The "Church" at Acts 2 is NOT the Body of Christ

marhig

Well-known member
:) No doubt others can definitely see what goes on around forums such as this. Such people are only fooling themselves because it is really all about self-assurance: they know they are weak in what they believe because they know that the foundation for what they believe is itself weak. But as for EE I was not saying you were persecuting him; perhaps you misunderstood what I meant by "persecution syndrome", that is to say, be careful not to go around imagining yourself as "the persecuted" just because people call you names and blaspheme what and whom you believe, (Messiah and his Testimony). That really is not "persecution" but it sure feels good to tell ourselves that such is the case. However that will not convince anyone of anything other than that you might just be feeling sorry for yourself, (again, even though what you have said is true). I simply meant not to take it as such but to see it for what it truly is: people with a lack of confidence in what they believe who feel the need to lash out because you may have offended them to the very core of what they believe to be true. But then I also understand, as you have no doubt seen elsewhere, there are others who label everyone who disagrees with them as satanic devil's children and viper's offspring: that type I find more comical than anything else, once in a while it is worth it just to flyby and poke 'em with a stick and watch the flame war that ensues, (hehe). I have learned not to even take those kind seriously or personally because to them everyone outside of their sphere is the devil.

Oh right, I've got you now, but I definitely don't take it to heart, I did at first, because I've only ever been to our house meetings, and although they are straight talking, they don't say the kind of things that are said on here, so I had a shock that people who say that they believe in God would speak to others the way they do. But, I've toughened up now :)

And I know that they can only touch our flesh, and their can't touch our heart or the life within us and I know that the way I believe is the truth. So I don't take it personally, and at the end of the day, they have no say whatsoever as to where any of us are going when we die, as much as they like the think that they do!. :)

So they can say what they like about me, and I take it on the chin :) they are probably right anyway at times, my flesh is a disgrace, it's only by the grace of God that I'm getting the strength to overcome, without God and Christ I'd be a totally different person. But I can't stand by and let them at things that aren't true in God. And I also find it hard to keep quiet when I see them pick at others.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Daqq,

Once you said that timelessness separated God the Father from God the Son. Your acknowledged that Jesus was God in timelessness. You had this discussion with me when I was "NIG".

You had to go outside the 66 book cannon to revert to where you are now. What is so upsetting about God being humble enough to lay His life down in flesh for us?


I have not changed my stance from what I said there:


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How do you get around Rev. 22 when verses 12 - 13 have the Alpha and Omega speaking, and then 16 reveals that it is Jesus talking?

I have no need "to get around it" because everything Messiah claims in those passages concerns one extraordinary element and that element is called TIME. Concerning everything inside of time Messiah Yeshua is the Master; but when all things are subdued, then comes the Telos, the End, the Point aimed at, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom unto Elohim, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is Death. For "He has put all things under his feet." But when He says, all things are put under him, it is manifest that He, the Father, is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that the Father may be all in all. As for Alpha and Omega, like Father like Son, that is not a problem for me because Messiah is the only begotten Elohim, (not born of a physical woman).

Excellent!

And then again, you are marking things by time.

Interesting approach.

Perhaps I misjudged the write up.

So you acknowledge that Jesus was and is, but are differentiating between the Father and Son?

Revelation 22:13
13 εγω το αλφα και το ω ο πρωτος και ο εσχατος η αρχη και το τελος


πρωτος = Protos = First
εσχατος = Eschatos = Last
αρχη = Arche = Beginning ~ Commencement
τελος = Telos = End ~ Point Aimed At

Sorry to inform you but outside of time there is no first, last, beginning, or end. You have a Messenger sent into this realm to lead you back to the Father: follow him back to the Father, (His Word does not return to Him void). :)

So you indeed acknowledge Jesus as God, but are expressing the unique difference between the Father and the Son?

How can the Right Arm of YHWH not be God? And to whom has the Arm of YHWH been revealed? However the Right Arm of YHWH does whatsoever YHWH commands him to do, (and he does not return to the Father void), and therefore they two are not equal. That is your Elder brother; he has never broken any of the commandments of the Father, and is ever with the Father, and all things of the Father are his, and yet when was there a sacrifice for him that he might celebrate with his fellows? You have a fatted calf slain for you, do you not? Will you not even offer up a kid of the goats for him? Do you not have a kid to offer up according to the commandment? Kiss the Son, lest he be just a little angry and you perish from the Way: blessed are all those who put their trust in the Right Arm of YHWH, mighty to save. :)

But as I also just said on the previous page: even father Abraham is an Elohim.
Thus there is a problem with the limited mainstream understanding of what elohim means. :)
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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I have not changed my stance from what I said there:

Daqq,

I will be up front... you have become a shepherd to the Arians in my time away. There is no Demi God. There is only God. If Jesus is God Beyond time... and has always existed... then He is fully God.

Persecution complex and talking about mad is all a side bar. I'm not a scriptural retard, regurgitating what others have told me or any other measure. When I was NIG... I made peace with everyone and bit my lip quite a bit. I could sense Arian tension in that conversation and thus I jumped at partial peace.

You have not explained what Rm. 8:9 means to you. Also, Israel will be the victim of horrible attack in the future and things will get bad... in the future. You quoted insignificant scripture to explain why Acts 1:11-12 says something and you don't take it at it's written value. I could "spiritualize" every word of the Bible, but some of it is straight forward and simple. Zechariah and Joel dovetail into Revelation.

Know this... false Messiah will precede the real Messiah. Be weary brother, that your "little flock" doesn't feal they are right, simply because they are told they are wrong. Being corrected in scriptural error isn't persecution. Meshak makes anti salvational assurance threads and goes further to disrupt anyone who is counter to her limited doctrinal understanding that is without biblical root.

She is not a trustworthy person. She is using you for her simple purposes. As for the other Jehovah's witnesses that are here... I can assure you that they and you take issue with salvational assurance that comes from faith that yields saving grace.

You speak in riddles by spiritualizing and complicating matters. But you are not gathering what is being said by people like myself and Jerry. You act like you know the testimony of Jesus... but do you know that "testimony" is the actual "Presence" (Rm. 8:9) of God within us? Again... what does Romans 8:9 mean to you?
 

meshak

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Hi Daqq :) the pharasees also said that what Jesus preached was the doctrine of demons! So as I always say, we're in good company! You speak the truth, there is only one God and he is the father, and Jesus who is the Christ is his son.

You are the winner too. go Mary:first:
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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You are the winner too. go Mary:first:

Daqq knows I am actually humble. You are not doing these things for ill. But you're r stirring up strife in matters that are important and you are not serving God. Your posts of late are very dangerous. You are hurting the message.
 
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meshak

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Daqq knows I am actually humble. You are not doing these things for ill. But your stirring up strife in matters that are important and you are not serving God. Your posts of late are very dangerous. You are hurting the message.

I have a sense of humor.:)

No matter how much you use flattery tactic, you cannot fool good ones.:)

blessings.
 

meshak

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Banned
Persecution complex and talking about mad is all a side bar.

Her you go again, the usual excuse. When you get refuted badly you guys cry out "persecution complex" or "victim syndrome".

It is pathetic, dear.

You are the ones who have "persecution complex". You guys are sore losers.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Did anyone notice that after reading through the hundreds and hundreds of words written by those who deny that the Lord Jesus is God not one of those words spoke about this passage?:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

Their silence speaks volumes!
 

daqq

Well-known member
Daqq,

I will be up up front... you have become a shepherd to the Arians in my time away. There is no Demi God. There is only God. If Jesus is God Beyond time... and has always existed... then He is fully God.


The last time you were here my Adoptionist thread, "This day have I begotten you", was already here. What I believe to be true has been no secret. And what I said to you about Elohim is also true, take it or leave it, but the truth will not be changing for you. Elohim can be Angels, Judges, heathen gods, and even a godly seed, ("elohim seed", Malachi 2:15, which has to do with the parable of the sower, the infancy narratives, and how one is born from above). The problem you run into, if you do not heed this warning, is exactly what you have already done; for Yeshua teaches that those to whom the Word of Elohim has come are called Elohim, (John 10:34-35 quoting Psalm 82:6). Has the Word of Elohim come to you? Do you claim to have Messiah dwelling in you? You just did in the post I am quoting. But the same passage from that Psalm says that you shall die like an adam and fall as one of the sariym-princes. Did Yeshua die like a man and fall as a Sar-Prince? Yes, he did. And in addition to that Yeshua was not ashamed to call those willing to become sanctified his brethren. Therefore when you make Yeshua into the Father, or elevate him to equal status as the Father, you by default make the Father your brother and exalt yourself to Almighty Elohim status because by default you say that the Father over all is your brother! And this you already confessed a page or two back in this thread! How can you not see the error in your thinking? Likewise the Father cannot die and never did and never will.


Persecution complex and talking about mad is all a side bar. I'm not a scriptural retard, regurgitating what others have told me or any other measure. When I was NIG... I made peace with everyone and bit my lip quite a bit. I could sense Arian tension in that conversation and thus I jumped at partial peace.

You have not explained what Rm. 8:9 means to you. Also, Israel will be the victim of horrible attack in the future and things will get bad... in the future. You quoted insignificant scripture to explain why Acts 1:11-12 says something and you don't take it at it's written value. I could "spiritualized" every word of the Bible, but some of it is straight forward and simple. Zechariah and Joel dovetail into Revelation.


Sorry but it simply is not possible to go into the depth of those things with someone who rejects the Spirit of the Word. We simply have two completely polar opposite mindsets; but I know which one is right because I walked in your mindset for thirty years until my completely unexpected appointed times came upon me like a thief in the night.


Know this... false Messiah will precede the real Messiah.


Yeah, I know all that now, and about the old man, and he is not who you imagine. :chuckle:


Be weary brother, that your "little flock" doesn't deal they are right, simply because they are told they are wrong. Being corrected in scriptural error isn't persecution.


In the doctrine of the Master I already shepherd my flock with a rod of iron, (Torah). If a right hand or foot gets out of line I cut them off and cast them from me: three evil shepherds I cut off in one year; a right eye that was utterly darkened, a right arm that was clean dried up, and a foot that was always running swiftly into mischief. As I said, you will never be ruling over "lesser brethren sheeples" in a literal thousand year global empire kingdom of Elohim as you appear to imagine. Both the Gospel and the kingdom are about you and your house-body-temple-congregation, the "members" of your own household, (understand the parables). I will pray the Father send my brother Titon to set your house in order: yea, Titos the comforter, he will comfort you upon his parousia. :chuckle:


Meshak makes anti salvation all assurance threads and goes further to disrupt anyone who is counter to her limited doctrinal understanding.

She is not a trustworthy person. She is using you for her simple purposes. As for the other Jehovah's witnesses that are here... I can assure you that they and you take issue with salvation all assurance that comes from faith that yields saving grace.


Why does everyone try to get me to gang up with them against those whom they consider their enemies? How do you know Meshak has not said the same about you?


You speak in riddles by spiritualizing and complicating matters. But you are not gathering what is being said by people like myself and Jerry. You act like you know the testimony of Jesus... but do you know that "testimony" is the actual "Presence" (Rm. 8:9) of God within us?


The Testimony of Messiah is the Spirit of the New Covenant, the Living Water, even the Blood of our Covenant, and the very Spirit of Grace, and these things are one and they do Testify. Anyone not having and holding the full Testimony of Yeshua in uprightness and truth neither has Holy Spirit nor has the blood of Messiah because that Testimony is the Spirit and the water and the blood. The reason why is because that holy Testimony which Yeshua received from the heavens, (without measure from the Father), he paid for with his own blood at Golgotha: his very Testimony is why they crucified him, and hanged him on a tree; and that Testimony Gift he gave and shared freely, so that we too might receive it in thanksgiving and carry it out within ourselves and in our own walk so as to become pleasing to the Father by way of that same Testimony which He gave to His only begotten Son, (the Father sealed this one and only Testimony). Sorry to say that you do not appear to have and hold the Testimony of Yeshua in uprightness and truth; not the way your doctrine reads from where I stand. You feel that you get to pick and choose what is "spiritual" and what you will take as literal, (which in your case really means carnal even though SPIRIT is literal and cannot be moved), but this choosing of yours alone is proven false by the very fact that nowhere does Yeshua ever say that cutting off your right hand or foot is a parable. You choose wisely to believe that it is but when you do so you nullify your own argument for how you decide what else is "spiritual" and what is "literal" in meaning because those statements are never said to be parables, proverbs, or idioms. I'm not saying anyone should literally cut their own hand off, (I've actually had people accuse me of saying that, lol), but what I am saying is the very fact that you have absolutely nothing but an emphatic statement in the form of a commandment, without any indication whatsoever that the statement is a proverb or parable, should tell you that what Yeshua says elsewhere about his words being SPIRIT remains true throughout his Testimony: not just where *you* decide what will be allegory and what will be literal. You are walking with one foot in the Spirit and one foot in the world of the flesh. I cannot tell you how many times that has put me into the ditch but I know you wouldn't listen even if I could count the times. :)
 

daqq

Well-known member
Did anyone notice that after reading through the hundreds and hundreds of words written by those who deny that the Lord Jesus is God not one of those words spoke about this passage?:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

Their silence speaks volumes!

Did anyone notice that Jerry Shugart completely ignored all of that background information which was just posted concerning his above quote on the previous page in Reply #370 which encompasses two other threads which are full of even more information?

Not only does his silence speak volumes but it is golden! :)
 

daqq

Well-known member
Did anyone notice that after reading through the hundreds and hundreds of words written by those who deny that the Lord Jesus is God not one of those words spoke about this passage?:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

Their silence speaks volumes!

Besides that Jerry all you are doing is quoting a single passage or two and proclaiming that it proves your bold emphatic statement which is nothing more than a theory. Anyone can do that. When you can post a full exegesis including all of the relevant passages, including those from the Tanakh, and prove your point that way, then you will get lots of attention, and I am quite sure not only from me. But you refuse to do that and you place the burden on others to refute your blind emphatic statements with scripture quotes ripped from their contexts. I do not need to do any such thing because you have not proven anything to begin with. If you really believe you are correct then do the work, prove it with context and all relevant passages, and post all of it in one place so that it can be taken apart. What should you be afraid of it what you say is true? :)
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Banned
The last time you were here my Adoptionist thread, "This day have I begotten you", was already here. What I believe to be true has been no secret. And what I said to you about Elohim is also true, take it or leave it, but the truth will not be changing for you. Elohim can be Angels, Judges, heathen gods, and even a godly seed, ("elohim seed", Malachi 2:15, which has to do with the parable of the sower, the infancy narratives, and how one is born from above). The problem you run into, if you do not heed this warning, is exactly what you have already done; for Yeshua teaches that those to whom the Word of Elohim has come are called Elohim, (John 10:34-35 quoting Psalm 82:6). Has the Word of Elohim come to you? Do you claim to have Messiah dwelling in you? You just did in the post I am quoting. But the same passage from that Psalm says that you shall die like an adam and fall as one of the sariym-princes. Did Yeshua die like a man and fall as a Sar-Prince? Yes, he did. And in addition to that Yeshua was not ashamed to call those willing to become sanctified his brethren. Therefore when you make Yeshua into the Father, or elevate him to equal status as the Father, you by default make the Father your brother and exalt yourself to Almighty Elohim status because by default you say that the Father over all is your brother! And this you already confessed a page or two back in this thread! How can you not see the error in your thinking? Likewise the Father cannot die and never did and never will.





Sorry but it simply is not possible to go into the depth of those things with someone who rejects the Spirit of the Word. We simply have two completely polar opposite mindsets; but I know which one is right because I walked in your mindset for thirty years until my completely unexpected appointed times came upon me like a thief in the night.





Yeah, I know all that now, and about the old man, and he is not who you imagine. :chuckle:





In the doctrine of the Master I already shepherd my flock with a rod of iron, (Torah). If a right hand or foot gets out of line I cut them off and cast them from me: three evil shepherds I cut off in one year; a right eye that was utterly darkened, a right arm that was clean dried up, and a foot that was always running swiftly into mischief. As I said, you will never be ruling over "lesser brethren sheeples" in a literal thousand year global empire kingdom of Elohim as you appear to imagine. Both the Gospel and the kingdom are about you and your house-body-temple-congregation, the "members" of your own household, (understand the parables). I will pray the Father send my brother Titon to set your house in order: yea, Titos the comforter, he will comfort you upon his parousia. :chuckle:





Why does everyone try to get me to gang up with them against those whom they consider their enemies? How do you know Meshak has not said the same about you?





The Testimony of Messiah is the Spirit of the New Covenant, the Living Water, even the Blood of our Covenant, and the very Spirit of Grace, and these things are one and they do Testify. Anyone not having and holding the full Testimony of Yeshua in uprightness and truth neither has Holy Spirit nor has the blood of Messiah because that Testimony is the Spirit and the water and the blood. The reason why is because that holy Testimony which Yeshua received from the heavens, (without measure from the Father), he paid for with his own blood at Golgotha: his very Testimony is why they crucified him, and hanged him on a tree; and that Testimony Gift he gave and shared freely, so that we too might receive it in thanksgiving and carry it out within ourselves and in our own walk so as to become pleasing to the Father by way of that same Testimony which He gave to His only begotten Son, (the Father sealed this one and only Testimony). Sorry to say that you do not appear to have and hold the Testimony of Yeshua in uprightness and truth; not the way your doctrine reads from where I stand. You feel that you get to pick and choose what is "spiritual" and what you will take as literal, (which in your case really means carnal even though SPIRIT is literal and cannot be moved), but this choosing of yours alone is proven false by the very fact that nowhere does Yeshua ever say that cutting off your right hand or foot is a parable. You choose wisely to believe that it is but when you do so you nullify your own argument for how you decide what else is "spiritual" and what is "literal" in meaning because those statements are never said to be parables, proverbs, or idioms. I'm not saying anyone should literally cut their own hand off, (I've actually had people accuse me of saying that, lol), but what I am saying is the very fact that you have absolutely nothing but an emphatic statement in the form of a commandment, without any indication whatsoever that the statement is a proverb or parable, should tell you that what Yeshua says elsewhere about his words being SPIRIT remains true throughout his Testimony: not just where *you* decide what will be allegory and what will be literal. You are walking with one foot in the Spirit and one foot in the world of the flesh. I cannot tell you how many times that has put me into the ditch but I know you wouldn't listen even if I could count the times. :)

Romans 8:9 shatters your biblical assertions. God dwells in us, His children... period. You are now side stepping scripture.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Besides that Jerry all you are doing is quoting a single passage or two and proclaiming that it proves your bold emphatic statement which is nothing more than a theory.

That is not the only passage I quoted from the Revelation to prove that the Lord Jesus is God and you know it. Once again, all you do is give excuses why you refuse to deal with what is said here by the Lord Jesus:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last"
(Rev.22:12-13).​
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Banned
Besides that Jerry all you are doing is quoting a single passage or two and proclaiming that it proves your bold emphatic statement which is nothing more than a theory. Anyone can do that. When you can post a full exegesis including all of the relevant passages, including those from the Tanakh, and prove your point that way, then you will get lots of attention, and I am quite sure not only from me. But you refuse to do that and you place the burden on others to refute your blind emphatic statements with scripture quotes ripped from their contexts. I do not need to do any such thing because you have not proven anything to begin with. If you really believe you are correct then do the work, prove it with context and all relevant passages, and post all of it in one place so that it can be taken apart. What should you be afraid of it what you say is true? :)

[MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION]... it is well known that the entire gospel of John Declares Jesus Christ God Incarnate. So... you are literally going to massive lengths to twist the matter. Romans 8:9 Daqq plus you acknowledged Jesus could be God outside time.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Sorry but it simply is not possible to go into the depth of those things with someone who rejects the Spirit of the Word. We simply have two completely polar opposite mindsets; but I know which one is right because I walked in your mindset for thirty years until my completely unexpected appointed times came upon me like a thief in the night.



Yeah, I know all that now, and about the old man, and he is not who you imagine. :chuckle:

:cheers:
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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That is not the only passage I quoted from the Revelation to prove that the Lord Jesus is God and you know it. Once again, all you do is give excuses why you refuse to deal with what is said here by the Lord Jesus:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last"
(Rev.22:12-13).​

[MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION]... it is well known that the entire gospel of John Declares Jesus Christ God Incarnate. So... you are literally going to massive lengths to twist the matter. Romans 8:9 Daqq plus you acknowledged Jesus could be God outside time.
 

daqq

Well-known member
@daqq... it is well known that the entire gospel of John Declares Jesus Christ God Incarnate. So... you are literally going to massive lengths to twist the matter. Romans 8:9 Daqq plus you acknowledged Jesus could be God outside time.

The supreme logic set forth by Yeshua himself from in the Gospel of John has been posted to Jerry at least six times now: where were you and why did you not answer? You did not answer for the same reason Jerry will not answer: because you know you cannot openly refute the Testimony of Yeshua and still call yourself his follower. So what do people like you and Jerry do? Ignore such things and hope nobody notices that you never answered. But you see the more you argue such things with me the more these simple truths are going to come out and the less excuse you are going to have for rejecting the Testimony of Messiah. Yeshua plainly tells you that he is neither the Logos nor the Judge, for he judges no one, and he plainly says that his words are not going to pass away. Search it, simple systematic logic from the plain Testimony of Messiah, and where you find it you will see Jerry there, and likely find that you yourself were there at the same time and allowed what I said to pass you by once again. While you are at it I have already given my understanding of Rom 8:9, Gen 1:2, and Ruach Elohim and Ruach Meshiah and number of times. What I believe and told you already in this thread is built on it; for in the header of the Sefer you will find Ruach Elohim brooding upon the waters like a Dove.
 

daqq

Well-known member
The supreme logic set forth by Yeshua himself from in the Gospel of John has been posted to Jerry at least six times now: where were you and why did you not answer? You did not answer for the same reason Jerry will not answer: because you know you cannot openly refute the Testimony of Yeshua and still call yourself his follower. So what do people like you and Jerry do? Ignore such things and hope nobody notices that you never answered. But you see the more you argue such things with me the more these simple truths are going to come out and the less excuse you are going to have for rejecting the Testimony of Messiah. Yeshua plainly tells you that he is neither the Logos nor the Judge, for he judges no one, and he plainly says that his words are not going to pass away. Search it, simple systematic logic from the plain Testimony of Messiah, and where you find it you will see Jerry there, and likely find that you yourself were there at the same time and allowed what I said to pass you by once again.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...900625&highlight=systematic+logic#post4900625
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...897478&highlight=systematic+logic#post4897478
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...886371&highlight=systematic+logic#post4886371
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...887551&highlight=systematic+logic#post4887551
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...788684&highlight=systematic+logic#post4788684
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...888962&highlight=systematic+logic#post4888962
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...914608&highlight=systematic+logic#post4914608

This is not counting the two or three times this same information from the Testimony of Yeshua was posted in "the Trinity" thread, which I am now banned from entering or posting in, (and therefore cannot post the links because I cannot open them to confirm that this is what is there but I know this was posted there at least twice). And you too are now without excuse Evil.Eye. :)
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Yeshua plainly tells you that he is neither the Logos nor the Judge, for he judges no one, and he plainly says that his words are not going to pass away.

The Lord Jesus was not judging anyone while He walked the earth because he was sent to save the world and not to judge the world:

"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him" (Jn.3:17).​

However, in the future He will indeed be the Judge. Peter says this about the Lord Jesus:

"Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly...And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead" (Acts 10:40,42).​

Paul says this:

"In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel"(Ro.2:16).​

You prove that you know very little about the Lord and Savior. And of course you continue to run and hide from these words of the Lord Jesus which prove that He is God Almighty:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​
 

daqq

Well-known member
The Lord Jesus was not judging anyone while He walked the earth because he was sent to save the world and not to judge the world:
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him" (Jn.3:17).​

However, in the future He will indeed be the Judge. Peter says this about the Lord Jesus:
"Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly...And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead" (Acts 10:40,42).​

Paul says this:
"In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel"(Ro.2:16).​

You prove that you know very little about the Lord and Savior. And of course you continue to run and hide from these words of the Lord Jesus which prove that He is God Almighty:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

Since you have now hardened your heart these six times more shall be added to what has already been said to you from the Testimony of Yeshua, (so that hopefully one day the Stone which the builders rejected will grind your false doctrine to powder so that you might see, hear, and live). If you are going to capitalize "Logos" or "Word" in John 1:1, (even if only in your mind as you read), then you must be willing to do the same anywhere else in the same Gospel account where "Logos" or "Word" is critical to the understanding of the overall doctrine. Otherwise you are simply engaging in what is called special pleading. You cannot say it should only be capitalized in some places while ignoring the same exact critical word in other critical places where it refutes your overall doctrine:

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Logos-Word, and the Logos-Word was with the Elohim, and the Logos-Word was Elohim:


Here again is the supreme systematic logic behind what I say, Jerry Shugart, again taken straight from the Testimony of Yeshua himself in the very same Gospel account which you use to supposedly prove that the man Yeshua or Jesus is "God Almighty born into human flesh", or that, "Jesus is JHWH", as you say. But when we take certain key statements of the Master himself, as follows, your error is clearly exposed by the Testimony of Yeshua himself. We who actually believe the Testimony of Yeshua know he says that the heavens and the earth shall pass away, but his words will not pass away, (Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33), and therefore none of these words which follow are ever going to change or pass away: never ever. The first key statement is that Yeshua says his words are SPIRIT and if you follow the logic laid out in sequence from the statements below there is absolutely no denying the outcome of these clear emphatic statements unless you simply are not a follower and believer of these words and statements of the Master Teacher himself. If you reject them again, and you continue, then you simply are not one of his.

The words of Yeshua are Spirit:

John 6:62-63
62 What then if you should behold the Son of Man ascending up [to] where he was before?
63 It is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you,
they are Spirit, and they are Life.

The Father judges no one but has committed all judgment to the Son:

John 5:22
22. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

The man Yeshua does not testify of himself and therefore cannot claim to be God:

John 5:31
31 If I testify of myself, my testimony is not true.


The man Yeshua emphatically states that he himself judges no one:

John 8:15
15. You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

There is only one who judges and he is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 8:50
50. And I seek not mine own glory: one there is, the Seeker and Judge. [Rev 2:23]

The Logos-Word which the man Yeshua speaks is not his own:

John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the Logos-Word which you hear is not of me, but of the Father who sent me.

The Logos-Word is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the Logos-Word that I have spoken, that one shall judge him in the last day.

Revelation 19:11-16
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called
Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no one knew but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood:
and his name is called The Logos-Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written,
KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

The Son of Elohim and Son of Man is the Logos-Word who descended from the heavens in somatiko-corporeal-bodily form like a dove, Luke 3:22, and abode-remained upon-within the man Yeshua throughout his ministry and Golgotha. No one has seen Elohim at any time, (John 1:18a, 1John 4:12a), because spoken word cannot be seen with the eyes of the flesh. The new-renewed Covenant "new Spirit" of Ezekiel 11:19, 18:31, 36:26, and John 7:39, is thus the most holy Word of the Testimony of Messiah Yeshua. Anyone claiming to have "the Holy Spirit" but not having and upholding the Testimony of Messiah in uprightness and truth is therefore deceived.

If one is simply willing to follow the very simple and straightforward systematic flow of the logic in the above statements then Yeshua himself clearly defines who the Logos concerns: the Logos is not the man Yeshua himself but rather the Logos is the Logos-Word which the man Yeshua speaks. This is true because, as I keep saying, Testimony is Spirit, and that is why the Son of Elohim is also called the Son of man: for he was both written and spoken by man, and therefore he is the Son of man, for Testimony is Spirit, (your testimony is therefore your son; beware your testimony not become a son of perdition). But the Son was in the beginning with the Father and the Father gave him to mankind, (the Light and the Testimony of the Truth).

The Father judges no one. The man Yeshua judges no one. The Testimony of Yeshua will not pass away. The Logos is the Seeker and the Judge, the Son of Elohim, and the Son of man, and because he is the Word of Truth which is spoken by men of faithfulness and truth; he is considered a little lower than the Messengers, (because they speak him, because he is in them).

Once again the Testimony of Yeshua:

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the LOGOS-WORD that I have spoken, THAT ONE shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

The Father judges no one, (John 5:22).
The man Yeshua judges no one, (John 8:15, John 12:47-48).
The Father has committed all judgment unto the Son, (John 5:22).
The man Yeshua does not testify concerning himself, (John 5:31).
The man Yeshua testifies concerning the Son.
The Son is therefore the only Judge.

The Father is not the Judge.
The man Yeshua is not the Judge.
The Logos-Word that Yeshua spoke is the Judge.
The man Yeshua therefore cannot be the Logos-Word.
The Logos-Word is the only begotten Elohim-Son of Elohim, (John 1:18).

The Son of Elohim and Son of Man is the Logos-Word who descended from the heavens in somatiko-corporeal-bodily form like a dove, Luke 3:22, and abode-remained upon-within the man Yeshua throughout his ministry and Golgotha. No one has seen Elohim at any time, (John 1:18a, 1John 4:12a), because spoken word cannot be seen with the eyes of the flesh. The new-renewed Covenant "new Spirit" of Ezekiel 11:19, 18:31, 36:26, and John 7:39, is thus the most holy Word of the Testimony of Messiah Yeshua. Anyone claiming to have "the Holy Spirit" but not having and upholding the Testimony of Messiah in uprightness and truth is therefore deceived. You Jerry Shugart therefore hold the truth in unrighteousness, just as Paul says of you and your kind in Romans 1:18, because you refuse to bow down your own freewill and submit yourself to the Testimony of Messiah and to the counsel of the Father Elohim Almighty who gave the man Yeshua that holy Testimony for which Yeshua himself paid for and purchased with his own blood at Golgotha. You trample the holy blood of the Covenant because you trample the holy Testimony of Messiah with your false doctrines even after you have been shown the truth by way of that very Spirit of Truth: the Testimony of Messiah. You are utterly without excuse.
 
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