plato's writting?

All fasting does is make one hallucinate (just curious: what's the longest you've ever fasted?
I mean not taking in anything, not even water...)..

not even water "48 hours", but when I fast I usually drink water at night if I fast during the week because I work construction. But I read my bible during meal time because of Matt.4:4
I have never hallucinated while fasting where ever you heard that from was wrong atleast in my case I have never hallucinated,Has any other Christian?I don't know I speak only of my self.

One other thing: my heart can't be opened, because I don't one...

You don't what?. . . Want to?

Just out of curiosity, what is the exact wording that you are using?

:darwinsm: NOMIK's wording of course :shut:

 

[bmyers]

Originally posted by Turbo
God laid out guidelines for establishing guilt. Do you think the judges in those days were not prone to error?

No, of course not. And please note that I specifically said that I am not opposed to the death penalty per se; I just want to caution against taking it lightly.

 

[Turbo]

OK, but I don't know who does take it lightly. It seems more common that people are overly cautious about it. Do you see how that can also be problematic?

 

[FireBall]

Nomik - I have never hallucinated while fasting. That is just the worlds view see the thread on David Blaine. Pschologists predicted he would hallucinate. I belive you can have a vision from God while fasting but not hallucinations which have no point.

Turbo - There is a balance to everything. However when it comes to life and removing it we need to be a 100% sure that we are right which is very rarely the case.